Natural Gas Generators

[randytsuch]

Every once in a while we lose power, so I bought a dual fuel portable generator.
Was a low budget project, so got a relatively small one, 4600 watts on propane. Note that you get about 10% less watts on propane.

I plan to only use propane so I won't have to worry about gas getting old, and having to clean out old gas out of the generator.
I have two 30 lb tanks for it. And I could use gas if I get desperate.

I also "built" a power invertor to go with my generator. I have a DC power supply, and an DC to AC pure sine wave invertor that provides clean power to my electronics.
Description here
Not sure if I could power electronics safely from my generator, but figured it was better to be safe so I put that together and have it stored in a tote bin for when power goes down.

I also adjusted my generator's speed (throttle screw), so its at 60 hz under load. It's pretty easy to do if you have a kill a watt or similar to read the frequency.

Lost power once, for about a day since getting the generator. Since internet still worked once I powered my modem and router, it was really nice to have backup power when most of my neighbors were screwed.

I only am going to use the gen to power the fridge and freezer in the garage, and some electronics. And some lights if its at night. I live in so cal, so no real temperature extremes to deal with

Randy

 

[Teken]

For those on a limited budget and can't afford a whole house generator that provides gobs of power. It's always important to know what each mission critical device will draw when starting up vs idle operations. More electronics are damaged by dirty power which can show up as a combination of a voltage rise (surge) or voltage sag (brown out). Knowing what the start up or inrush current required for each appliance helps in balancing the initial cost for said generator.

This is why energy monitoring is a must if you are ever serious about Energy Management / Energy Control.

Here is just a quick glimpse of my fridge which can reflect watts, amps, volt-amps, KWH, peak watts, power factor, etc.

 

[randytsuch]

When I was looking at generators, I used the power numbers that from the fridge's manual. When I measured actual power later with my kill a watt clone, the actual numbers were much lower than the manual numbers. There are also a bunch of websites that provide estimated wattage numbers to help size generators, but they also seem to run high. This doesn't give you the turn on surge though, just the draw while the fridge is running. So now my generator is probably overkill for my actual power use, but there is no harm there.

The other thing I have in my generator hook up instructions is to plug the fridge in, then wait a couple mins before plugging in the freezer. That way you only get one turn on surge at a time, which will be easier on your generator.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I used to subscribe to the one thing at a time when it came to transfer and load increases, too. Then I thought about it. Given that if there is a power failure we transfer to the generator within fifteen minutes the chance of the refrigerator and freezers coming on at the same time is pretty much nil. They sure don't warm up that fast We do shut down the water heater and power it back up maybe 15 minutes later, but that's a 3KW load.

 

[c hris527]

Would like to see another view of the piping and electrical as it goes into the home. That is one hell of a long pipe run there.

The picture is deceiving, The generator has to be like 3 feet from the house, so that pipe is less than 4 feet(Im away now) but I will check, just out of the frame is the meter and tee.

 

[randytsuch]

I used to subscribe to the one thing at a time when it came to transfer and load increases, too. Then I thought about it. Given that if there is a power failure we transfer to the generator within fifteen minutes the chance of the refrigerator and freezers coming on at the same time is pretty much nil. They sure don't warm up that fast We do shut down the water heater and power it back up maybe 15 minutes later, but that's a 3KW load.

The one time I had to use my generator, it was a while between losing power and getting the generator online, probably over an hour. Next time hopefully its sooner, but I'm not sure if it will be soon enough that they both don't come on right away. I agree that if you do it right away, its highly unlikely they both come on.

 

[BORIStheBLADE]

For those on a limited budget and can't afford a whole house generator that provides gobs of power. It's always important to know what each mission critical device will draw when starting up vs idle operations. More electronics are damaged by dirty power which can show up as a combination of a voltage rise (surge) or voltage sag (brown out). Knowing what the start up or inrush current required for each appliance helps in balancing the initial cost for said generator.

This is why energy monitoring is a must if you are ever serious about Energy Management / Energy Control.

Here is just a quick glimpse of my fridge which can reflect watts, amps, volt-amps, KWH, peak watts, power factor, etc.

Very cool. What are you using to capture the info?

 

[SouthernYankee]

Try something different. Look at getting an F150 Hybrid truck with the Pro power option. Add a transfer switch to your house.

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

I looked at those, and god damn you can't get the 36 gallon tank with the Hybrid 3.5 because the battery takes up the space

So you have to choose between the standard tank and Pro Power, or no pro power and 36 gallon

 

[Teken]

Very cool. What are you using to capture the info?

