Looking for a camera security system.

nuraman00

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Thank you. That was helpful.

I'm not as concerned about alerts though.

I just want something that records 24/7. I don't want something that relies on events to trigger recording.

And for me, just being able to monitor is what I want. I'm not as concerned about being alerted when something bad happens, as I am just being able to active monitor when I choose.

With that said, do you think an IP POE system would still provide advantages that I would appreciate?

I guess if they still send out alerts while recording 24/7, that's fine. I just don't want to recordings to be motion/heat/event based.
 

mat200

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Thank you. That was helpful.
..
I guess if they still send out alerts while recording 24/7, that's fine. I just don't want to recordings to be motion/heat/event based.
That's exactly what you can do with these systems.

imho if you do not already have coax wiring installed, get a decent IP POE system. ( minimum 1080p resolution )

That's what I ended up doing after the wifi cameras I had were not reliable enough for 24/7 recording.
 

Tizeye

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I only have one room downstairs that's wired for coax. I don't think the upstairs is wired for coax anymore. What I mean is I don't think the upstairs coax outlet works anymore.
Those pre-wired coax rooms are probably for cable delivery to a TV. For security camera purposes they won't work (even with a BNG connector vs the RG6) as a it caries video only. For security cameras using the coax system there is a separate line that carries power. That is why if you look at BNG extension cables at Best Buy, you will see that it is not a single cable but a dual cable molded together with separate video and power connectors on both ends. That is the advantage of IP systems using computer network CAT5e or CAT6 cables which has 4 pair twisted wire (8 total) one of which carries power vs COAX which is single core wire (aluminum mesh is the ground).
 

nuraman00

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Those pre-wired coax rooms are probably for cable delivery to a TV. For security camera purposes they won't work (even with a BNG connector vs the RG6) as a it caries video only. For security cameras using the coax system there is a separate line that carries power. That is why if you look at BNG extension cables at Best Buy, you will see that it is not a single cable but a dual cable molded together with separate video and power connectors on both ends. That is the advantage of IP systems using computer network CAT5e or CAT6 cables which has 4 pair twisted wire (8 total) one of which carries power vs COAX which is single core wire (aluminum mesh is the ground).
Thanks. That helps illustrate the differences / advantages even more.
 

nuraman00

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If I want to use a HDTV downstairs that would be connected to the NVR, as well as use a monitor upstairs for viewing the cameras, what would be the best way to do that?

Like if I wanted a wall mounted monitor upstairs that I could just turn on and view the cameras. That would be the sole purpose of the upstairs monitor.

I would need to duplicate the HDMI signal from the NVR, right? So that one would go to the TV downstairs, and one to the monitor upstairs?

Would I need something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-SBWD100KIT01-ScreenBeam-Wireless-Transmitter/dp/B009Z8T3K6/ref=pd_sim_147_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B009Z8T3K6&pd_rd_r=APRK61V40NFAVQ6XDSZC&pd_rd_w=63eSp&pd_rd_wg=wkou0&psc=1&refRID=APRK61V40NFAVQ6XDSZC

Or would there be a "in the wall" solution where they could split and route the cable upstairs?
Bump?
 

nuraman00

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I called Swann and Lorex, as these are the two models I'm narrowing in on.

Costco Wholesale

Costco Wholesale

Here were their answers.

+++++++++++++++

Swann:

* Hard drive is expandable, there's a second slot.

I asked if I put on a second hard drive, would they work in conjunction. As in, when recording on one filled up, would it go to the next? The person said no, putting in a second hard drive acts as a replacement for the other.

I'm going to call again and ask, maybe I'll get someone else.

* I asked about installation. They referred me to their preferred 3rd party company, Installer Net.

* I asked about recording capacity for a 3TB. Here were their answers.

* @ 3MP, ~ 7 days
@ 1080p, ~ 10 days.

I think I need to ask what the recording frame rate is, and whether it's configurable. They did say that @ 3MP, it records at 15 frames/sec.

* Up to 6 TB per hard drive slot.

Installer Net:

* Installation is $100-$200 per camera.

