Believe me, some of this when you are going into the hardware level and trying to explain it in a concise way to a general audience, its hard not to appear vague.
Long outdoors netwok cable run
- Thread starter Virga
- Start date
@Teken - I am now looking at two runs of fiber cables in the same conduit (or separate conduits if that were essential), one for cams and one for a gate controller which will be on a vlan for internet access.
I'm inclined to use pre-terminated fiber cables.
Questions:
1. What would be appropriate fiber cables?
2. What size conduit would that require?
3. What size hole in the wall would the LC connector on the cable in Q/Answer #1 above require?
Background info:
I have a 328' outside run, not counting around 70' in the crawl space, up a conduit, and in the wiring room to switches.
I have 205' of 1 1/2" conduit buried in the ground, in the middle of that run.
I have a 100' section of 2" black pipe on site, ready for burial, from house wall to one end of the 205' already-buried section.
The last 23' will be whatever it needs to be.
When my trenching project comes together, I'm ready to bury 2" conduit(s) if need be, for the entire length.
As it relates to the size of the conduit what is inside of it now?!? What type of cable is inside now?
If the answer is this (existing) conduit has 120 / 240 VAC power cable inside. You must either use direct burial cable (outside) of the existing conduit or run it through new conduit.
You local NEC / CEC codes will determine all of the criteria that span depth, distance, sweeps, cable fill.
1.50” conduit is more than fine and balances the cost vs value. Once you go past 1.50” conduit everything is 2X more expensive unless you had the supplies on hand.
If you purchase direct burial fibre you can save a lot of money if you decide to forego placing the same inside of conduit.
The choice to place anything into conduit almost always comes down to code and your environment.
Meaning, if your specific area is not prone or impacted by underground critters or earth movement.
Direct burial cable is fast and financially sound to use and deploy.
The only caveat is proper depth, bedding, covering, and marking.
It goes without saying you have to be firm on the location and that nothing will ever be drilled / built over the run.
If you’re ever in doubt it just makes sense to eat the cost and place the cable no matter the type in conduit with multiple pairs and a pull string.
Lastly, as I stated earlier the vast majority of direct burial fibre is armoured.
As such one end must be bonded to the single point Earth ground of the homes electrical grounding system.
This can be avoided by using dielectric fibre but this type fibre cable is extremely expensive and must be terminated after the cable install.
Many DIYer have cheated simply by using indoor rated non armoured cable. To avoid the whole grounding process and everything that comes with it.
That is something you may consider doing but this isn’t something I would ever do.
The obvious reasons are the cable is fragile and not pull rated. As such has no outer sheathing and is easily bent / twisted / broken.
Because it’s not outdoor rated never mind direct burial rated. The outer case easily absorbs moisture and water.
Once that happens the fibre will begin to fog and refract the laser / LED and the signal will degrade where you’ll see endless TX/RX dropped packet errors!
Anyone who has had the opportunity to trench any cable knows.
Do it once - Do it right!
Cheers - Rock On
Thank you for your response @Teken.
The 1 1/2" partial-run installed is currently empty (205' in the ground already, another 123' to go), total end-to-end run of cable will be around 400' including indoors run to wiring room (EDIT).
The sole purpose of that conduit is to contain fiber once I figure out what kind of fiber: single mode, mutimode, OM1/OM2/OM3/OM4 etc.
Conduit because trenching is the most expensive part of the project, and when the conduit is in place you can do whatever you want in the future.
I prefer two runs of cable.
I will use burial grade cable, and do my best to ground it correctly.
I am trying to put together an irrigation project which will involve trenching, and am hoping to piggy back the completion of the conduit for fiber on to that trenching.
The 1 1/2" partial-run installed is currently empty (205' in the ground already, another 123' to go), total end-to-end run of cable will be around 400' including indoors run to wiring room (EDIT).
The sole purpose of that conduit is to contain fiber once I figure out what kind of fiber: single mode, mutimode, OM1/OM2/OM3/OM4 etc.
Conduit because trenching is the most expensive part of the project, and when the conduit is in place you can do whatever you want in the future.
