Kenosha Shooter Kyle Rittenhouse; Criminal, Murderer or Citizen Defender.

BobRegnar

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Yes, this is another great example of the lying media spinning their false narrative.

Every statement on this includes "black man shot seven times in the back by police." And while that does include facts it omits even more facts and any context making understanding the event past the media's spin impossible. This is designed explicitly to support the media's current anti-police stance and further inflame the riot-at-the-drop-of-a-hat class of idiots.

Not once have I heard or read anyone say while reporting or commenting on this, "if Blake would have complied with police it wouldn't have happened." The non-lethal attempts to stop Blake had failed. The cop was no doubt in fear for his life.

Blake and his actions/choices caused all of it and is responsible for all of it. Blake's family can be forgiven for their hateful words but everyone else is just agitating.
 

SouthernYankee

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samplenhold

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This is an unfortunate situation and there are/will be no winners here.

Unfortunately it is next to impossible to find any real facts, at least ones that can be confirmed. Take the statements that the two killed and the one injured all had criminal histories.

On the one hand I have seen video of the first guy shot and killed confronting folks a few hours prior to the shooting screaming for them to shoot him. Looks like him. He is using tactics that have been taught by Antifa and recently by BLM where the perp moves quickly towards someone, moves/raises hands in a threatening manner only to stop just inches away from them. This is intended to elicit a protective response from the person in order to justify attacking them. It is also stated that this guy is a convicted sex offender and was not to have contact with minors. He was also supposed to have anger management issues. But others have stated that all of this is made up.

The Skateboard guy has been touted as a hero for 'saving lives' by MSM but never really states how he 'saved lives'. They never state that he chased the shooter and hit him in the head with the skateboard. I have seen statements that he is a convicted felon (two counts of domestic battery) which he pleaded guilty to for a dropping of many other charges. But then I have seen statements that this is made up, including the graphics of the charges from the state website.

The guy that was only wounded is clearly holding a handgun in the videos and still photos but is also wearing a 'medic' badge. Contradictory? I have seen statements that he is a convicted felon and therefore should not have been in possession of a firearm. Then others say this is made up.

Of course the shooter could not have known of any of these possible criminal histories, but if they are true, it paints a picture of who the rioters are and what their personalities might be in this special situation.

The shooter is only 17. Never should have been there, especially armed. But he was. So being there and being confronted by violence, he tried to run. He was pursued by the angry guy. Ultimately he shot that man. He then ran away while being chased but stumbled to the ground where the skateboard was used to hit him in the head. He shot that guy. Next the 'medic' comes up and points a handgun at him and he shoots that guy in the arm. He then leaves. He went home. He should have surrendered to the police at that point.

It is one thing to stand your ground at your own home/business and protect it from being burned to the ground like so many buildings these last months. I can support that. But a minor should never have been there armed. Going on video saying you are part of a militia that is there to protect businesses is only going to hurt his story.

How could this been avoided? The shooter should not have been there. But he was. The angry guy should not have attacked him. Who attacks a guy that is in position of an AR? Someone that thinks that person will not shoot. And at first he was correct. He had to chase him past several rows of parked cars in the lot before he was shot. Now for the other two guys, why did they chase him? The statement that they were trying to 'stop him or protect others' does not hold water. If you have taken CHL or LTC classes, you will know that you cannot pursue someone and use deadly force on them if they are running away. The threat they posed to you is no longer present. You have now become the aggressor. He was within his rights to use deadly force to both of those guys in the street that chased him, hit him, and pointed a gun at him. They had no right to chase him. They are not the police.

But right or wrong, the shooter is in for a shit storm that he could never possibly imagine. legal bills out the wazoo. Media coverage that will be 100% biased against him. Social Network calls for his and his family's death will be there. His address will be online with folks encouraged to make life impossible for his family.
 

SouthernYankee

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If the cops and the government do not defend the people, then the people must defend them selves against the terrorist. If they show up on my street and attempt to do the thing that they have done in other town. They are dead. Both my wife and i are over 70 with carry licenses. I keep a loaded 12 gauge at the door. And a Mossberge defender in the truck. I carry a Sig Saure p320 9mm. My wife carries a s&W 38 special. I am a combat vet.
 

c hris527

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I'm thinking many of the shooters and 2A advocates will come down on the side of this young man but I can imagine there are those who think otherwise.

Personally, I think his actions should be judged justified if not deserving of commendation.


