Intel Celeron NUC vs i5 NUC

[networkcameracritic]

Sort of an odd comparison as you would think they are the same except for processor, but no. They look the same, have the same slot for a 2.5" hard drive, same dimensions. What the Celeron NUC has is WiFi (plus Ethernet) and a full size HDMI port (i5 has a mini HDMI so you need an adapter), it also has a 12V wall wort power supply vs. the power brick with the i5. It only has one RAM slot vs. 2 on the i5. Also has 3 USB ports vs. 4 on the i5.

I put it on my Kill-A-Watt meter and at 100% CPU doing updates, it was using 9.5-10.5W. Stop doing heavy CPU intensive stuff and it drops to 8W like for a web browser. It's actually pretty responsive, way better than the old Atom processors. I put 4GB RAM and a 250GB SSD drive I had lying around. Cost me $130 for the NUC, $31 for the RAM and SSD already had. Put 64-bit Win7 on it.

I'll let it get all the updates before I install Milestone XProtect Go on it and load up some cameras on there. If that does well, I can try BlueIris. When done playing, going to replace a Tivo with it. I needed the Tivo somewhere else. What's cool is it has a IR receiver built-in like it was made for that purpose. When you think my Tivo uses 35.5W and this is 10W, that's big savings, about $80-90/yr in power costs in my neck of the woods.

 

[fenderman]

Cool! Nice project....what are you using to record/tuner? I have an hd homerun prime that im loving right now. Using it with media center. I haven't tested the power consumption but a google search shows about 5-7w.

 

[networkcameracritic]

Cool! Nice project....what are you using to record/tuner? I have an hd homerun prime that im loving right now. Using it with media center. I haven't tested the power consumption but a google search shows about 5-7w.

For now, it's just OTA at home, so I'll plug in a cheapie USB tuner stick. If I put it at our lake house with cable TV, then I'll need the Prime with a cable card and their tuning adapter just like I have on the Tivo there. They now require a STB for each TV even for basic channels. I had Windows Media Center pc setup with an analog box when that was possible, but does not work anymore so will need the Prime if I decide to put it up there.

 

[fenderman]

Sux that you need their tuning adapter....With Fios i just need the cable card...

 

[networkcameracritic]

Tried it with BlueIris, total bust, 1 3MP Hikvision camera max at 45-56% CPU, two cameras pegged it and took me 10 minutes to kill BlueIris. I had 6 cameras working with Milestone XProtect GO pretty well. More details here - http://www.networkcameracritic.com/?p=2407

 

[bp2008]

Yeah I'm actually surprised it could handle a 3MP cam at 20 FPS in Blue Iris. Definitely a lot better than the old Atom netbooks, both due to the CPU and the SSD.

I have the older model of celeron NUC that is a bit slower, and it is a nice little low power PC for low power needs.

 

[Razer]

I just checked my i5 Nuc with cameras up in Exacq. I run dual monitors at 1080p so I opened two Exacq clients and put 48 cameras each up on the screens for a total of 96 cameras. The NUC ran right at 84% CPU usage and I was pulling 23.5w on my kill a watt tester. The cameras varied from analog to 5mp with roughly half being 3mp cameras by either ACTi or Hikvision. I also had my normal Outlook, Firefox, and Internet explorer running too. I love these little NUCs!

 

[bp2008]

That is pretty amazing. Analog cams typically use next to zero resources to work with since they are 1/3 of a megapixel or less. But 24 multi-megapixel cams playing back on an i5 is nothing to sneeze at!

I wonder, were they sub streams actually playing?

 

[Razer]

Main streams as I have sub streams disabled wherever possible. I did not try to pull up only IP cameras as I have so many sites and cameras it was easier to just get the first 96 that came up, yes I was being lazy.... At least 4 of them were hemispheric cameras at 5mp as they stand out due to the shape of the picture. I know I had 9 e33 actis on there and at least 7 KCM5611 2mp cameras and a dozen Hikvision 3mp on there easy. I could if someone really needed to know get only Hiks or only ACTi cameras on all 96 but I was going for general information only when I tried. I was truly suprised it was not sitting at 100% when I looked. Seems like knowing what 16 or twenty 3mp Hiks would be a useful test at least as most will not need 96 at once, I don't myself but it's fun to play with and just to know I can.

