My reputation predeceases me.

[iamnothim]

I'm retired. I owned a Cisco Systems partnership for 15 ish years. I know just enough to deal with my home network. Cat6 structured cable , RG6, FO to all the rooms. My engineers did all the configurations. All of my switches are gig, POE, Cisco and Netgear. I've tried various routers presently it's EEROS x 5. and a Firewalla Gold firewall. I love that little guy. It's exactly what I wanted in a firewall a port for the dirty side and a port for the clean side. I had a pfSense minnow box but I don't do Unix. (yes it has gui). I'm fortunate to live in an area where gig Internet is available.

I hate all that crap. I hire smart guy from Thumbtack to do everything. Except the cameras. Right now they're all Amcrest. But I'm going to axe ya'll about a different cam for the main street cam. The last bit of kit I bought 2 months back is a already Synology DS720+ with two Toshiba 7200rpm 10TB drives, two SAMSUNG 980 SSD 1TB - M.2 NVMe for cache. I love this NAS thing. I was using "Security Spy" from Ben Soft until Synology came along. Now it's Surveillance Station. Synology states that is supports over 7,600 IP cameras. The software works. Then the number of "other" apps that come with this box is mind blowing. Shared files, encryption, media servers, edge recording, b/u to cloud. I could go on from here >


<To here. But I will spare you. I would appreciate some direction. My street camera is an Amcrest IP4M-1053EW. It ok. I'd like to do better at night. PTZ is a waste without AI tracking capabilities. (But you know this) I'm looking at the JideTech PTZ POE model P14. With a name like "Jide Tech" I should secure my wallet and run. At $142 his is most likely the Chinese knock off mentioned in the Wiki thread. But $142 with tracking....I must fight the urge and move on. The Ctronics PTZ with tracking for $260 looks interesting. Looking at tracking popped into my pea brain this afternoon. A replacement camera I picked out arrived this afternoon. Pretty basic but I think solid. Note. After I ordered I read some of your posts about chasing Mpixels rates. I am further confuseled. Is the "DAHUA IPC-HFW2831T-ZAS-S2" REBRANDED BY VALUCAM. Basically an 8MP 4K Ultra HD motorize3d optical zoom. $150. I think I'v e overstayed my keyboard time. I do not have a 5th grader available to proof read this mess so I'm just gonna let it fly.

Many thanks for all the great work.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I'll spare you all the standard welcome verbiage I normally post.

Keep your wallet in your pocket with JideTech, either that or I'll give you my address and you can send me the money you'd spend. Yeah, you'll still be out the money but you won't have the frustration and disappointment so I am saving you something

The goto camera for an AI PTZ is the 49225 series from Dahua. It's a 1/2.8" sensor doing 2MP which is the "sweet spot" for night performance and resolution. There's a newer model, 49425 I believe, and I think that's a 1/1.8" sensor doing 4MP. There's also a "laser IR" model you might want to look at but the prices go up significantly, at least for my wallet.

In any event contact Andy at EmpireTech and he'll steer you in the right direction as well as give you a great price and excellent support. If you do decide on a 49225 definitely buy it from him. Dahua has stripped the AI, auto tracking, from it to get you to buy a more expensive model, but Andy supplies them with the AI firmware.

25X PTZ

Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus

Ok, so whats better than 1 review…….2 reviews……in tandem :) Read on to find out more. All, thanks to Andy (@empiretecandy ) we have a new 2MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a new PTZ with 4.8mm to 120mm focal...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCamTalk !

 

[iamnothim]

I'll spare you all the standard welcome verbiage I normally post.

Keep your wallet in your pocket with JideTech, either that or I'll give you my address and you can send me the money you'd spend. Yeah, you'll still be out the money but you won't have the frustration and disappointment so I am saving you something

The goto camera for an AI PTZ is the 49225 series from Dahua. It's a 1/2.8" sensor doing 2MP which is the "sweet spot" for night performance and resolution. There's a newer model, 49425 I believe, and I think that's a 1/1.8" sensor doing 4MP. There's also a "laser IR" model you might want to look at but the prices go up significantly, at least for my wallet.

In any event contact Andy at EmpireTech and he'll steer you in the right direction as well as give you a great price and excellent support. If you do decide on a 49225 definitely buy it from him. Dahua has stripped the AI, auto tracking, from it to get you to buy a more expensive model, but Andy supplies them with the AI firmware.