I prefer two runs of cable.
I will use burial grade cable, and do my best to ground it correctly.
I am trying to put together an irrigation project which will involve trenching, and am hoping to piggy back the completion of the conduit for fiber on to that trenching.
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OM3 fibre is 10GB rated for a specific distance of 300 meters.
OM4 fibre is 10 GB certified up to 550 meters and 40/100 GB certified up to 150 meters.
You can buy either cable that meets your needs and distance. Purchase whatever cable is the best value vs the other.
Let us know what ever you decide on.
I agree, given what you have so far I would definitely run 1.5” conduit the full length and pull 2 runs inside there so you have separate data streams. The runs are just beyond copper so outdoor rated (armored) multimode OM3 would work great and should be quite economical with plenty of speed for what you want to do (10G should be fine).
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Thanks @Teken and @MTL4.
A preliminary search got me to this single mode cable, which at least seems to check all the boxes except for mode.
When I search for OM3 cables, so far whatever I find is multiples pricey.
Question:
Run 01 400' - will connect cam PoE switch at gate (power present there) to main PoE switch, connected to second NIC on BI PC.
Run 02 400' - will connect a gate controller back to a TBD switch for creating a vlan so the controller can connect to the internet.
If OM3 cable is indeed quite a bit more pricey, and if the above cable meets the requirements, perhaps the above cable would do the job?
A preliminary search got me to this single mode cable, which at least seems to check all the boxes except for mode.
When I search for OM3 cables, so far whatever I find is multiples pricey.
Question:
Run 01 400' - will connect cam PoE switch at gate (power present there) to main PoE switch, connected to second NIC on BI PC.
Run 02 400' - will connect a gate controller back to a TBD switch for creating a vlan so the controller can connect to the internet.
If OM3 cable is indeed quite a bit more pricey, and if the above cable meets the requirements, perhaps the above cable would do the job?
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I have no experience with this brand of fibre cable so YMMV.
Regardless, here is the document we use and provide all the techs as it relates to proper bonding the armour sheathing to the single point earth ground in the home’s electrical system.
Lastly, no matter what you do (DO NOT) coil the fibre (Service Loop) and place it on any metal surface / object if the cable exceeds ten feet!
Worst case scenario just affix it to a wooden board and let it hang on there in the shape of infinity as seen in the attachment.
Attachments
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If your going to use a conduit then this works well.
I used a partial spool like this along with the LC type snap on connectors. Ran roughly 600' to my gate and 400' to the house. It's got 12 fibers in there so more than enough to future proof most installs.
Riser cable is good for long pulls as it's built to hang vertically so it does not stretch easily. I pulled with a bit of lube and had no issues. May be a good idea to have a pulling box about half way if your conduit is tight.
800ft Spool Commscope 371-COMOM3-TBD-12 12 Fiber Optic Multimode OM3 Riser Cable | eBay
This listing is for one new 800ft spool of Commscope OM3 Multimode 12-Fiber 50/125 TB Riser Optical Cable, p/n 371-COMOM3-TBD-12. Free shipping.
www.ebay.com
I used a partial spool like this along with the LC type snap on connectors. Ran roughly 600' to my gate and 400' to the house. It's got 12 fibers in there so more than enough to future proof most installs.
Riser cable is good for long pulls as it's built to hang vertically so it does not stretch easily. I pulled with a bit of lube and had no issues. May be a good idea to have a pulling box about half way if your conduit is tight.
As an eBay Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Single mode is great for long runs or if you can afford it. As others have offered it’s often the preferred mode since it can work in short or long runs. Less cable to stock.
For this situation multi mode OM3 is plenty capable. I got 10G to my main controller using a couple SFP+ ports. My main internet into the ranch is less than 500M so plenty of bandwidth even if I splurged on a 1G internet connection.
That 10G is great as I have a dozen cameras running up to shop where my BI Server is located.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For this situation multi mode OM3 is plenty capable. I got 10G to my main controller using a couple SFP+ ports. My main internet into the ranch is less than 500M so plenty of bandwidth even if I splurged on a 1G internet connection.
