Looking for Learned Input

TiMah

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Afternoon folks - I have been extensively researching this forum and wanted to TRULY thank you all for your Gravitation, Predisposition and well frankly Addiction to Cam Security... )))

Just looking for some insight on beginning my own journey.

SHEWHOMUSTBEOBEYED thinks she wants battery powered Ring Cams just like "our friends" have - pretty pictures etc etc... Ain't happening.

I have conversed with Andy and a few other members about possible cameras to start with based on what I think I want/need (low light, 2 way audio, custom alarm, fixed or vari lens ???,
2-4 MP 1/2.8 Starvis etc...

and they suggested IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball AI Network Camera...

Id like to place this either to one side of the crossbeam or right at the peak (probably to high tho) .... from the portico to the street is about 35-40 feet, with VERY little light (no street lights) and dead end street.

My wife doesn't fully understand the myriad of nuances associated with a properly functioning system and she doesn't care to hear about either - so there is no budget per se.

I will run Poe to the basement / smart switch / router and use the Dahua App to start this process of getting my feet wet.

Im no where near attempting BI yet - just looking for a wee bit of simplicity to start....

I realize there are many unknowns in my request - but I have to crawl - walk and then run....

Thanx kindly...
 

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sebastiantombs

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I understand your "difficulty" with what I describe as "The War Department". I would strongly suggest the lower location on top of the post, rather than at the peak. The peak will give you tops of heads of people on your property given the distances/angles involved. You don't mention what lens size, but I would suggest 3.6mm, minimum, to get a reasonably good enough shot to be able to identify anyone. You could also get a can of spray paint, or even have some liquid paint mixed, and use a brush, to blend better with the post. That might help a bit. There's a few threads about painting cameras if you need a "how to".

My Son in Law has a collection of Ring, Wyze style cameras and thinks they're great...until I show up and remote in to my system with Dahua Starlight/Starvis, 2 and 4MP. Having to wipe the drool marks off my phone when he gets done with the oooh, aaaaahhh, cycle.
 
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Either place will give you a good overview shot but will fail at giving a face shot that can ID someone unless you set the view down the drive and zoom in. A 3.6mm will not get you that closer view.

Angle of attack.jpg

There is nothing wrong with overview cams. I have several. But you need to understand what they can and cannot accomplish.

You may like to show the caps below to your wife to convince her of the fact that Ring is crap.

My Dahua cam: 4-15-2020 4-13-02am.jpg

Neighbor's Ring cam across the street: Jims RING cam shot.JPG

To see a post about the incident:


If you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"
 
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TiMah

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I understand your "difficulty" with what I describe as "The War Department". I would strongly suggest the lower location on top of the post, rather than at the peak. The peak will give you tops of heads of people on your property given the distances/angles involved. You don't mention what lens size, but I would suggest 3.6mm, minimum, to get a reasonably good enough shot to be able to identify anyone. You could also get a can of spray paint, or even have some liquid paint mixed, and use a brush, to blend better with the post. That might help a bit. There's a few threads about painting cameras if you need a "how to".

My Son in Law has a collection of Ring, Wyze style cameras and thinks their great...until I show up and remote in to my system with Dahua Starlight/Starvis, 2 and 4MP. Having to wipe the drool marks off my phone when he gets done with the oooh, aaaaahhh, cycle.

I just now finished with ....... "I don't want wires hanging everywhere" - blah blah blah....
Yes I saw the painting threads - thankyou....

Ok so 3.6mm lens it is....

Thank you very much ST...
 

TiMah

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Either place will give you a good overview shot but will fail at giving a face shot that cam ID someone unless you set the view down the drive and zoom in. A 3.6mm will not get you that closer view.

View attachment 76212

There is nothing wrong with overview cams. I have several. But you need to understand what they can and cannot accomplish.

You may like to show the caps below to your wife to convince her of the fact that Ring is crap.

My Dahua cam: View attachment 76213

Neighbor's Ring cam across the street: View attachment 76214

To see a post about the incident:


If you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"

The 3.6mm lens will give me - say 80-90 degree view where as a 2.8 will provide approx 100 degree...
My Explorer is only ever about 15-20 feet from the front door but off on an angle.... so my thought is the 2.8.... wider field of view...
 

TiMah

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Any thoughts on a specific camera tho ???

As Andy suggested ... IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2MP Starlight WDR IR Eyeball AI Network Camera ???
 
