low-lux camera not so low ?

IP-MAN

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Hello, sorry i'm opening another thread but i have one problem with my pinhole revotech i706-2,

specs are
Sensor: Hi3516C+OV2710
Min illumination: 0.01Lux @(F1.2,AGC ON)

my problem is that at nighttime the video is almost totally dark, it to not adapt to night
i have even increased the brighness to max manually it's better (screenshot) but terribly worst than every single other ip camera that i own. look like low lux mode don't kick in.

do it mean that it's fake specs (0.01lux) or that the firmware do not include the Low light mode?

There is a way to enable it using telnet or something? it's a Hisilicon chip, there is a telnet port opened i may ask the vendor for password

thanks alot
 

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tangent

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There's no standardization as to how camera companies measure LUX, so it's not very useful when comparing brands. It can be useful when comparing cameras that are the same brand. Being able to discern a blob from the darkness is roughly the threshold they use for setting the lux rating.

You shouldn't have very high expectations for some no name brand like that.

If you want low light a camera these would be the cameras to beat: Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup
If you want good low light images you need to run the camera in black and white with lots of IR light. Attempting to use color at night will pretty much always result in a blurry, grainy, dark image with little to no detail that looks exceptionally bad when the objects in the frame are moving.
 

IP-MAN

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I don't need an IR LED cam and such expensive, the scene is illuminated it's not a no light scene, i have other 15-20$ 720p only cameras but they are 5 times brighter than this one that cost twice the price, it look like there is no low lux mode in the firmware, there is no way to force it?
i may just stick with my other cams and sell this "expensive" $30 but useless one.

Attempting to use color at night will pretty much always result in a blurry, grainy, dark image with little to no detail that looks exceptionally bad when the objects in the frame are moving.
yes, my cams mentioned above switch to black and white when the low lux mode is kicking in, this cam don't have this function .. ;( not sure why, i though it was on every single ipcam.

it's not my exactly my model of cam but it's what i spoke about.
 
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tangent

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I don't need an IR LED cam and such expensive, the scene is illuminated it's not a no light scene, i have other 15-20$ 720p only cameras but they are 5 times brighter than this one that cost twice the price, it look like there is no low lux mode in the firmware, there is no way to force it?
i may just stick with my other cams and sell this "expensive" $30 but useless one.

yes, my cams mentioned above switch to black and white when the low lux mode is kicking in, this cam don't have this function .. ;( not sure why, i though it was on every single ipcam.

it's not my exactly my model of cam but it's what i spoke about.
I'm sorry but it's just sad that you think this camera or your $15-20 720p cameras are good for anything but watching a mousetrap. These are all easily among the worst IP cams in existence. This looks like a clone of the TOP-201 camera that comes will a computer virus baked into the software. I'm not surprised that the garbage 720p cams seem better than the garbage 1080p cams, the optics on these are really bad and a higher res sensor just results in less light hitting each pixel of the sensor and a worse image.

It's hard not to laugh when you're trying to use a low quality pinhole in a low light.

If you buy junk you should expect it to work like junk.

Avoid this garbage.
 

IP-MAN

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:drool: i don't have any quality issues with my 720p junk the image more then enough.. and the 1080p video quality is perfect at daytime and even more with that powerfull Hi3516C it give a smooth video with a strong 25FPS

i just wanted to know why my junk 720p that have a black and white NIGHT MODE whitout IR was looking so good in low light condition VS the 1080p pinhole, so according you it's because of the hole for the sensor that is tiny, the fact that it's 1080p cheap sensor have too much pixels and as well because it do not have the firmware function that switch to black and white in low light mode

so i'm going to get a cheaper one with pinhole @ 720p and the firmware function to turn on black and white mode automatically, i'm going to check reviews before
 
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tangent

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Any pinhole camera will have crappy night performance.

It's simple physics. Tiny crappy optics result in very little light getting to the sensor and as a result the image is way worse than something with better and larger optics.

Some of these cheap cameras don't even have an IR cut filter so they can't do black and white / IR night footage at all.
 
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IP-MAN

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ok i have found more infos, i have asked few sellers, checked some infos on google and videos, pinhole cameras can do low light mode with no problem, all you need to have is the right cmos such as the sony imx291 with starlight/starvis, this one support low light scenes. i have found one cam so i have ordered one. Hopefully it will perform not that bad with a pinhole lens :s
 
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IP-MAN

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Hey, i have found 2 models that seem pretty good

the first one is a imx291 + hi3516C
Aliexpress.com : Buy Mini IP Camera SONY CMOS IMX291 Starlight Colorful Night Vision 1080P Full HD 3.7mm Pinhole Lens Onvif H.264 Mini Camera HD from Reliable ip camera sony suppliers on Utrans Security Store

and the other one is the same price but with the imx290 and hi3516D which can do h265 as well and micro sd; 2 way audio
Sony Starvis 2MP Mini IP Camera pinhole 3.7mm lens 1080P Wifi CCTV Network Cam Support 2 Way Audio Alarm SD Card lot Max 128G-in Surveillance Cameras from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
i have asked the seller and he can mount a pinhole lens on it

the 2nd one seem better, so that's the best thing for 60$ max that i can get for a pinhole with better low light vision without ir leds?