That 10G is great as I have a dozen cameras running up to shop where my BI Server is located.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks @jnissen.
The above 800 ft spool you linked to would provide just the right amount of cable for my two runs.
The info you provided some time back, and the encouragement, got me ready to terminate my own cable,
Then, I got cold feet and started looking for pre-terminated cable!
In a preliminary/casual search for some odd reason multi-mode pre-terminated cable appears to be pricier than single mode.
OM3 in terms of capacity will be plenty for me.
I just have to figure out how to get it in.
BTW, the cable you linked to does not appear to be a burial grade cable ... you OK with that?
If it works, I'd go with it because the conduit gives flexibility.
I recently got some pull tape that is marked in foot-increments, and am going to get a measurement to validate my estimate of actual length.
Thinking of getting somebody to terminate the cable, much as I like to do stuff myself.
The above 800 ft spool you linked to would provide just the right amount of cable for my two runs.
The info you provided some time back, and the encouragement, got me ready to terminate my own cable,
Then, I got cold feet and started looking for pre-terminated cable!
In a preliminary/casual search for some odd reason multi-mode pre-terminated cable appears to be pricier than single mode.
OM3 in terms of capacity will be plenty for me.
I just have to figure out how to get it in.
BTW, the cable you linked to does not appear to be a burial grade cable ... you OK with that?
If it works, I'd go with it because the conduit gives flexibility.
I recently got some pull tape that is marked in foot-increments, and am going to get a measurement to validate my estimate of actual length.
Thinking of getting somebody to terminate the cable, much as I like to do stuff myself.
That spool of OM3 was super cheap (great deal) but the issue is that it isn't rated for outdoor use (see link below). Now that doesn't mean it won't work for a long time, just that it's not rated for outdoor exposure or submersion in water (like what would happen in a conduit).
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www.anixter.com
If is was me, I would get all the conduit installed so you know exactly how much you need, then buy the right stuff and pull it through. You can buy terminated or unterminated cable, that doesn't matter as much as the cable rating because you can always reterminate the ends if needed. You really don't want to pull this more than once because even with lube it's a long run.
Thanks @MTL4.
I am taking from the image of the cable at the link and from the associated specs PDF that 24-strand means it is like 24 fiber cables.
If one wanted two runs of fiber and used such a cable, one would not install two runs of the entire cable, rather, one run would leave 22 spares.
I have 3/4" conduit in place for the entire run, and that particular cable appears to be 0.31 inch outer dia so could likely be pulled in the conduit.
However, a burial rated cable will probably be huskier regardless of strand count.
When the existing 3/4" conduit was buried, they did not leave a pull string like they were supposed to.
Some time back I had the use of large compressor and we blew a pull string through.
There was a steady trickle of water at the exit end of the conduit, along with air.
It brought home the fact that there is water in buried conduit and for planning purposes, at least in this instance, I may as well think of the conduit as full of water.
I am taking from the image of the cable at the link and from the associated specs PDF that 24-strand means it is like 24 fiber cables.
If one wanted two runs of fiber and used such a cable, one would not install two runs of the entire cable, rather, one run would leave 22 spares.
I have 3/4" conduit in place for the entire run, and that particular cable appears to be 0.31 inch outer dia so could likely be pulled in the conduit.
However, a burial rated cable will probably be huskier regardless of strand count.
When the existing 3/4" conduit was buried, they did not leave a pull string like they were supposed to.
Some time back I had the use of large compressor and we blew a pull string through.
There was a steady trickle of water at the exit end of the conduit, along with air.
It brought home the fact that there is water in buried conduit and for planning purposes, at least in this instance, I may as well think of the conduit as full of water.
