Is this the best these cameras can do?

[dlee]

I have 2 Foscam F18905Ws both outdoors. One monitoring the front of our house and one an area in the back. We mostly got them to see wildlife. (We have a lot of bears, wolves, coyotes, turkeys, deer, etc in our area) I am using Blue Iris and LOVE it! We are happy with the quality of the videos and snap shots during daylight, however the night shots are horrible. Almost unusable at night due to the"debris" the cameras see. The back camera is the worst. It is in total darkness and is constantly picking up floating debris. The front camera is in an area of a big yard light so the videos are a bit pixelated and blurry, but no "floating debris" is seen. We actually captured a video on the front one, within a week of setting them up, of what we think is a black wolf (there is one in the area) but it is so blurry it is hard to tell for sure if it is a dog or wolf. I was SO disappointed with the results of that video clip!! I have attached links to a short clip of the "debris" our back camera sees all night long, (This is from tonight. no mist, fog, rain, etc..never is.) and the one of what we think is a wolf in our driveway. (It was only about 35 feet from the camera) Is this the best I can expect from these cameras? Or is there something we can do to improve the results?

I have adjusted the sensitivity settings on the back camera to reduce the amount of false alerts. (Had over 200 one night!) I have also zoned out all the darker areas in the back camera's view so the debris is not triggering the camera. The only part not zoned out is the grass where it shows as white in the infared and the floating debris blends in to the grass background and doesn't trigger the camera much anymore.

Debris https://www.dropbox.com/s/y7yur2639trf7nm/Back.sample.wmv?dl=0

Wolf or dog https://www.dropbox.com/s/jff191vgrlhgycm/wolf.dog.wmv?dl=0

 

[fenderman]

@dlee, Yes this is the best those cameras can do...they are low resolution vga cameras...the "debris" you are seeing in the black and white video is IR light being refelcted off dust or water particles...That will happen with any camera...The solution is to disable the ir light (may not be possible with that model) and use an external illuminator...
If you want a good quality image that is lightyears ahead of those cams, look at 1.3 or 2mp(1080p) hikvision or dahua cameras ...the 1.3mp or 2mp will have better night vision than the 3mp cams...stay away from foscam, it is not a good brand. Hikvision cameras allow you to disable IR light but keep the camera in night mode so it can detect an external IR illuminator.
Here is an example of a 3mp hikvision 2332 turret camera at night - make sure to change the youtube resolution to the highest..

 

[dlee]

Wow, the example you posted is unbelievable! But now i have purchased these cameras, and we have them mounted to the siding under the eaves (Hubby wasn't thrilled with that part!) and we are stuck with them I can shut off the IR on this model. Might have to consider an external light for the back one to get rid of the floating debris problem. But I guess we are stuck with the poor quality, blury night shots.

 

[fenderman]

Wow, the example you posted is unbelievable! But now i have purchased these cameras, and we have them mounted to the siding under the eaves (Hubby wasn't thrilled with that part!) and we are stuck with them I can shut off the IR on this model. Might have to consider an external light for the back one to get rid of the floating debris problem. But I guess we are stuck with the poor quality, blury night shots.

Is there a specific option to shutoff the IR light? If you are just placing it on day mode it will not work...The you need the camera to disengage the IR cut filter which is normally active in day mode...

 

[dlee]

fenderman, yes, there is a "IR on" button and a "IR off" button in the camera software program. I can see in the live feed when I shut it off the live shot goes almost completely dark.

 

[fenderman]

fenderman, yes, there is a "IR on" button and a "IR off" button in the camera software program. I can see in the live feed when I shut it off the live shot goes almost completely dark.

That may or may not control the IR filter...even if it does, it will likely not recall the setting after a power interruption or reboot..

 

[dlee]

ok, thanks for all the info! Now I am really wishing I would have researched better before i bought those. (Thought I had!) Might have to upgrade in the near future. These aren't going to cut it for night videos and snap shots. I can tell already there is going to be way too many missed opportunities and "should have been better" wildlife shots. Thanks again for your time.