Rittenhouse is now charged (as per Kenosha County Circuit Court Complaint 8-27-20) with the following:

Count 1: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESS HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON

Count 2: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON

Count 3: FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON

Count 4: ATTEMPT FIRST DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON

Count 5: FIRST DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON

Count 6: POSSESSION OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON BY A PERSON UNDER 18
Its too bad things have to be this way, this is the natural progression of the way things are heading if the local politicians keep turning there backs if not encouraging the mob rule mentality. The American people are NOT going to put up with this too much longer I assure you this. The mobs harassing sleeping citizens waking them up with threats at 2am, going into restaurants and public shaming people IF they do not say what the mob tells you to say..Total HORSESHIT!!!!! This is what happened in Nazi Germany. Anybody with half a brain can see whats coming if this does not get resolved. If the politicians let things fester like this, you will see more citizens opening up lead baths on these lawless mobs.
 

samplenhold

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Doesn't Rittenhouse have as much business being in Kenosha to defend property as the rioters and agitators who don't live there and came to help loot and burn it down?
'Have as much business...' Yes. But it was not a smart thing to do. Just because you can, does not mean you should.

Realize that he was not from the area though. He lived in a different state. Yes it was not far, maybe 20-30 minute drive. But he still was not a local. The three perps he shot were all locals.

We each make thousands of decisions each day. What to have for breakfast. What shirt to wear. Should I get another camera? Should I replace my 5231's with 5442's? Most of the decisions we make do not amount to much influence over our lives. But sometimes those decisions are the most important we make. So many people do not really think through those decisions. What are the potential outcomes? You go to an area that is not your home, where the potential is for a riot to happen, what did he think would be the outcome? Did he not think he could be in the middle of a riot? Did he think 'that's ok I have a gun'. If he did, that was way tactically stupid. He was putting himself in a no-win situation. If you go someplace that you know is going to be dangerous, someplace that you would never go if you were unarmed, then it is not smart to go there at all. If you view being armed as giving you the ability to take greater risks, then you know nothing about risk. People that go looking for trouble generally will find it.

Don't get me wrong. I am not siding with the left-wing scum. But this kid did not make good decisions and those decisions will destroy his life. He put himself in a bad situation where he would most probably have to defend himself. Like @SouthernYankee said, " If they show up on my street...", but this was not his street. He was not defending his home, his family, his neighbors. I feel really bad for him.
 

BobRegnar

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You say those he shot were all local but my understanding is that Huber was from Silver Lake, 20 miles away. Grosskreutz was from West Allis 40 miles away. And Rosenbaum had just moved to Kenosha from Waco.

I get your argument, but Rittenhouse was there removing graffiti and to give first aid, too. I don't think he was there just looking for a fight. As you say, he avoided them when he could.

He was there to defend against the property destruction and looting from the thugs calling themselves protesters. I don't fault his willingness to defend his neighbors. And to do that unarmed would be extremely foolish especially in the absence of police. Yes, he's young but we've sent 'kids' his age to war.
 

samplenhold

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You say those he shot were all local but my understanding is that Huber was from Silver Lake, 20 miles away. Grosskreutz was from West Allis 40 miles away. And Rosenbaum had just moved to Kenosha from Waco.
Ok so I am wrong. That is one of the 'facts' that I read somewhere that seem not to be true depending who is writing (I do not mean you Bob). " Yes, he's young but we've sent 'kids' his age to war". That is true, but at his age it was not without their parent's permission. Also, we train them, they operate under a command and control structure, and are in military combat situations. This is a 17yo who is not in the military and has no benefit of that service.

I am not aware of this "...was there removing graffiti and to give first aid...".

I don't fault his willingness to defend his neighbors
And neither do I. But I do not think it was smart. Certainly the outcome proves that. This kid is going to have a world of shit thrown at him for quite some time. And then he is going to have to live with the fact that he killed two people. Justified or not, as a civilian he has taken two lives and this will weigh on his mind for the rest of his life. It is easy for folks to sit in their homes at their keyboards and say that it will not make a difference since he was being attacked. It was justified. Until you kill someone, as a civilian, you really can't understand.

That is all I am going to say about this.
 

Jessie.slimer

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I generally agree with you, but this kid appears to have some good training with firearms. His life was in danger and he was able to ward of 3 armed attackers from pretty uncomfortable positioning, while having to clear a malfunction. I can only hope to perform that well in that situation.
 

bigredfish

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I think we're all saying the same thing.

A) Would it have been wise for him not to be there at all (let alone armed)? YES

B) But as he had a right to be there, was he justified in using lethal force to defend himself?
From what we have seen and the descriptions I've read so far of the event, YES it would seem so and he did indeed exhibit extraordinary gun handling under stress
 
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Jessie.slimer

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I'm curious to see what happens with Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy shot in the arm. If he was a felon, it is a felony to possess a firearm. Most states can charge you with murder if someone is killed during the commission of a felony, even if he was not the one who actually killed them. He also should be charged with unlawful use of weapons for discharging it.
 

Jessie.slimer

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bigredfish

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MANY of the Sheriffs here will tell the Marxists disguised as politicians to pound salt when it comes to legally defending yourself.

1 out of every 8 adults over 18 in FL have a Concealed Weapon License. More than any other state.
And while I think the violent riots will continue to get worse, note that here in the Gunshine State they attempted it in Tampa and Miami for a night or two back when this started and were quickly shut down. It's not a good place for violent Marxists to misbehave.
 
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