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Yes, the one I linked to was 24 strand but the specs on it are basically the same as the 12 strand from eBay. If it was an indoor application then that stuff would be perfect but I wouldn't feel good putting that into a buried conduit and giving it my blessing (again because pretty much all conduits below ground eventually fill with water). The main difference you get with outdoor cable is a black HDPE jacket (which makes it UV resistant and waterproof). If it has just an HDPE jacket and no armor then they place an indoor/outdoor rating on the cable. Outdoor (burial) rated cable also has armor around it to prevent damage to the fibers inside. Since you're using conduit you could basically get away with either one so just go with whatever is most cost effective. If you do have rodents that might damage the cable then I would definitely go with the armored type because they will not be able to get through and damage the fibers at all.
You can see the different types of fiber by different manufacturers here (indoor vs indoor/outdoor vs outdoor):
Using multimode fiber you need at least 2 fibers (Tx/Rx, transmit/receive) per data line (so a 12 strand cable would have only 6 data lines in it). So in your case if you wanted to have 2 data lines in the same conduit then I would look for a cable with at least 4-6 fibers in it to allow you to run what you needed.
In your situation I would spend a bit more and get something like this (10G OM3 armored outdoor fiber cable):
Armored 6 Strand Oudoor OM3 Fiber Distribution Cable 500ft
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I'm beginning to wrap my head around FO cable now.
The outer dia of the six strand OM3 is 6.3mm (1/4") so perhaps it can be it can be pulled through the existing 328' long 3/4" conduit, which I was thinking was too thin.
I am going to look for someone to do the terminations, and perhaps the pull too since they'll be on site.
Another question: since I have 328' outdoors, and approx 70' indoors, is it better to have that be one continuous cable?
Or, should the outside cable terminate in a junction box mounted on the outside wall of the house, and from there a patch cable to my wiring room?
For example, if an ISP like Google Fiber brought their service to a house, their service cable would terminate in a box, and from there a patch cable would go to the location of their modem.
In my case it is not a service line, but wondering if I should follow the same protocol.
The outer dia of the six strand OM3 is 6.3mm (1/4") so perhaps it can be it can be pulled through the existing 328' long 3/4" conduit, which I was thinking was too thin.
I am going to look for someone to do the terminations, and perhaps the pull too since they'll be on site.
Another question: since I have 328' outdoors, and approx 70' indoors, is it better to have that be one continuous cable?
Or, should the outside cable terminate in a junction box mounted on the outside wall of the house, and from there a patch cable to my wiring room?
For example, if an ISP like Google Fiber brought their service to a house, their service cable would terminate in a box, and from there a patch cable would go to the location of their modem.
In my case it is not a service line, but wondering if I should follow the same protocol.
You can follow either method depending upon risks and possible future expansion.
Both are legitimate options so will tell you one obviously costs less because it’s just a single home run vs now you have a junction box, four ends that need to be terminated.
The only thing I’ll say is if this is a multi strand cable have both ends terminated for all pairs.
It’s going to cost what it cost but it’s done.
This isn’t something 99.999999% are ever going to do and the cost is only to get higher.
Thanks - will definitely terminate all pairs.
Once I mobilize, may as well be done with it for future flexibility.
Even in one person's time in a home, things can trigger change.
The ability to adapt and reconfigure often opens up possibilities one may not have thought of at inception.
Once I mobilize, may as well be done with it for future flexibility.
Even in one person's time in a home, things can trigger change.
The ability to adapt and reconfigure often opens up possibilities one may not have thought of at inception.
Looking forward to hearing how everything unfolds in your project.
Please do take the time to document and photograph this journey so others wanting to do the same can understand the process and reasons you decided on for your specific project.
Rock On . . .
I think if you're just running a single 1/4" fiber cable that you can definitely pull it through 3/4" conduit (use plenty of the foaming type lube and use your air compressor to push it throughout the conduit as you pull the fiber through).
This fiber setup isn't really like an ISP, think of it more like data distribution (similar to if you ran cat6 cable to an out building). Do not create extra terminations unless you absolutely have to, it just adds more potential failure points. So if it were me I would run a continuous cable from the location you need outdoor all the way inside the house where your switches or media converters will be located. That's where I would terminate all the pairs. Make sure any unused pairs have dust caps left on to protect them from damage while not in use. I agree with Teken, definitely take photos so other can see an benefit from your experience as well.
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