 

[fenderman]

ok, thanks for all the info! Now I am really wishing I would have researched better before i bought those. (Thought I had!) Might have to upgrade in the near future. These aren't going to cut it for night videos and snap shots. I can tell already there is going to be way too many missed opportunities and "should have been better" wildlife shots. Thanks again for your time.

No problem...dont feel bad, many of us have purchased these junk cams in the past...its a right of passage....(obviously if you are still within the return period, ship them back)..

 

[dlee]

Soooo.....of course I have been thinking about shipping these back and trying something better. I have until May 2 to return them. If I did, would you have a wireless recommendation for our needs that would stay in the same price range as the ones you mentioned? Running erthenet cable to these two locations is definitely not something we will want to deal with! We don't necessarily want cameras that need to be able to capture details such as license plates, face details, etc, Just cameras that are able to give clear enough video/snap shots at night to be able to determine, for example, the TYPE of animal. (Using the wolf/dog video for an example). The farthest view range needed is the back camera at about 60 feet. We can easily put up an outdoor dusk/dawn light for external lighting on the back camera.

One more question........Where abouts, in relation to the camera, would we put an external light? Would we just want to light up the area we expect to see the most activity? (Under the big oak tree)

I am a little hesitant about having to go through the nightmare of getting them all set up again. It took me over a week of sleepless nights researching and learning to get these set up as far as bridging, ports, remote viewing............ though I suppose I have half the battle done now already for any future changes.

 

[dlee]

P.S. I do have a brand new desktop computer dedicated to these cameras. I really don't use it for anything else other then it has the modem/router for our wireless

 

[fenderman]

Soooo.....of course I have been thinking about shipping these back and trying something better. I have until May 2 to return them. If I did, would you have a wireless recommendation for our needs that would stay in the same price range as the ones you mentioned? Running erthenet cable to these two locations is definitely not something we will want to deal with! We don't necessarily want cameras that need to be able to capture details such as license plates, face details, etc, Just cameras that are able to give clear enough video/snap shots at night to be able to determine, for example, the TYPE of animal. (Using the wolf/dog video for an example). The farthest view range needed is the back camera at about 60 feet. We can easily put up an outdoor dusk/dawn light for external lighting on the back camera.

One more question........Where abouts, in relation to the camera, would we put an external light? Would we just want to light up the area we expect to see the most activity? (Under the big oak tree)

I am a little hesitant about having to go through the nightmare of getting them all set up again. It took me over a week of sleepless nights researching and learning to get these set up as far as bridging, ports, remote viewing............ though I suppose I have half the battle done now already for any future changes.

I would certainly return those...there is no point of keeping them..
As far as wifi, its always a last resort...you may want to test powerline adapters....if you are set on wifi, any camera can be turned into a wifi camera using a cheap wifi bridge like this http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR702N-Wireless-Repeater-150Mpbs/dp/B007PTCFFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429274691&sr=8-1&keywords=tp+link+mini+router
Finally if you want a camera with wifi built in, http://www.nellyssecurity.com/cameras/hi-def-cameras/ip-cameras/1-3-mp/hikvision-ds-2cd2110f-iw-outdoor-hd-1-3-mp-ip-dome-security-camera-4mm.html
http://www.nellyssecurity.com/cameras/hi-def-cameras/ip-cameras/2-mp/hikvision-ds-2cd2120f-iw-outdoor-wifi-wireless-hd-2mp-ip-dome-security-camera.html
These will blow away the cameras you currently have.

 

[dlee]

Will be thinking this all through and doing some more research on the information you have provided. Thank you again for all the info!

 

[bp2008]

+1 on fenderman's camera recommendations. I can't believe foscam is still selling those old mjpeg models.

If your WiFi conditions are ideal, there shouldn't be a problem. But WiFi conditions are rarely ideal so if you find the video performance to be unacceptable, be prepared to invest in powerline networking adapters and/or a second, better WiFi access point for the camera(s) which you can install closer to them.