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what is the purpose of the cameras to begin with? if to keep eye on vehicles... is it a consideration to put 1 or 2 cameras right infront of the parking area? If view from porch area, I could see a perp simply twisting head away from camera as perp walks from sidewalk to your Explorer.
 
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so my thought is the 2.8.... wider field of view...
You need to decide what it is that you want the cam to accomplish. Expecting a cam to do several things generally means it does nothing well.

Here is a shot of a 2MP cam in 3.6mm (Dahua HDBW4231FP-AS) at my front door mounted at about five and a half feet. Subject is 15 feet from cam:
FDRH.20200701_104138_1.jpg

Here is a shot of a 4MP cam in 2.8mm (Dahua T5442TM-AS) mounted at five and a half feet with subject 10 feet from the cam:
PFD.20201202_122108647.7.jpg
 
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Echo6Romeo

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This forum page is awesome, I just started my research so take my advise with caution since I'm new. I'm still researching but so far I like the IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI for 24/7 color in low light conditions but its not a turret and no built in mic to listen in. The second option I read about on this forum is the IPC-HDW5442T-ZE, its a turret style with a mic but I'm not sure how it will do in low light conditions compared to the first one. I do like the fact that it's motorized vari-focal up to 12mm so I have some flexibility in my install. Do a quick search here and you will see a detailed review of both cameras, extremely helpful and personally I applaud those that took the time to review them.
 

TiMah

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My purpose, right now, is to be able to be able to id a perp around my vehicles, knocking on my door to see if anyone is home and to id cars along my street (not so much lic plates)....
 

TiMah

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Id like to be able to have the quality resolution of samplnhold at my door and 35-40 feet away...
 

sebastiantombs

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Of the three, pick one and install for that. The other two become "incidental". I'd go for ID at the cars which does mean a "tighter" lens, 6mm. The wide view of a 2.8mm may look nice and be appealing to those that don't understand cameras, but they're useless for ID any further away than about two meters, at best.
 
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To put things into perspective... I knew going into the video cam game arena to go big. I went Blue Iris and wanted the best cameras for the home. I think I'm upto 17 or 18 cameras now when I started with just 4. Some are 2MP, some are 4MP, some are 8MP.
I "thought" I knew what camera was going to do what. Things changed later. My final result is to have 3 cameras watching my driveway. 1 to the left, 1 to the right, 1 center. 2 are varifocals and always in b&w (left and right), the center is a 5442.
Those 3 cameras are dedicated to my parking area. For my front porch, I have a 9' mounted 2MP camera to keep eye on packages and also a Dahua intercom/doorbell camera (a VTO). Both of those devices are dedicated to my front porch.
You see, you have to figure out what camera does what. More than 1 camera may be needed.
 
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My purpose, right now, is to be able to be able to id a perp around my vehicles, knocking on my door to see if anyone is home and to id cars along my street (not so much lic plates)....
That will require at least three separate cams.

Generally we tell folks that you need to have a plan and TEST it prior to installing cams. Get a good varifocal cam and put it on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes BEFORE running cables and mounting cams. This will help you decide where to place cams and what cam to get.
 

TiMah

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To put things into perspective... I knew going into the video cam game arena to go big. I went Blue Iris and wanted the best cameras for the home. I think I'm upto 17 or 18 cameras now when I started with just 4. Some are 2MP, some are 4MP, some are 8MP.
I "thought" I knew what camera was going to do what. Things changed later. My final result is to have 3 cameras watching my driveway. 1 to the left, 1 to the right, 1 center. 2 are varifocals and always in b&w (left and right), the center is a 5442.
Those 3 cameras are dedicated to my parking area. For my front porch, I have a 9' mounted 2MP camera to keep eye on packages and also a Dahua intercom/doorbell camera (a VTO). Both of those devices are dedicated to my front porch.
You see, you have to figure out what camera does what. More than 1 camera may be needed.
Next time Im in NV Ill be sure to NOT come a' callin.... )))
Theres a big part of me that just wants to hook shit up and get on with it....
However, the cliff notes say otherwise.... so Ill bring the chaulk board back out and plan for the long haul...

Thanx Lads.... vastly apprciated....

You neighbor due North....
 
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You have been given great feedback so far.

You need a plan. Read the Cliff Notes and check out the WIKI.