thanks ;)
 

IP-MAN

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TANGENT you was TOTALLY wrong, i have received the starvis cam with imx290, hi3516D, pinhole 3.7mm and it have very awesome low luminosity performance !! It's very good, i recommend everyone to not listen to him and buy a pinhole starvis if you need such cam. i will upload a picture of the 2 cam (the new with imx290 and my first cam with OV cmos) later this night. With my previous cam it was almost totally dark and with the starvis is very very clear. Perfect camera
 

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fenderman

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TANGENT you was TOTALLY wrong, i have received the starvis cam with imx290, hi3516D, pinhole 3.7mm and it have very awesome low luminosity performance !! It's very good, i recommend everyone to not listen to him and buy a pinhole starvis if you need such cam. i will upload a picture of the 2 cam (the new with imx290 and my first cam with OV cmos) later this night. With my previous cam it was almost totally dark and with the starvis is very very clear. Perfect camera
likely you simply have a poor reference of what is good and what is bad....since you never owned a very good low light camera...its is very common for amateurs like you to brag about the quality of a camera when they have never seen anything better...that explains many amazon reviews...also remember that even if the image is good, these cheap junk cameras have poor hardware and worse firmware (some even infected with trojans as we have seen)..camera is useless if it fails...
Dont upload a picture, a picture is worthless, you need to upload a video with movement.
 

Aengus4h

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funnily enough, I recently bought a few of these low-cost 1080P Starvis IMX290 cameras as an upgrade from the top-201 style varifocals with older IMX sensors, just to improve the night vision. Wanted compatibility with the Hik NVR and very compact size as mine are all mounted indoors looking out owing to property restrictions (rented). Asked for the 2.8mm lens option since pinhole doesn't suit my requirement (plus would be v slow F rating) and they arrived and set up perfectly. Hik NVR talking to them as Hik protocol devices. Good clear daytime images but the giveaway was grass,shrubs etc showed green (mine always does tho as its astroturf lol). Good low light performance too. So night falls and yep, IR blocking so no visibility in total darkness (I use separate/remote IR illuminators so no insect issues and also better vision in heavy rain/snow than on-camera ones). I doubt these factory M12 2.8mm's are any better than F2.0, maybe slower but they do give a good night picture at the front of the house where there is a LED street lamp 60 or so feet away.

Taking one camera apart its neatly made, 2 boards with a piggy-back wifi module, cable has LAN, power, audio and alarm IO and the back of the case is cast with a depression that contacts the chip that runs hot so is better heatsinked than the top-201 a-likes, tho still runs v warm to the touch. Inspecting the lens there's an IR filter on the back of it. There is a board lens mount screwed onto the lens thread and the board is secured to that as well as the 4 corner screws, I guess its there to prevent any potential light leakage via the rear case cover. Lens is glued at the casing to secure it (no locking screw on this case design).

So I rebuilt this unit into a compact top-201 case (32mm board) that has a 2.8-12mm f1.7 lens fitted which does pass IR and have to say its a LOT better than the non-starvis IMX sensor in the camera it replaced under IR illumination. OK grass etc looks pink in the daylight, I can live with that, but the fact that these units can now easily pick out the kitties etc moving about at night under IR and that they support Hik protocol makes them good enough for my needs. I do have some 2.8mm f1.4 starlight lenses coming so intend to replace the OEM ones and will see how much difference they make. Should be a fun jobs to do since the OEM lenses are glued in place lol.

No point to rebuild into a casing that could house an IRcut filter either, since there's no connector for this on either of the boards, tho there may be pads present, not looked that closely yet.

All in all, ok many here slate the cheap chinese cams, but these do seem pretty ok.
Supports Hik, XM and Onvif protocols
encoding can be: H264, H264+ or H265 (am running 264+)
No virus/trojans detected on the web interface
Good low light performance tho factory lens does IRcut.
Has SD card capability - not tried this as not needed in my setup.
Wifi - if you need it (I am using this on 2 cameras that are UPS supported locations, to ensure NVR connection as EoP dies in power cuts).
NOT waterproof in any way - if you want an outdoor setup you'd need to house these or get ones made to IP66 rating.

They don't have the Hik smart monitoring stuff like line crossing etc, but for a low-cost and compact/covert setup they do the job just fine. I have them mounted inside, above the windows looking out, so the main make bullet/dome types just would not suit the location nor be covert, and having a built-in IR you're paying for but can't use just adds unneeded bulk IMHO (beside my pref to have IR remote from the camera).

Overall I think they can be great value, depending on your requirements, just need to do the research and understand any limitations before committing to a purchase. Horses for courses and all that :)
 

mat200

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TANGENT you was.. i recommend everyone to not listen to him and buy a pinhole starvis if you need such cam. ..
Hi @IP-MAN ,

You are being unfair to Tangent. It is fine for you to disagree with Tangent, and also fine for you to share what you think is a ok solution. There is no need to create hostility towards Tangent.