25X PTZ

Review - Dahua SD49225XA-HNR 2MP 25x Starlight + IR PTZ AI Camera with Deep IVS & SMD Plus

Ok, so whats better than 1 review…….2 reviews……in tandem :) Read on to find out more. All, thanks to Andy (@empiretecandy ) we have a new 2MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a new PTZ with 4.8mm to 120mm focal...

ipcamtalk.com

Sebastian
thanks for the tip!

I saw some sub-species of the 49225. Is there a document that does some splainen? What year did that model come out? I have a difficult time buying let’s call it “seasoned“ tech.
thanks for your time.

 

[iamnothim]

Welcome to IPCamTalk !

Yo. Thank you!
ill try to last the month before I’m shown the door

 

[mat200]

.. I would appreciate some direction. My street camera is an Amcrest IP4M-1053EW. It ok. I'd like to do better at night. PTZ is a waste without AI tracking capabilities. (But you know this) I'm looking at the JideTech PTZ POE model P14. .. I am further confuseled. Is the "DAHUA IPC-HFW2831T-ZAS-S2" REBRANDED BY VALUCAM. ..

Welcome @iamnothim

The current camera you have is a Amcrest IP4M-1053EW which has a 4MP 1/3" sensor. ( Dahua OEM camera )

For low light image capture you would have been better served with a 2MP 1/2.8” sensor model ( example IP2M-853EW - it looks like the current one you have, but has less MP and a larger sensor )

If you do not need a PTZ you can always get a 4MP and 1/1.8" fixed camera to cover your most critical low light view.

 

[sebastiantombs]

2MP may be "old tech" but with the right sensor size, 1/2.8" in this case, it still outperforms so many of the ~$200 class of cameras in every respect which makes it not actually "old tech". If you want newer tech the 49425 is the net one up. Have a look around the reviews posted here for the laser IR PTZ. It is 4MP and can produce absolutely amazing long range shots but that comes at a higher price needless to say. The ultimate is the "hunter" model which is actually two cameras in the same housing, one for an overview/targeting function and one for the real zoom in function. Never chase megapixels, chase the sensor size. More megapixels require larger sensor to keep performance under low light conditions. As the old saying goes, bigger is better when it comes to sensors. 1/3" and 1/2" sensors are the actual "old tech" of the camera world.

AI setup can be a daunting task, but is certainly doable with a little understanding and patience of what needs to be adjusted. The same is true of every camera. Leaving everything on "auto" is guaranteed to work well during the day and fail, miserably, at night.

 

[iamnothim]

Ya know this is one of those situations where I don’t want to hear/listen to what you are telling me. I want my spec sheet bingo to be so but you have all the experience and that is always the Mac Daddy factor. It’s a killer. Just say’n

 

[iamnothim]

Welcome @iamnothim

The current camera you have is a Amcrest IP4M-1053EW which has a 4MP 1/3" sensor. ( Dahua OEM camera )

For low light image capture you would have been better served with a 2MP 1/2.8” sensor model ( example IP2M-853EW - it looks like the current one you have, but has less MP and a larger sensor )

If you do not need a PTZ you can always get a 4MP and 1/1.8" fixed camera to cover your most critical low light view.


View attachment 92420
View attachment 92419

Always great to have a benchmark. Very helpful Thanks for posting.

 

[wittaj]

Yep, sensor size is way more important than MP size.

I have the 49225 and 49425 PTZ, but since they are both on the same 1/2.8" sensor, the 49225 kicks the 49425 at night.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor or larger. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor or larger. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Sensor sizing can confuse a lot of people LOL.

Is a 1/2.8" sensor bigger than a 1/1.8" sensor? Most people say yes LOL. But it is a fraction, so the 1/1.8" sensor is the bigger of the two.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Everyone like to believe that higher pixel counts are the most important thing when selecting a camera. This is false (and we will get to that), but it is easy to understand why people think this way. A higher pixel count (more MPs) will produce an image with more detail AS LONG AS THERE IS ENOUGH LIGHT to give good results. During the day, this is usually the case. So manufactures love to post daylight images of their cameras and brag about their pixel count. However you really need to pay attention to a camera's low light performance. After all, we are getting cameras to capture footage of undesired events. You are just as likely (actually more likely) to need to capture events at night as you are during the day. If a camera does not perform well in low/no light environments, then it isn't worth spending money on.

In reality, it is pixel density that is the most important factor in a camera's low light performance. This is a combination of the image sensor size and the number of pixels the camera has. If you have two cameras with the same size image sensor (let's say 1/2.8" for argument). One camera has 4mp resolution (2k) and one camera has 8mp resolution (4k). The pixel density on the chip will be 2 times greater with the 8mp camera vs the 4mp camera. This means each individual pixel is twice as small on the higher resolution camera. The smaller the physical pixel, the more light it needs to produce an image. So the 8mp camera will need roughly twice the amount of light to produce the same image as the 4mp camera. If you have a 2mp camera (1080p resolution), the pixel density of the 4mp camera is twice as much and it's 4 times as much on the 8mp camera.