Once you get some of the background, you will have to decide on how to interface with the cams. Basically the choices are a dedicated NVR, a PC running cam software, like Blue Iris, or if you have a NAS that has cam software using that. People on this forum, in general, have decided one over the other. Though I have seen posts of folks that use both an NVR and a software solution at the same time. I have a QNAP TS-251+ and, in the beginning, I used the Surveillance software for my cams. But eventually I did not like it and went with Blue Iris and a PC.

If you decide to go the NVR route, it is a good idea to choose all one brand of cams and NVR. Mixing brands will give you headaches. However, if you go the PC and BI route, then mixing brands of cams is fine. Personally I have gone with all Dahua cams. I believe in fit-for-purpose planning. Currently have over 21 cams recording, spread over 11 different models.

You need to decide on cams. But in order to do that, you need to understand what you want from the system. And I mean specifically, not just 'I want to be able to monitor the house'. What does that mean specifically? Front door coverage? Back door coverage? Do you have your cars parked on the street or in the driveway? How are you going to get ethernet to those locations? So before buying cams, define what you want from the overall system, and then where do you need cams to achieve that overall plan. Once you have defined where cams need to be, you need to define what each cam's job is. Then you define what attributes that cam needs to have to get the job done. Once you have that defined, you make the buying decision based on the merits of the cam satisfying those requirements.

Say you wanted to buy a house. There are obvious requirements that all houses should have, like a roof, locking doors, electricity, you get the idea. But you also have other requirements that are specific to your personal needs. Like maybe 4 bedrooms, two car garage, three and a half baths, etc. Well the same goes for your camera plan. And that plan will evolve over time as you gain experience and knowledge of how cams work. Mine plan is currently nothing like my first plan of two years ago.

Here is an example:

I want to be able to identify anyone that comes to my front door. By identify I specifically mean that I get a good enough face shot that could be used as a mug shot by the police. Plus I want to be able to get info on clothing color and types, any visible tats, and any voice or other sounds they make. I also want to be able to observe their gait and see where they came from and where they went after being at my front door. If a car was involved, I want make, model, color, and any other info including plate number. Oh, and all of this has to be done in both daylight and after dark. My front door faces South and has some issues with lighting and access. It has different lighting depending on time of day, time of year, and rain or shine. I have plenty of lighting on the porch and there are street lights near by. But the door is set back from the rest of the porch and I live on a corner.

I used a varifocal cam on a test rig (as defined in the Cliff Notes) to test different positions at different times and lighting. It became apparent that to get good face shots at the front door and it's approach, I would need more than one cam. I ended up with four cams at the front door. Two mounted at five and a half feet and two mounted at one foot looking up. This gives me a great chance of getting an unobstructed face shot no matter where the sun is shining from and no matter what head covering they are wearing. I then have a cam mounted on one of the porch pillars facing back towards the door so that I get the person leaving. Another cam mounted on the left side of the porch looking across the length of the porch to catch any access that does not come up the walkway. I also have three high mounted overview cams that cover the streets (I live on a 'T' intersection) so that I can see where the person came from and where they went. I also have two cams for LPR and another cam focused on the 'T' intersection for vehicle make, model, color, etc. That is twelve cams spread out over eight different models. Each model was chosen based on the requirements for that specific view/location.

An example of the requirements for the intersection cam:

Needs to be able to run in full color at night overlooking the intersection such that I can identify make, model, color, any damage/stickers, and any other identifying parameters from stopped or moving vehicles. This has to be able to be done in a distance range of 40-80 feet. Would be nice to get plates, but I do not expect to get that in low light from moving vehicles since I have dedicated LPR cams for that. Need to be able to get a good description of people walking through the corner 24/7. Now I just needed to find the right cam.

So I had three cams I had bought for installation in other parts of my home and tested them in the location I wanted to put this cam. One was an older cam that I had replaced from my driveway. This was an HDW5231R-ZE which is a 2MP on a 2/2.8" sensor with a 2.7-13.5mm varifocal lens. This was the top dog for low light two years ago when I bought it. By using this cam in that position, I learned that I needed more zoom than 13.5mm. I also needed better night color performance. I had a T5442TM-AS in 2.8mm fixed lens that I was about to install covering my front door and porch. This is the fixed lens turret brother of the Z4E. This test told me that while the 2.8mm was way to wide a view (which I knew already) the 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor gave me great color night performance that allowed me to see all of my requirements. So that lead me to getting the B5442E-Z4E, which is an 8-32mm varifocal bullet 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor.

Hope this helps.
 
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