LPR - Night time

[jeremycolvin]

I have added security cameras to my mailbox in hopes to capture better video of cars & license plates of vehicles going through our neighborhood. We have had a series of thefts lately, etc, so I'm doing what I can to help make the neighborhood safer... or at least to be able to aid in the capture of those who may be involved.

With the cams so close to the road (literally right next to it at mailbox height, I SHOULD have optimum angles to grab plates...

But they aren't working well at night at all. Our street is very dark (out in the country). The daytime shots are ok, but night time doesn't pick up plates at all.

I have tried tweaking the settings, have set cameras to shutter priority, have tried 1/2000 , 1/4000, 1/10000 , etc. I'm running at 15fps, have tried adjusting the various exposures, etc... all - no luck. So I'm thinking at this point that the problem is likely that the camera's are not good enough.

I am using Amcrest IP8M-2496E which I have updated to the latest dahua firmware - The cameras are hard wired POE using buried cat6 from the mailbox to my house.

In searches for the "best lpr cams" - the results I'm getting are in the $800 each range... which is way out of the range that I want to spend on two cameras that I'm mounting to a mailbox which will have clear potential for getting smashed or stolen.

So what I'm looking for here is any suggestions for MORE AFFORDABLE options, which I'm hoping I might find because I really don't need a lot of the bells and whistles that the higher end cams have (ie, with them being mounted so close to the road, I really don't think I need any optical zoom, etc. - or - any suggestions you may have on settings which may help the cameras I have work better at night.

I've attached a picture of the current cameras position/angle for reference.

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

That Camera is too poor to work as LPR, check this one， sure need some DIY. LPR camera always need a powerful lens, people here use a lot with IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E and IPC-B5442E-Z4E.

LPR For IPC-B5442E-Z4E | IP Cam Talk

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

The left pic not expose to the po box, will effect the pic

 

[wittaj]

A 2.8mm will not capture it - it provides too wide of an image even at that close range. I have been there/done that and a 3.6mm was even too wide to capture plates.

You need a varifocal zoomed in tighter.

This is the camera you need for that distance:

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-2-7mm-13-5mm-Motorized-Starlight-Weatherproof/dp/B082XR73CC/ref=sr_1_17?imprToken=eNnu.Pmf5hsW5hcTVECAQg&linkCode=w61&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1690269025&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&slotNum=0&sr=1-17

 

[wittaj]

Was that at a slower shutter to show us the field of view because at the shutter speeds you are running, the image should be completely black and all you should see are the head/tail lights and the plate.



You have to setup the camera to get plates, but at night that is all it will get.

This is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

 

[Alaska Country]

As stated in many threads, on this site, a camera with a 1/2.7 sensor at 8 megs will have close to zero night performance. Your best best is to return the camera and purchase one of the suggested units for LPR use. IMO, this is one application that being 'cheap' will not pay off!

 

[jeremycolvin]

Was that at a slower shutter to show us the field of view because at the shutter speeds you are running, the image should be completely black and all you should see are the head/tail lights and the plate.

Yes, I adjusted it to slow to brighten the shot to show the angle. With the high shutter speed the image is basically black, but I think you are right about it being too far wide angle as opposed to zoomed out. I looked at the camera that you suggested, but not sure that it would work for me mounting wise on the mailbox post. I have several of that type for the house cams around the top of the house, and they work well there, but on the MB post (4x4) I need the other type (not the round dome type).

Right now, I'm looking at the cam that @EMPIRETECANDY suggested (IPC-B5442E-Z4E)

And in that search, I also came across IPC-B54IR-Z4E & IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E

What do you think about The IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E ?

1/2.8” 2Megapixel progressive scan STARVIS™ CMOS
H.265 & H.264 triple-stream encoding
25/30 fps@1080P (1920 × 1080)
WDR (120 dB), Day/Night (ICR), 3D DNR, AWB, AGC, BLC
Multiple network monitoring: Web viewer, CMS (DSS/PSS) & DMSS
5.3 mm–64.0 mm motorized lens

It's a little more, but $200-$250 is doable. And I'm thinking that the 5.3 - 64mm zoom @ 30 FPS might give me enough range.

Your thoughts?

Thank you for your help/input!

 

[jeremycolvin]

That Camera is too poor to work as LPR, check this one， sure need some DIY. LPR camera always need a powerful lens, people here use a lot with IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E and IPC-B5442E-Z4E.

LPR For IPC-B5442E-Z4E | IP Cam Talk

Thank you for your input. I've been looking into the cam that you suggested and another one that keeps popping up in that search... the IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E

I appreciate your help! Thank you.