At home on my older i7 2700k I pulled up 16 cameras at the house, 9 e33 3mp cameras, two KCM 5611 2mp cameras and 5 analogs and I was at 15% CPU. Bouncing from 13 to an occasional 17 so I'll call it 15%. If we need testing on only IPs on my NUC at work let me know and I can test during the week.

 

[sprucecams]

Dumb questions? First, why disable substreams? Do they use significant CPU/memory resources?

Second, Why are they even there? Is there a use/need for them? What happens if we disable them?

Third, how I disable them on Hikvision cameras?

Many thanks.

 

[bp2008]

The sub streams are mostly so remote viewing can view without using as much CPU and bandwidth as it would take to view full size streams.

I'm not sure if you can disable them. Probably won't help anything even if you do.

 

[networkcameracritic]

You can disable them on some brands like ACTi and Dahua, pretty sure not Hikvision.

 

[Razer]

ACTi you can disable them and I normally do simply because I'm not using them. It does not help anything at all that I'm definitely aware of but I figure it's less work the processor on the camera at the very least. It may well make no difference and the camera still renders for all I know but I'm assuming it would stop working on sending and rendering the second stream. It's only a click or two when I first setup an ACTi and then I normally use that config to setup all the future cameras of that version as a base config so they are all that way.

I don't think you can disable them on the Hiks either, or if so I've never noticed. The only sub stream I've ever used is for time lapse purposes that required .jpeg or something and that was only a couple of times, otherwise for me they are useless. That's just me and the way I use my software and systems, others find them very useful.

 

[Thud]

Hi my name is Mike and I'm new to posting on the forums But I've been scouring them for tips and info for a long time. Buellwinkle of networkcameracritic, you have been a great source of info in recent times. Thanks!

I build NVR's using refurb HP 6200 Small Form Factor PC's with I5 processors or I3's if the I5's are not available and they are rock solid and unbelievably fast. You can get them for as little as $300 if you search eBay or even Tigerdirect or Newegg. I know, "refurbs" but they have been rock solid for me and you can even get them with warranty if you if you buy direct from Dell or HP. The NUC's are tiny and will work but having used these I5's for a while I think that any lesser processor would hamstring your system under any high load.

In my opinion if space is not an issue (they're 14" x 12" x 3") they're great. They do use more power than the PC's using low power mobile CPU's like the NUC's but not enough to notice at the end of the month.

I run sighthound video on up to 8 1080p cameras and CPU is never over 80%. But these are "4 core" CPUs (at least the I5's are).

If your only running 4 3mp cams you can really crank up the bitrate ,FPS and resolution and almost never pass 50% CPU load.

All this will be moot soon as Intel is releasing the "Broadwell" line of CPU's in the spring that will be as powerful as these and as thrifty and cool running as the Atom processors so if you can wait till then we will have tiny powerful (capable of running many high megapixel cameras) low power (5 watt) PC based NVR's.

Sorry to run on but this subject is really interesting to me

 

[icerabbit]

Welcome, Mike.

Good to hear about your positive experiences with them.

I see a bunch of hp midi and micro towers (non ip cam related). Some were open box from a local source (pretty much dried up, I think due to shifts to laptops & tablets & phones, less money is going to traditional computers and thus less returns for minor niggles) They have been pretty good overall, but are getting long in the tooth and feel far from as spry from back when they were new. Core i5/i7 and SSDs really shrink one's patience level.

I had the EliteDesk 800 on the short list, but couldn't quite find the price point I wanted. Similar thing with Lenovo and some others. Ultimately for my personal application, decided on ultra small for space and power considerations, and found the nuc the best value, provided you bring your own drive and os. Did take a good while though to gather all the various drivers and firmwares and go through all the little hoops & restarts.

 

[Thud]

Rufurb PC's

Welcome, Mike.

Good to hear about your positive experiences with them.

I see a bunch of hp midi and micro towers (non ip cam related). Some were open box from a local source (pretty much dried up, I think due to shifts to laptops & tablets & phones, less money is going to traditional computers and thus less returns for minor niggles) They have been pretty good overall, but are getting long in the tooth and feel far from as spry from back when they were new. Core i5/i7 and SSDs really shrink one's patience level.