Old MJPEG cameras actually have a bit of an advantage on poorly performing WiFi networks. The bit rate of an MJPEG stream is mostly controlled by the network conditions, and the frame rate simply goes down when conditions are poor (as long as the connection can be maintained). But with h264, the encoder doesn't care what the network conditions are. It produces a stream of video data and if the receiving end can't receive it all in time, then thats just too bad; it won't decode properly and there will be buffering, dropped frames, image artifacts, and probably complete disconnections. Such is the downside of a far more complex (but far more efficient) video format.

 

[LittleBrother]

+2 on fenderman.

I'd get rid of those while you still can, even sell used on amazon or ebay if necessary. For a little more you can have a far better image, as you've seen above. Try and wire this up and skip wifi if you're able, as your signal will be guaranteed, stronger, stable. There are some options if you must be wireless, though.

 

[bp2008]

Oh, and do not buy a wifi repeater that doesn't plug in with ethernet cable. I see that happen often enough too, and trust me you don't want to cut your wireless capacity in half with a repeater just to get a better signal to the cameras.

 

[dlee]

Thanks for all the input!

 

[dlee]

We are going to send these Foscams back and go with the suggestions given. I like ordering from Amazon but am having a hard time finding a 1.3mp or 2mp Hickvision on there. (Lots of 3mp ones though) Would this one fit our needs? http://www.nellyssecurity.com/cameras/hi-def-cameras/ip-cameras/2-mp/hikvision-ds-2cd2120f-iw-outdoor-wifi-wireless-hd-2mp-ip-dome-security-camera.html

Also, we have decided to run erthenet cables and hook them up directly to the router. Our wi-fi isn't the best with all the laptops and phones using it in the house too. Back in the analog TV antenna days we had antenna wire run to just about every room in the house, so it won't be that bad to run cables to either of these cameras. It will be about 35-40 feet of cable to each of them. Might as well do it right this time! So having said that, what exactly am I looking for when it comes to the erthenet cable? There are so many different ones out there! (I do need it to be white so it blends in with the siding.)

And finally, what about POE? Is it better to just plug them in directly to power? Is there any performance loss using POE? We do have power access to both cameras if that is better.

 

[fenderman]

Great!
That camera is perfect for your needs..Its a 3 axis dome so you can wall mount it and has sd card as well if you want a backup to your pc..it will also look way nicer than the huge bullet you had..
Before mounting the dome, read the pdf in post 10 here so that you properly install camera to avoid IR refection...
http://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/1177-Hikvision-Foggy-as-***?highlight=foggy

With respect to ethernet if you are drilling holes then its best to buy bulk cable so you can make the smallest hole possible..although you can cut one side of premade cable as well...How long are your cable runs?
The most important thing to avoid is CCA - copper clad aluminium cable which is total junk..you want the cable to be copper...
It can be cat5e or 6...there is a negligible cost difference to go with 6 so you might as well.
Two reliable sources are monoprice.com and cable matters on amazon...
I would go with POE, it makes for a much cleaner install and there is no downside.(the cameras do not come with adapters)
This switch can power up to 4 cameras and is very popular around here.
http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SF1008P-100Mbps-8-Port-802-3af/dp/B003CFATT2/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1429452691&sr=1-1&keywords=poe+switch

 

[dlee]

Glad you mentioned that it can be wall mounted. I was wondering about that because I wanted to mount them in the same place as the current ones are, (On the side of the house) so that's nice to know.
The cable run distance to each camera from the router area is only going to be 35-40 feet max. They aren't very far from the room that has the computer/router (almost straight outside that room which is ground level) and it is going to be pretty much a straight shot out to each camera. There is not going to be need for threading it around through several rooms, corners, etc. which is going to make it nice and why we decided to just go ahead and hook them up directly. And as i said, we already have holes drilled that we will use from the old antenna wires. But I was thinking we should maybe use 100' to each in case we decide to relocate the cameras in the future......

 

[fenderman]

There are several versions of that camera some are two axis the one you linked to is a 3-axis camera that can be wall mounted. as far as the cable goes since you already have holes if they are large enough to accommodate the ethernet plug you may as well go with premade cable buy it from Monoprice or cable matters..
Remember that with this camera as with most cameras if you want audio you need to add your own external mic

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