Factors that affect the rate per camera are:

* Whether it's more than 60 feet away from the NVR.
* The mounting surface.
* How much the cables are concealed. Do I want it on the ceiling, or behind the wall?
* If I want it configured to the internet. If I want it accessible on a mobile device, they'll have to do port forwarding, which will increase the installation rate.

Lorex:

* Hard drive is expandable, there's a second slot. Each slot can be expanded up to 6 TB. This person said the hard drives would work in conjunction.
* I asked about installation. They said to look for CCTV installer companies.
* I asked about recording capacity for 3 TB.

Their estimates:

@ 3MP, 7-10 days
@ 1080p, ~ 1.5 weeks
@ 720p, ~ 3 weeks

+++++++++++++++++++++

DVR Record Time Calculator

Using the calculator above , if I want 8 cameras @ 1080p, 30 frames/sec and 30 days of recording, I would need 14G. @ 720p, 10G. If I use 6 cameras, it's 10.2 G @ 1080p and 7.4G @ 720p.

How many frames should I do? 30? 15?



If I'm going to replace the hard drive, I might as well max out the capacity and replace both.

I can get the Lorex model with 2TB instead of 3TB:

Costco Wholesale

And get 2 of these and put them in both slots:

https://www.amazon.com/6TB-Hard-Drive-Backup-Storage/dp/B0193QQ8UW?tag=vs-avsforum-convert-20

Are there any data transfer rates or other specs for the hard drives that I should look at?

What do I have to do to format the hard drive after installing them?
 

mat200

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NVR will take care of any formatting the hdds may need.

re frame rates - imho 15fps should be good enough for most of us
 

randytsuch

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I know the price is tempting, but you really should stay away from the costco/big store type bundles.
Better to pay more in the beginning, and get a system that will do what you need.
 

nuraman00

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nuraman00

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@mat200 , what do you have? And how did you get it installed?

Also, can anyone help with my questions about how I could set up a monitor for viewing just for upstairs, while also having the NVR connected to a HDTV downstairs? What would I need to be able to view it in both places?
 

mat200

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@mat200 , what do you have? And how did you get it installed?

Also, can anyone help with my questions about how I could set up a monitor for viewing just for upstairs, while also having the NVR connected to a HDTV downstairs? What would I need to be able to view it in both places?
I picked up various parts which were recommended here...

check out:
New Home - First Security System

installation - I learned to DIY, lots of good suggestions here to help - just search for them as well as look on youtube.

Multiple monitors - I have not yet done that, I would search "HDMI multiple monitors on one output" or something along those lines. I know it can be done, just do not know what equipment you may need.

Also, you maybe able to just view from the webinterface - so if you have a network connection upstairs that may help.

Good luck, and remember if you are willing to learn you definitely can DIY for installation.
 

nuraman00

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I picked up various parts which were recommended here...

check out:
New Home - First Security System

installation - I learned to DIY, lots of good suggestions here to help - just search for them as well as look on youtube.

Multiple monitors - I have not yet done that, I would search "HDMI multiple monitors on one output" or something along those lines. I know it can be done, just do not know what equipment you may need.

Also, you maybe able to just view from the webinterface - so if you have a network connection upstairs that may help.

Good luck, and remember if you are willing to learn you definitely can DIY for installation.
I will look through that thread again. Will let you know.

I see now that Western Digital Purple is meant for surveillance. So I shouldn't use WD Blue. Thanks for that.

I don't even have a ladder. So that will make DIY even more challenging.

I can DIY for things like furniture or some electronics or household things, but for this, I'd rather have a professional.

Yes, as long as the monitor can access the web, the web interface should be fine.

Can you post a few more prices, such as your # 2, 3, and 5? Also, what's a junction box?
 

randytsuch

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Whats the focal length for the costco cams?
All of these systems provide fixed length cams, and they are all the same.
And they tend to be wide angle. Wide angle seems good, lets you see everything, but in reality you won't be able to id anyone unless they are right in front of your cam.
This may work in some situations, like right in front of a door, but is unlikely to be optimal in all situations.

There are plenty of people who come here because they bought a package, and then figured out it wasn't doing what they needed.