Again, during the day, this isn't a big deal because there is generally plenty of light available. However in low light situations (ie at night), the pixel density will cause a huge difference in camera performance. Remember, the 8mp camera takes four times the amount of light to produce the same image. So if the 2mp camera can produce a good image with light fixture that has 2x100 watt light bulbs providing illumination, the 8mp camera needs 800 watts of light to produce the same image! Many times, there is no artificial illumination available and you have to rely on IR or moonlight/starlight for illumination. In these cases, you want a camera with the largest pixels available. This is why a 2mp camera with a large sensor is the best low/no light option when it comes to cameras.

We are just now seeing cameras with a 1/1.2" sensor. That's even bigger than the 1/1.8" that many of us use. Using a camera with that sensor will allow you to increase the resolution while keeping the same relative pixel density. So a 4mp camera with a 1/1.2" sensor may work about the same as a 2mp camera with a 1/18" sensor .

 

[wittaj]

To add on to what @The Automation Guy says and try a different way to understand, an analogy to try to understand why cameras need so much more light - let's look at a 4MP camera and this 4MP needs at least twice the amount of light as a 2MP at night for the same sensor. The sensor size is the same in each camera, but when you spread the "screen" of 4MP worth of pixel holes across the same sensor, it now has double the holes, but also double the "screen material" than the 2MP. A 4K camera would need 4 times the light of a 2MP or double the light of a 4MP for the same sensor.

Kind of hard to explain, but lets try to use a window screen as an analogy - take a window where the opening is fixed - that is the sensor - you add a screen to it (that represents 2MP) and looking out through the screen is a little darker because of the screen material. Now replace that screen with one that has double the holes (now it represents 4MP) and it will be darker looking through it because (while the resolution would be better) there is more screen material. At night time, look out your window with and without the screen and it will be darker looking through the screen than without it. If you are looking out your window to see the stars or the moon, do you look out the part of the window with the screen, or the upper portion without the screen material? Now obviously as it relates to a camera, you need to balance the amount of pixel holes with the screen material - too few holes (and thus less screen material) and the resolution suffers, and too many holes (and thus more screen material) and the more light that is needed.

 

[iamnothim]

Yep, sensor size is way more important than MP size.

I have the 49225 and 49425 PTZ, but since they are both on the same 1/2.8" sensor, the 49225 kicks the 49425 at night.

It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor or larger. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor or larger. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

Sensor sizing can confuse a lot of people LOL.

Is a 1/2.8" sensor bigger than a 1/1.8" sensor? Most people say yes LOL. But it is a fraction, so the 1/1.8" sensor is the bigger of the two.

I am “starting“ to understand. Thanks

 

[iamnothim]

I am “starting“ to understand. Thanks

I do remember my fractions. 1/1 = 1 One. Which is greater than 1/2 one half. Ready for integral calculus. Not

 

[wittaj]

I do remember my fractions. 1/1 = 1 One. Which is greater than 1/2 one half. Ready for integral calculus. Not

Glad you do LOL.

Many people come here thinking the 1/3" sensor is bigger than the 1/2.8" sensor LOL.

 

[looney2ns]

Don't do camera research on Amazon or Ebay.
Study this: Cliff Notes
Welcome, if you haven't yet, also study this:

 

[iamnothim]

I am “starting“ to understand. Thanks

Glad you do LOL.

Many people come here thinking the 1/3" sensor is bigger than the 1/2.8" sensor LOL.

I just dropped off my return of a Valutech 8MP Bullet. Back to square one I will Start looking at all the great material you folks have produced. That said I have significant learning disabilities so it’ll be fun. Interestingly. I find tech easier to read than non.

 

[iamnothim]

Don't do camera research on Amazon or Ebay.
Study this: Cliff Notes
Welcome, if you haven't yet, also study this:

Oh I dun saw dat

 

[iamnothim]

Don't do camera research on Amazon or Ebay.
Study this: Cliff Notes
Welcome, if you haven't yet, also study this:

What I must break all my habits in one day! I am an Amazon drone. The truck is at my house almost daily

 

[iamnothim]

I really had to return the bullet anyway because I discovered a bunch of holes from the Amcrest PTZ would show in my plaster. So I must get another PTZ. The plaster is hand trowel and not painted. If the holes are filled it would show like crazy