n3wb with questions for dahua system

[Wobert]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for a few days, and finally created an account in the hopes that I can get some help from people not trying to hit their quota.

I've been looking for a "CCTV" system for quite some time, and the more I have been reading, the more my requirements have changed, so the original idea of an 8 camera system for less than 500 USD is not really gonna cut it anymore

So, requirements changed from coax to IP (PoE), and from 8 cameras to 5 (because the wife went crazy of the thought of so many cameras).

After reading a lot of reviews, I think I have a preference to buy Dahua cameras, specifically from the green-savvy line. I was considering buying a dome camera, but on his site I read that they can cause problems with IR reflections etc., however I cannot find any side-by-side comparisons supporting that statement.

Q1) Can anyone direct me to a non-biased side-by-side comparison or review where the statement is supported?

I am planning to mount the cameras on the soffit, mostly from an aesthetic principle, but also because the fascia does not have a lot of room for the cameras (sort of like in this image: http://southernhomewithstyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/soffit.jpg).

Q2) Would that cause problems with IR reflections? (there will probably be 10"/25cm of soffit above/in front)
Q3) Would it be much better to place the cameras on the fascia?

If dome cameras are really a bad investment, I think I will get the eyeball-camera (I don't like the aesthetics of the bullet cameras). Either way...

Q4) Can they be mounted directly on the soffit or do I need a bracket or junction box?
Q5) Can they be mounted directly on the fascia (I see there are wall-brackets, perhaps that is what I need)?

I was considering connecting the cameras directly to a epoe NVR like this one: Aliexpress.com : Buy NVR5416 16P 4KS2E 16 Channel 1.5U 16PoE 4K&H.265 Pro Network Video Recorder free DHL shipping from Reliable Surveillance Video Recorder suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd
However, operating conditions are listed as "-10°C ~ +55°C (+14°F ~ +131°F), 86 ~ 106kpa". Since it will be placed in the attic, and conditions here will likely go below -10 C, I am a little worried that it will fail during winters.

Q6) Would it be a better idea to get a switch like this one, which is listed to -30 C: Aliexpress.com : Buy PFS3110 8P 96 Unmanaged Two layer industrial PoE switch Support IEEE802.3af, IEEE802.3at standard PFS3110 8P 96 from Reliable switch poe suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd , and then forward all signals to the basement through a single cable (basement already has servers and a ups).

If I forward signals through a single cable to the basement...
Q7) Would I still need a NVR to use Dahuas facial recognition system, or can I do that through through Blue Iris on a Ubuntu server (or possible a QNAB nas)?
Q8) Can I forward alarms from any of these setups, to a (not yet aqquired) alarm system?

Recently, they changed the lighting on the streets. It has become less "diffused" and more "spot-like". To the human eye, 4 places are lit brightly, while the rest of the place seems much darker (nearly black).

Q9) Would a 8mp camera be able to use that light and function without IR, or would I most likely get crappy images, and I should stick the their 2mp version instead? (I was considering something like this camera for the front of the building: Aliexpress.com : Buy IPC HDW5831R ZE 2017 New Arriving cameras 8MP WDR IR Eyeball Network Camera IPC HDW5831R ZE free DHL shipping from Reliable network camera suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd

Hmm, seems I created a wall of text here. I hope someone got through it and can help with my questions
Regards
W.

 

[looney2ns]

Welcome.
Its not advisable to put any sort of electronics in an attic.

Nobody here has a "quota". We're mostly all hobbyists and volunteers.

You'll not find many, if any reviews that are biased here.

Please read the Cliff Notes in the Wiki at the top of the page.
Then we'll go from there.

 

[mat200]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for a few days, and finally created an account in the hopes that I can get some help ..
Hmm, seems I created a wall of text here. I hope someone got through it and can help with my questions
Regards
W.

Welcome Wobert,

See you've already off to a good start, definitely look at the cliff notes which looney2ns referred to.

Also check out my notes, as there are some answers there. ( you can start from the higher numbers, as those are my most recent additions )
Looking for some advice and direction!

If you attic is not conditioned I would not recommend placing electronic computer equipment in there.

NVR5416 - that will hold 4 HDDs, many of us who have picked NVRs over Blue Iris + a PC have picked up the NVR5216 model, so you may want to look at the thread on that one also.

Remember to TEST the locations you are planning to put the cameras.
( see #63 in my notes )

W/regards to you home - you have to check if the soffits are strong enough - you may need to make something to hold the camera if not. ( if you are talking about a 2 story house.. the cameras will be mounted too high there... )

Reviews - see the member reviews here! We've got some really good quality information being shared here.

 

[Wobert]

Welcome.
Its not advisable to put any sort of electronics in an attic.

Nobody here has a "quota". We're mostly all hobbyists and volunteers.

You'll not find many, if any reviews that are biased here.

Please read the Cliff Notes in the Wiki at the top of the page.
Then we'll go from there.