Tangent has provided some great information here to others and has shared his knowledge and experience without regards to financial gain.

I want to personally thank Tangent and others here for making this a good forum.
 

mat200

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funnily enough, I recently bought a few of these low-cost 1080P Starvis IMX290 cameras as an upgrade from the top-201 style varifocals with older IMX sensors, ..
Overall I think they can be great value, depending on your requirements, just need to do the research and understand any limitations before committing to a purchase. Horses for courses and all that :)
Hi @Aengus4h,

If you have any pictures, I would enjoy seeing more of what you've described.
 

Aengus4h

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at this moment, light level low enough for the external IR to have turned on this is the view outside. Not bad for low cost cameras :)

The night view of the garden with IR, with the rebuilt camera for now is reasonable, I think. 2s 4-LED illuminators give enough spread so I can see the wee rascals stalking on the garage roof etc. With this sensor the roof area is much better lit (or rather, captured) with no change to the IR alignment.

Will try to pull some in real darkness and add, as well as once I have the starlight lenses set up, once they arrive from overseas.
 

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Aengus4h

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and now its fully dark outside. View from the shed is hampered by the fact that the glass there blocks IR, not much I can really do about that other than the small solar LED panel, hopefully the f1.4 lenses will improve things a bit once they arrive. Front view is only assisted by the street lamp on the other side of the road, any moonlight tonight will be obscured by cloud. The shed and front door are WiFi back to the NVR which is on a different floor and has its own UPS/WiFi AP/switch so the perimeter is covered even during a power outage :)

There's no Day/night changeover setting that I've found yet on these where the original cameras would switch to B&W below a certain light level, but I'm reasonably pleased with the image quality this far. As said in a prev post, suits my purpose and the restrictions in rented home. Purpose being I can remote check if the house alarm calls me to see if there's actually an intrusion from the internal cameras, can also keep a remote eye on the kitties - was the first place they could go outside at 1 year old and they used to get attacked a lot when we first moved here.

I'm sure someone could post similar on the dahua starvis or other brand name cameras and display a much sharper picture etc, but at this price point (approx £40 each), size and also shooting through double glazed windows... its not too bad at all IMHO ;-)
 

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tangent

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You are being unfair to Tangent...
I want to personally thank Tangent and others here for making this a good forum.
Those comments were from quite a while ago and I wasn't particularly bothered. Following @fenderman's lead, when a potentially spammy post shows up promoting a product that isn't very good we collectively tend to come down kind of hard calling it junk and advising people not to buy it. Spammers are usually the ones most offended (hello SEO), but sometimes a non-spammer takes it a bit too personally which is not the intent. The intent is to provide better information to all of the other people who read and find the thread.

Boards like this based on a better image sensor like the IMX290 or IMX291 will run circles around the likes of things like the TOP-201. However, there's more to a good camera than it's image sensor, just think about all of the Huisun/Diesoon cameras. There is a market for these little boards, in fact the awfulness of the DB10 had me looking into what was available pondering what it would take to diy.
 

Aengus4h

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yeah I thought he was a bit wrong to shout like that and a pin-hole lens just ain't gonna perform all that well in poor light or near darkness compared to a better/faster lens. The fact you liked my detail post on these cams shows you do hear what others have to say. Helps to provide details to substantiate what you're saying I think. I get that the branded units tend to be a good buy, plan eventually will likely be to go Hik for cameras when I get to the stage of needing external mounted ones, indoor even the cheap units do ok if its just for seeing who's there, so long as they can motion trigger the NVR. But for the moment I can't drill through the outside walls etc and am limited on running cables etc so this solution works for me and hasn't burned a hole in the rather thin wallet either ;-)
 

Aengus4h

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as a comparison, the swann D1 analogue system with IT bullets on 1&2, a cheap 2.8-12mm zoom with separate IR on 3 and a pinhole minicam on 4 (no IR on that one). Yeah its not a great system but illustrates why I prefer separate IR source rather than on camera. That cloudy effect is either little flying bugs or the drizzle being whipped in the breeze and then there's the damn spiders, only takes them a day even with vasoline and silicone spray applied grrrr lol
 

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fenderman

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yeah I thought he was a bit wrong to shout like that and a pin-hole lens just ain't gonna perform all that well in poor light or near darkness compared to a better/faster lens. The fact you liked my detail post on these cams shows you do hear what others have to say. Helps to provide details to substantiate what you're saying I think. I get that the branded units tend to be a good buy, plan eventually will likely be to go Hik for cameras when I get to the stage of needing external mounted ones, indoor even the cheap units do ok if its just for seeing who's there, so long as they can motion trigger the NVR. But for the moment I can't drill through the outside walls etc and am limited on running cables etc so this solution works for me and hasn't burned a hole in the rather thin wallet either ;-)
he was 100 percent correct...your pinhole cameras perform like crap compared to true low light cams...you further posted no video...still images are easy...
 
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