IPC-HDW5442T-ZE New cam from Dahua :)

greymanlife said:
Are all PTZ turrets always a lot bigger like these:
Click to expand...
That is a PTZ cam, not a turret cam.
Terminology:
Turret DSC_4599.JPG AKA Eyeball
Dome DSC_0316.JPG
Mini wedge dome DSC_0445.JPG
Dome PTZ DSC_0379.JPG
Bullet DSC_4831.JPG

The link you made is a full size PTZ.

Why do you want a 4K PTZ? There are plenty of 4MP PTZ cams that are very good. @EMPIRETECANDY can give you good prices and recommendations.
 
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I want the highest quality video I can get and 4k is common enough to be affordable. Buy once and cry once and I'll be set for years with video technology

So I'm open to turrets/eyeballs or domes depending on if I go PTZ or not.

But I'd rather have 4k over PTZ I think. But if I can find 4k PTZ in a small compact footprint like an turret or dome, for less than $400, I would probably do it.

Turrets are better over domes because the dome gets dirty and restricts visibility right?

These will be mounted outside, so that is a big consideration. I think that's why I originally chose turrets and found this Dahua thread.
 
greymanlife said:
I want the highest quality video I can get and 4k is common enough to be affordable. Buy once and cry once and I'll be set for years for technology
Click to expand...
You would have to define 'highest quality video'. Just because the video has lots of pixels, does not mean it is of 'high quality'. Do not chase pixels.

There are many 4K cams on small sensors that will be absolutely poor quality in low light, as in not being able to ID a person or car. There will be video artifacts due to the small sensor not getting enough light.

Your comment about turrets vs. dome for outside is correct.
 
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Ok you're right and I know 4k sensor size plays a big role in overall quality.

I think sticking with the Dahua brand is going to get me the highest quality camera for the most reasonable price correct?

I want 4k, but want a good size sensor so that it is can produce high-quality low light video. What are the different 4K sensor sizes used in these type of video cameras?

I'm also probably going to put up additional IR lighting to help with that at night

So does this 4k/8MP Dahua that was linked to a few posts ago have a good size sensor and actually good in low light?


This one has a 1.1/8th sensor, so I know that anything over 1" is a really good size sensor.

These 4k Dahua turrets might just be the ones I go with unless I find a PTZ that's comparable.
 
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greymanlife said:
This one has a 1.1/8th sensor, so I know that anything over 1" is a really good size sensor.
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That is not correct. The sensor is a 1/1.8" sensor. So the sensor size is 0.555". Not sure why they just don't state it that way. Have never read anything that states why they are listed as 1/1.8" or 1/2.8". Seems to me that is always confusing to folks.

This is a good thread to read over with respect to sensor size.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
 
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The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)
 
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Hmm well that's disappointing

Is there a Dahua turret that has a larger sensor than the 4k one linked to for $240?

Or are they planning on coming out with a newer model over the next year?

I'm not in a rush yet and want 4k for the detail as well as the best low-lighting video I can get. As I mentioned, I would probably be ok with supplementing IR lighting to help illuminate things at night
 
greymanlife said:
Hmm well that's disappointing

Is there a Dahua turret that has a larger sensor than the 4k one linked to for $240?

Or are they planning on coming out with a newer model over the next year?

I'm not in a rush yet and want 4k for the detail as well as the best low-lighting video I can get. As I mentioned, I would probably be ok with supplementing IR lighting to help illuminate things at night
Click to expand...

As of right now the 4k/X is only available as a bullet.

You cannot add IR lighting to these cameras as they cannot see infrared. So far it appears the 1/1.2" sensor cameras will be color only without ability to see infrared.

Please look at the thread posted above - Do not fall for the hype of 4K.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

Many people still prefer the 5442 over the 4K/X.

These cameras cannot digital zoom like you see in the movies and TV. You can do a little, but not a lot.

Look at this thread from just yesterday where someone compared a 3MP to 8MP on digital zoom..you will see that the difference isn't that great.

8mp vs 3mp image comparison

hello, I have an 8mp 1/1.8" sensor PCI-T18F2S on the top and 3mp 1/3" sensor DS-2CD2132F-IS on the bottom. Both cameras are 2.8mm and the cereal box is at 15 feet in both cases. I would expect a much better image from the 8mp. What do you think? I'm sure you would like to have a lot more...
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Or this thread:

How much resolution is really needed for LPR

We have folks come here all the time thinking that more MP is better, whether it be for general purposes or for LPR. Those of us that have been around long enough know that sensor size is more important than MP. Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of...
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samplenhold said:
You would have to define 'highest quality video'. Just because the video has lots of pixels, does not mean it is of 'high quality'. Do not chase pixels.

There are many 4K cams on small sensors that will be absolutely poor quality in low light, as in not being able to ID a person or car. There will be video artifacts due to the small sensor not getting enough light.

Your comment about turrets vs. dome for outside is correct.
Click to expand...
So true. It is All about the Sensor Baby, well mainly :)
 
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wittaj said:
As of right now the 4k/X is only available as a bullet.

You cannot add IR lighting to these cameras as they cannot see infrared. So far it appears the 1/1.2" sensor cameras will be color only without ability to see infrared.

Please look at the thread posted above - Do not fall for the hype of 4K.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

Many people still prefer the 5442 over the 4K/X.

These cameras cannot digital zoom like you see in the movies and TV. You can do a little, but not a lot.