Hi looney2ns,
Thank you for your reply.
What I didn't get out right, is that the only "help" I had received previously was from a guy trying to reach his sales targets.
I did not trust him to be unbiased, and after reading much more, I could see the system he was trying to sell me fit into the budget part of the requirements, and not much else.
I re-read the Cliff Notes, but I am still a big question mark on most of my listed questions.
For instance, if I use a bracket/junction box for mounting, I can bore a smaller hole for the cable, but that sounds to me like it is not required to use a bracket for mounting.

 

[Wobert]

Welcome Wobert,

See you've already off to a good start, definitely look at the cliff notes which looney2ns referred to.

Also check out my notes, as there are some answers there. ( you can start from the higher numbers, as those are my most recent additions )
Looking for some advice and direction!

If you attic is not conditioned I would not recommend placing electronic computer equipment in there.

NVR5416 - that will hold 4 HDDs, many of us who have picked NVRs over Blue Iris + a PC have picked up the NVR5216 model, so you may want to look at the thread on that one also.

Remember to TEST the locations you are planning to put the cameras.
( see #63 in my notes )

W/regards to you home - you have to check if the soffits are strong enough - you may need to make something to hold the camera if not. ( if you are talking about a 2 story house.. the cameras will be mounted too high there... )

Reviews - see the member reviews here! We've got some really good quality information being shared here.

Hi mat200,
Thank you for replying.
Attic is above the insulation, beneath the "underlay" (probably wrong translation), which means lots of air moving through.
In winter, the temperature can get down to about -20 C, in summer up to 35 C. Both well within the margins for the switch, but out of margins for the NVR.
My question is probably related to the correctness of the operation conditions of the Dahua equipment. Are they spot on, are there extra margins (like when calculating load bearing, the max value is usually set to ½ of ability), or are they opportunistic?
Unfortunately there is no way for me to take cables directly to the basement, without my wife killing me. I have to go through intermediary steps. The easiest is to gather them in the attic. A vague possibility is to drill down to the hallway, and setup the NVR there. I really don't want to do that if the equipment can live in the attic for 5+ years.
Hmm, perhaps NVR5216 is enough. I always think in 4 disks, as my go-to storage is raid 10, but I guess its not really needed here.
It's a 1 story house (if you don't count the cellar), so I can actually reach the soffit for cleaning, but would not like to do that, so I guess its the turrets for me.
But, my plan to position cams like the PIR in this photo, would leave me with a white "over-hang", which I really need to test before making any holes through the soffit.

 

[Wobert]

Hi @Wobert

Re my quota, I'm trying to get to the next stage above "n3wb", ironically this post might be the one that gets me there!

Re domes, like many answers -- It Depends.
I have a dome at my front porch and I have good luck with it. But it's VERY well protected. But...

1) As you'll read in the wiki, one of the major problems with domes is that UV light (ie sunlight) degrades the plastic of the dome over time, which will make the image cloudy and increase the other major problem of IR reflections. So a dome definitely has to be protected from sunlight. My front porch is protected from sunlight, so I'm ok there.

2) Domes also collect spider webs and dirt/dust/whatever on the dome. Which clouds the dome and increases IR reflection. So your dome has to be mounted in a location where you can easily wipe the dome every week or so. Mine is at face level at my front door, so whenever I go out the door and see dust, I wipe it off with a soft cloth.

3) Domes are inherently prone to IR reflection since both the lens and IR LEDs are inside the dome. They have a foam/rubber collar around the lens that presses against the dome to shield the lens from the LEDs. Some are better at this than others, I'm sure. I've been lucky with mine and I don't get any reflection. This is another place where sunlight would be bad, the UV light would probably degrade the foam collar over time.

I don't have any direct comparison pix, but I've been thinking about making some some time. If I do, I'll post here.

But... even if your eave/soffit/fascia is well protected from weather and UV, I wouldn't mount a dome there. Mainly because you wouldn't have easy access to wipe dust off the dome. I would go with a turret/eyeball.

Hi TheDank,
Thank you for your reply.
Your comment about spiderwebs is noted, I would hate having to clean the cameras more than 2 times a year.
Turrets it is.
I am still hoping I can mount them underneath the soffit, so they are out of the rain/snow, and thus requires even less care.
Hopefully I can figure this out before buying mounts, so I don't have to purchase both types.
It would be great with a fair test of dome vs turret vs bullet for IR reflection and so on. I doubt anyone gets sponsored for that though.

 

[mat200]

Hi mat200,
Thank you for replying.
Attic is above the insulation, beneath the "underlay" (probably wrong translation), which means lots of air moving through.
In winter, the temperature can get down to about -20 C, in summer up to 35 C. Both well within the margins for the switch, but out of margins for the NVR....

Hi Wobert,

Google did some tests and analytics, results:
Anything above 26-27 C ( 80 F ) will increase failure rates of electrical computer equipment significantly.