 

[jeremycolvin]

As stated in many threads, on this site, a camera with a 1/2.7 sensor at 8 megs will have close to zero night performance. Your best best is to return the camera and purchase one of the suggested units for LPR use. IMO, this is one application that being 'cheap' will not pay off!

Thank you for your input. For the record though, I'm not looking to "go cheap" simply because I don't want to spend $ - I'm just thinking that I don't need the features of an $800 LPR camera because I'm not mounting it 75 feet away from the street and because they are going to be mounted at walk by height they can be easily smashed or stolen, so I really don't want to put $1,600 worth of temptation at arms reach. I do have more expensive cameras mounted 30 feet from the ground around the perimeter of my house

But yes, I understand your point and it is well received, thank you for your input!

 

[Flintstone61]

Like Wittaj said you can get away with the 5442-ZE turret for not too much money. the 5442-Z4e is a big bullet cam...( kinda big) i have 2 hanging on the house. painted them to match siding. but might not hide well out at mailbox unless you make some ornamental Mailbox like an old Johnson 70 hp motor cover

 

[jeremycolvin]

Like Wittaj said you can get away with the 5442-ZE turret for not too much money. the 5442-Z4e is a big bullet cam...( kinda big) i have 2 hanging on the house. painted them to match siding. but might not hide well out at mailbox unless you make some ornamental Mailbox like an old Johnson 70 hp motor cover
View attachment 168489

LOL love the pic! - yea, I know the bullets are a bit big, but in part I figure that isn't such a bad thing... ("smile, your on camera") - meaning I think there are some advantages to people seeing that they are clearly being recorded. Plus, unfortunately the turret cams won't work for how I have to mount them to the post to protect the wire from being snipped. Basically I have my current ones mounted to the top of the back side of the cross post with a hole drilled down through the post going into a secured lockbox. (Picture attached)

 

[Flintstone61]

heres my 5442 z4e tonight

 

[jeremycolvin]

heres my 5442 z4e tonight

The big problem I'm finding with the 5442 z4e is finding one "in stock" from anywhere reputable. Maybe this is an older model that has been replaced by a newer model?

 

[Flintstone61]

Daytime is tricky for me looking south. As the sun angle changes, so goes my plate %age....until nightfall. plates at noon are easier to read than plates at 8 pm. Seasonally you will find you maight have to have the camera go to Night settings earlier in the schedule
Like I should do right fucking now! because we can't have that!

 

[Flintstone61]

 

[Flintstone61]

Is it just me, or were they were widely available until we created a post about using them as LPR a few weeks ago....
The Sicilians probably bought the entire production run and dumped them in the Sea.
Andy's " Loryta" branded version of Dahua Oem shows to be in stock...

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-IPC-B5442E-Z4E-Starlight-8mm-32mm-Motorized/dp/B07ZGF9BRW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2BRETG04TIC57&keywords=5442+z4e&qid=1690273726&sprefix=5442+z4e%2Caps%2C118&sr=8-2

 

[jeremycolvin]

EVENTUALLY I will be encasing the cameras in a brick mailbox pillar/post and won't have to worry about them being "secure" - but for now (and realistically for at least several months) I will have to mount them to my regular old wooden post. Eventually, they will be in brick box similar to this, but with plexi cutouts on each side with the cameras safely mounted inside the mailbox structure.

 

[Flintstone61]

Thats too nice for my neighborhood. The Johnson would fit in better here the land of 10,000 lakes.

 

[jeremycolvin]

Thats too nice for my neighborhood. The Johnson would fit in better here the land of 10,000 lakes.

My personality is more like the house mailbox pic you put up, unfortunately it wouldn't fit in too well in this neighborhood. This is my house. And my house is the smallest in this neighborhood at only 5,000 sq. Feet

 

[bigredfish]

Wow, don't you people sleep?

I would go with the 5241 Z12 bullets. This is the tried and true solution for many folks over the past 5+ years. They just work and 2MP is really all you need for LPR, there are actually benefits vs higher MP cams. I manage 5 of them in 3 locations.

Here's an example/solution I helped a buddy with.
Birdhouse LPR with the HFW5241E-Z12E

While its tempting to capture as close to the camera as possible, ideally you want the least angle you can get to allow the camera to get the best head on capture and more good frames to choose from. I'd recommend aiming to a target area approx 40-60 ft from the camera location each way. Zoom to 1 car length and dont try and make it into a wide area Overview cam. This is the common mistake for newbs, trying to do too much with one camera. If you need/want overview, add another camera for that.

5241 Z12 bullets at 35ft-100ft