Look at this thread from just yesterday where someone compared a 3MP to 8MP on digital zoom..you will see that the difference isn't that great.

8mp vs 3mp image comparison

hello, I have an 8mp 1/1.8" sensor PCI-T18F2S on the top and 3mp 1/3" sensor DS-2CD2132F-IS on the bottom. Both cameras are 2.8mm and the cereal box is at 15 feet in both cases. I would expect a much better image from the 8mp. What do you think? I'm sure you would like to have a lot more...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com

Or this thread:

How much resolution is really needed for LPR

We have folks come here all the time thinking that more MP is better, whether it be for general purposes or for LPR. Those of us that have been around long enough know that sensor size is more important than MP. Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of...
ipcamtalk.com ipcamtalk.com
Click to expand...
Man I like reading ya'lls post, you guys teach me so much, I am still such a novice but this is what I now know: It is so true, each Cam will have it's own unique location. it's purpose, different lighting requirements, FOV, etc. So many more can be listed. I too, as many do, first fell for the MP Hype. This Forum changed all that.

Now I tell people the Location/Purpose picks the Cam. Ex. for my backyard (small 30x50 feet), IR is my only choice, if I were to light up our backyard the neighbors would become my enemies. Love Thy Neighbor (remember :), I even have my 5442 IR turned down :), well not for that reason, so I don't have facial washout...LOL
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
Maybe because it's not 0.555"? The IMX347 sensor is 0.356", called a "Type 1/1.8" sensor by its manufacturer. The inches part gets added by Dahua.
Click to expand...
So what you are saying here is that everything I have read here about sensor size is wrong? Everything that the long-time, respected contributors here have been stating is wrong info on sensor size?

Wow, now what do we do?
 
johnfitz said:
I can't tell if you guys are joking... Am I missing something here?
Click to expand...
Not joking. See the PDF that @tigerwillow1 posted.

It implies that the sensor size values we have been quoting, like 1/1.8" being equal to 0.555 inches is not correct. In fact, that particular sensor Sony IMX347LQR has a diagonal measurement of 9.04mm which is 0.356".

It also implies that the designation 1/1.8 is the ratio of the vertical to horizontal number of pixels and not the size in inches. @tigerwillow1 states that the inches designation of the printed sensor size (like 1/1.8") is added by Dahua in their specification documents.

I am at a loss here. I do not have enough expertise to know what is true here.
 
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samplenhold said:
It also implies that the designation 1/1.8 is the ratio of the vertical to horizontal number of pixels and not the size in inches.
Click to expand...

But then a type 1/1.2 sensor would be nearly a square picture and type 1/2.8 sensor would be very wide?

DS-2CD2347 4MP 1/1.8 sensor resolution 2688x1520 (1520 x 1.8 = 2736 close)
DS-2CD2387 8MP 1/1.2 sensor resolution 3840x2160 (2160 x 1.2 = 2592 not close?)
 
samplenhold said:
It also implies that the designation 1/1.8 is the ratio of the vertical to horizontal number of pixels and not the size in inches.
Click to expand...
That's not it either. The diagonal size of a solid state sensor is converted to the diameter of the circle that would be needed to contain it, then rounded off to a commonly used "type". Because of the rounding, even sensors of the same type may be different sizes. Similar to how TVs are now advertised by their "class" instead of their exact diagonal measurement. It's explained here:

Optical format - Wikipedia
"The optical format is approximately the diagonal length of the sensor multiplied by 3/2. The result is expressed in inches and is usually (but not always) rounded to a convenient fraction."
Image sensor format - Wikipedia
"Current digital image sensor size descriptors are the video camera tube equivalency size, not the actual size of the sensor."
 
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tigerwillow1 said:
Image sensor format - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

This "inch" system gives a result approximately 1.5 times the length of the diagonal of the sensor.

tigerwillow1 said:
Maybe because it's not 0.555"? The IMX347 sensor is 0.356"
Click to expand...

Therefore, 0.356 x 1.5 = 0.534 which is approximately 0.555

samplenhold said:
So what you are saying here is that everything I have read here about sensor size is wrong?
Click to expand...

No? Just that the 1/1.8" = 0.555" sensor size type should be divided by 1.5 to get the true approximate diagonal sensor size?
 
All that being said, I still do not know if our 'common knowledge' of stating 1/2.8" or 1/1.8" and one being better than another based on that 'size' is correct?

Really the piece we are after is the actual pixel size. We here have always stated the larger the pixel, the more light each pixel gets. But to get that info, one needs to know what the sensor is in a particular cam. This is not always easy to find.

The pixel size for the 4MP sensor @tigerwillow1 listed is 2.9 µm. Which cam uses this sensor?

While I can't find what sensor is used by the 5442 cams, I have read that is it a 1/1.8 4MP Omnivision sensor and has a pixel size of 2.8µm.
 
tigerwillow1 said:
Optical format - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

OF={\frac {p{\sqrt {w^{2}+h^{2}}}}{16000}}

with:
  • w = width of array (in pixels)
  • h = height of array (in pixels)
  • p = pixel size (micrometers)
samplenhold said:
Really the piece we are after is the actual pixel size. We here have always stated the larger the pixel, the more light each pixel gets. But to get that info, one needs to know what the sensor is in a particular cam.
Click to expand...

Since you can calculate the pixel size using the resolution (w x h) and the "Optical Format" (i.e. 1/1.8") it still seems to me that the 'common knowledge' is still correct.
 
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