Thus as a rule - if you want longer life of your switches, NVRs, PCs, keep them at less temp. than that.

In terms of lower temp - normally less concerns if dry - more of an issue due to humidity and water condensing on equipment.

Also, few members use RAID for these systems. Constant streaming of video to RAIDed HDDs is not a popular option. ( potential performance issues and price being 2 points )

 

[looney2ns]

Hi looney2ns,
Thank you for your reply.
What I didn't get out right, is that the only "help" I had received previously was from a guy trying to reach his sales targets.
I did not trust him to be unbiased, and after reading much more, I could see the system he was trying to sell me fit into the budget part of the requirements, and not much else.
I re-read the Cliff Notes, but I am still a big question mark on most of my listed questions.
For instance, if I use a bracket/junction box for mounting, I can bore a smaller hole for the cable, but that sounds to me like it is not required to use a bracket for mounting.

Yes, you can drill a hole just big enough for the cable to pass. Then you will need to terminate the cable.

Hi mat200,
Thank you for replying.
Attic is above the insulation, beneath the "underlay" (probably wrong translation), which means lots of air moving through.
In winter, the temperature can get down to about -20 C, in summer up to 35 C. Both well within the margins for the switch, but out of margins for the NVR.
My question is probably related to the correctness of the operation conditions of the Dahua equipment. Are they spot on, are there extra margins (like when calculating load bearing, the max value is usually set to ½ of ability), or are they opportunistic?
Unfortunately there is no way for me to take cables directly to the basement, without my wife killing me. I have to go through intermediary steps. The easiest is to gather them in the attic. A vague possibility is to drill down to the hallway, and setup the NVR there. I really don't want to do that if the equipment can live in the attic for 5+ years.
Hmm, perhaps NVR5216 is enough. I always think in 4 disks, as my go-to storage is raid 10, but I guess its not really needed here.
It's a 1 story house (if you don't count the cellar), so I can actually reach the soffit for cleaning, but would not like to do that, so I guess its the turrets for me.
But, my plan to position cams like the PIR in this photo, would leave me with a white "over-hang", which I really need to test before making any holes through the soffit.

There is almost always a way to get cables from the attic to the cellar, neatly and hidden. Down through a wall, or inside a closet using conduit. If you don't have tools/skills to do that, hire that part out.

Your front door, Keep in mind, any cam mounted above 8ft, makes it really difficult to get a facial ID.

There is a huge collective of real world experience here, and the consensus is stay out of the attic with electronics.

Hi TheDank,
Thank you for your reply.
Your comment about spiderwebs is noted, I would hate having to clean the cameras more than 2 times a year.
Turrets it is.
I am still hoping I can mount them underneath the soffit, so they are out of the rain/snow, and thus requires even less care.
Hopefully I can figure this out before buying mounts, so I don't have to purchase both types.
It would be great with a fair test of dome vs turret vs bullet for IR reflection and so on. I doubt anyone gets sponsored for that though.

You can mount them under the soffits just fine. Many of us here have done exactly that.
The advice to use turret's over domes and bullets, again comes from many folks here that have lots of real world experience.
Lots of info in the Wiki about installing.

You came and asked for advice, you've been given said advice in good conscience. It gets tiring for the many regulars here that are trying to help, then new folks want to dispute said advice. Everything you have asked has been answered multiple times per week, 100's of times this month. Use search, spend time reading here. Thanks for @Mike, @bp2008 and @fenderman efforts, this is a huge huge repository of knowledge and info. A lot of it is condensed into the cliff notes courtesy of forum member @giomania . Take advantage of it. /soapbox.

 

[mat200]

.. A lot of it is condensed into the cliff notes courtesy of a member here (sorry I forgot his user name). Take advantage of it. /soapbox.

We can thank @giomania for his great contributions on that.

 

[Wobert]

You came and asked for advice, you've been given said advice in good conscience. It gets tiring for the many regulars here that are trying to help, then new folks want to dispute said advice. Everything you have asked has been answered multiple times per week, 100's of times this month. Use search, spend time reading here. Thanks for @Mike, @bp2008 and @fenderman efforts, this is a huge huge repository of knowledge and info. A lot of it is condensed into the cliff notes courtesy of forum member @giomania . Take advantage of it. /soapbox.

Hi,
It is not my intention to dispute any advice given, on the contrary, but I am trying to learn as much as possible, and my questions might not be phrased correctly as English is not my first language.
I heed all the advice given. I have changed specs from dome to eyeball, and all my hardware choices (and most likely the vendor too) is based on info found here.
I have already pitched the idea to my wife about having the NVR in the hallway, and she actually didn't fight it much. So, no tech in the attic (though getting it to the hallway is no easy matter).

So, I am nearly at the end of the journey, now its mostly about exactly which cameras I should get, as I am still uncertain if the 8mp will actually be good enough at nighttimes, or if the 2mp would be better. If only they had not changed those streetlights, the old ones were much better at spreading out the light