I had the EliteDesk 800 on the short list, but couldn't quite find the price point I wanted. Similar thing with Lenovo and some others. Ultimately for my personal application, decided on ultra small for space and power considerations, and found the nuc the best value, provided you bring your own drive and os. Did take a good while though to gather all the various drivers and firmwares and go through all the little hoops & restarts.

Hey icerabbit,

As a newcomer I don't want to step on anyone's toes but I'm not sure I understand what you mean. It's true that PC's can slow down as you use them but that's only because of old registry entries, app installations and such, not age or wear from use. Don't believe Microsofts marketing hype. 2 year old 3rd Gen I5 PC's are supercomputers where NVR's are concerned. If you do a clean Windows install they run as they did on day one. You do need to have at least 4Gb of RAM -better yet 8Gb so you don't get "Hard faults", at least a Terabyte 7200rpm HDD and a fresh Windows install. You have to remove any bloatware and optimize network settings -enable Large Packets etc- but 3rd generation I5 PC's are overkill for an NVR. Name brand NVR's for example use much, much less powerful hardware.

Again I don't want to step on any toes but I don't understand what you mean by "Core i5/i7 and SSDs really shrink one's patience level". When you use a PC the CPU or HDD is not apparent to the user other than performance. It's not any more difficult to configure an I5 or I7 system than a system with an Atom or low power dual core like the NUC other than it will take much longer on an Atom with a lower rpm HDD. I do use good old "spinning platters" only because of price. I only wish I could afford to use 1TB SSD's. They are phenomenal. No need for raid. The 2.5" HHD's used in NUC's are usually only 5400rpm and their is no room in a NUC for additional HDD's. They're also limited to lower powered mobile processors because they have to use passive cooling- no fan. If they do use more powerful processor they normally use a 80mm fan because of their small size so it's got to spin really fast -and loud. If you have 1 square foot to spare in your house- or 1/4 that if you stand it up, a micro ATX PC offers more expansion, better thermals, less noise and the more options for less expensive more powerful CPU's. $350 plus NVR Software cost for an NVR that is this powerful is- to me- amazing.

NUC's are positioned to be perfect NVR's, but I don't think they will be viable until Intel releases the "Broadwell" CPU's next year-they run at less than 6 WATTS and are as powerful as these I5's! But then we will have to wait for the price to drop. This won't happen for at least a year. I can't wait!

Sorry, NUC's are great for HTPC's or for an NVR with a few low bitrate, mid res, low fps cams but not up to real duty NVR's in my opinion.

So, that's my rant!

If I can offer any advice about PC NVR's I would be happy to! Thanks and Hi all!

To illustrate my point here's an image of the interior of a typical NVR. Not alot of hardware in there.

 

[icerabbit]

Thud,

Sorry to cause a lengthy reply.

What I tried to say - in general, unrelated to nuc / nvr - was that, when a user (me) 's primary systems are quad Core i5/i7 with fast SSDs and boatloads of RAM, the user (me) gets spoiled by instant/fast boot times, app loading, searches, etc. and that as a result, a user's perception of what is "normal" changes, and his/her patience shrinks for startup times, load times, transfer times, etc. What used to be standard fare for start-up and regular operation response, feels down-right sluggish. When I'm at an older system these days, I seem to be less patient than I used to be.

Kind of like being used to having instant warm shower water, moving to another place and standing there ready to shower but having to wait 90secs for the hot water to come from the other side of the house.

Yes, I could throw more RAM at the older systems, reset to factory condition, etc., but, then I've got to spend several hours configuring, adding software, drivers, windows sp, windows updates, hotfixes, etc. to get the same old system back to where it should be, and it still wouldn't be as responsive as a more current gen system. Maybe it'll be 10-20% more responsive than it runs now? ...

In that regard I'm thinking it smarter / better use of my time and everybody's productivity; to get more up to date hardware; and better value to get some open box business units, pre-configure, swap in, migrate some files, start using them. I'd considered more nucs but some previous year sff or usff will do. Get newer kit up and running. Deal with the old afterwards. Retire them with a reset to factory, scrub & donate.

There will always be more power for less, better & faster this and that etc. but at some point you can't just keep waiting. For me, getting the new nuc going as an nvr this spring has been great. There's point of diminishing returns as far as the next gen reducing power consumption even further and 2 gens later even further. Once you're at current nuc level, you're ahead of the game in power, speed and space savings; when you down from a couple hundred watts tower to a two dozen watt nuc.