Randy
 

mat200

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Whats the focal length for the costco cams?
All of these systems provide fixed length cams, and they are all the same.
And they tend to be wide angle. Wide angle seems good, lets you see everything, but in reality you won't be able to id anyone unless they are right in front of your cam.
This may work in some situations, like right in front of a door, but is unlikely to be optimal in all situations.

There are plenty of people who come here because they bought a package, and then figured out it wasn't doing what they needed.

Randy
Depends, there is one 4K kit at Costco right now which looks like it has cameras in the package are similar to the Dahua 4k 8mp IPC-HFW4830E-S in terms of some of the specs: 4mm 88 degrees. If the image is any thing like this sample it would be a nice camera in well lighted situations and from the specs as good at night as some of the lower resolution cameras sold at Costco.
Any 4k cameras (or > 2MP) with good night Image Quality?

Also it should provide in theory the same ID distance as a 2MP / 1080p bullet with the same specs at FOV of 44 degrees.

btw - check out the review of a Dahua 8MP vs 2MP starlight
Dahua 8mp NON-Starlight HDW5830R-Z review
 
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randytsuch

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Depends, there is one 4K kit at Costco right now which looks like it has cameras in the package are similar to the Dahua 4k 8mp IPC-HFW4830E-S in terms of some of the specs: 4mm 88 degrees.

Also it should provide in theory the same ID distance as a 2MP / 1080p bullet with the same specs at FOV of 44 degrees.
Off topic now, but are you saying a 4mp at 88 deg will give you the same picture quality as a 2mp at 44 degrees?
When looking at the same spot for the same amount of detail?
I'm pretty sure if you compared cams in real life you would find this not to be true.

Randy
 

nuraman00

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Whats the focal length for the costco cams?
All of these systems provide fixed length cams, and they are all the same.
And they tend to be wide angle. Wide angle seems good, lets you see everything, but in reality you won't be able to id anyone unless they are right in front of your cam.
This may work in some situations, like right in front of a door, but is unlikely to be optimal in all situations.

There are plenty of people who come here because they bought a package, and then figured out it wasn't doing what they needed.

Randy
Thank you.

When I came here, I was considering the packages I listed because I know someone with a Q-See system, as well as someone with a Nest system. So that's why my considerations were similar systems.

I had seen them use them.

But, your point is good and something I hadn't considered. I'm hoping to find someone to do a site evaluation, and that person may bring up some of your same points and why I'd want different types of cameras in certain areas.

Is there a screen shot or video showing the difference of a wide angle camera vs. narrow?

I'm a familiar with the concept of wide aperture lens settings on point-and-shoot cameras. But I'd like to see an example as it applies to video cameras.

Are you saying that if I wanted to look out over the driveway and across the street, a narrow lens is better than a wide angle? That would be better for IDing?
 

nuraman00

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Depends, there is one 4K kit at Costco right now which looks like it has cameras in the package are similar to the Dahua 4k 8mp IPC-HFW4830E-S in terms of some of the specs: 4mm 88 degrees. If the image is any thing like this sample it would be a nice camera in well lighted situations and from the specs as good at night as some of the lower resolution cameras sold at Costco.
Any 4k cameras (or > 2MP) with good night Image Quality?
This is the same one, right?

Costco Wholesale
 

mat200

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Off topic now, but are you saying a 4mp at 88 deg will give you the same picture quality as a 2mp at 44 degrees?
When looking at the same spot for the same amount of detail?
I'm pretty sure if you compared cams in real life you would find this not to be true.

Randy
Hi Randy,

A 4K camera.. 8PM... vs a 2MP camera.

Let's face it, there's a lot more to a camera than FOV and resolution.

That said for 2 like cameras in terms of ability to successfully capture pixels what I stated applies AS LONG as the pixels were successfully captured, ie effective pixels.

Note, comparing a 2MP starlight with a Dahua 8MP camera is not comparing like cameras due to the vast difference in the abilities of the chips in capturing effective pixels.

The sample videos and picture captures from the 8MP / 4K samples we see here clearly show how well those cameras are able to capture good detail images under well lighted conditions. Naturally during low light conditions they are unable to do as well as the starlight which is optimized for low light.
 

mat200

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