The bulk of the energy data is captured by the Dash Box and this same information is used to manage power delivery to key systems throughout the home. The home automation system than actively or reactively controls when something should be on, how long, terminates, and notifies via email, sms, voice, reader board.

All of the mission critical systems are overseen and managed by the Guardian Monitor which is tasked primarily in Force Protection of the home. When you have awareness of the energy consumed its easier to manage the same. There's simply no guessing if a generator / battery pack will be able to sustain the current draw and for how long because the energy monitoring system knows exactly what is being consumed, for how long, and if something is wrong.

It goes without saying having the ability to recall historic events provides critical insight as to how the weather impacted solar generation, heating & cooling, and energy used at any given period in time.

Don't want to derail the OP's thread here with information that isn't quite germane to the topic at hand. But have appended some extra screen shots of just some of hundreds of views of charts, graphs, tiles that can be viewed . . .

 

[c hris527]

Would like to see another view of the piping and electrical as it goes into the home. That is one hell of a long pipe run there.

Its just under 4 feet, The generator setback from the house is required because of basement windows and a sliding glass door, so no getting around this.

 

[Teken]

Looks way better having a different perspective! In the original image it appeared the electrical and gas line was 8 ~ 10 feet long!

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

I'd still trip over that for sure

 

[c hris527]

Some things to consider regardless of the brand you decide upon.

• Are there authorized vendors in your local area that carry all the parts.
• Almost all of the newer units must be activated by someone either the vendor / installer / maker.
• Always perform a load calculation so the generator is sized and capable of running what you need vs want.
• Read carefully what the generators specifications are for start up / inrush current and how its handled.
• This is always a good time to consider a model that offers load shedding capability.
• Remote Access: You'll want to confirm if this connection is local first vs cloud first.
• Integration: If Home Automation is important to you research which brands and models offer the same (Open API).
• Install: It goes without saying the install will make or break the product so make sure its done by a reputable company.
• Warranty: These are one of the few things I would seriously consider purchasing an extended warranty on.

My Unit had to be activated by a code generated by my transfer switch number and Generator S/N..Anyone can activate it.

 

[MyOldTools]

I have a 36kw Generac. It uses a 2.4L 4 cylinder Mitsubshi truck engine. I have a 500 gallon underground LP tank dedicated to it. It's about 10 years old now and works fine. Switch over is automatic 15 seconds after power loss. We're good for 10 days or so continuous.

 

[c hris527]

Looks way better having a different perspective! In the original image it appeared the electrical and gas line was 8 ~ 10 feet long!

All In All its been a good Unit, I sized it to Run My A/C Unit, I ended up installing a soft start kit for my A/C unit because it was bogging down a bit with other things running.

 

[IReallyLikePizza2]

I have a 36kw Generac. It uses a 2.4L 4 cylinder Mitsubshi truck engine. I have a 500 gallon underground LP tank dedicated to it. It's about 10 years old now and works fine. Switch over is automatic 15 seconds after power loss. We're good for 10 days or so continuous.

Very interesting. I was trying to figure out yesterday what brand engine mine would come with. I wonder if they are still using Mitsubshi engines. I expect the 2.4l in my 27 should be the same as the 36

 

[Teken]

My Unit had to be activated by a code generated by my transfer switch number and Generator S/N..Anyone can activate it.

That's really great to hear because way back in the day Generac was on this whole Authorized Only activation. If this can be done from any DIY self install that could save a large portion of the financial outlay. Does your unit have any sort of remote monitoring and if so can you integrate it with other 3rd party systems?

 

[c hris527]

That's really great to hear because way back in the day Generac was on this whole Authorized Only activation. If this can be done from any DIY self install that could save a large portion of the financial outlay. Does your unit have any sort of remote monitoring and if so can you integrate it with other 3rd party systems?

It Could but I do not want to change the controller out at this point. Its 10 years old and doing fine, to many electronic gadgets=too many possible failures.

 

[Old Timer]

If you want to add propane to a portable generator, look for your generator here.

Motorsnorkel by US Carburetion – Propane and Natural Gas Generator Conversion Kits

motorsnorkel.com

I have a 10k John Deere and found a kit that fits it. It works great, just runs through 30lb tanks pretty fast.
I got a quick disconnect and connected to our propane tank for the house. If you do this, I recommend a shutoff
valve before the quick disconnect, just in case it does not shut off.
I bought a kit for my Honda EU2000i, but never completely installed it. The regulator attaches to the outside of the unit,
and makes it a pain to carry around. Maybe some day I will install it with a quick disconnect so I can remove it.

Propane is so clean burning, that your oil will go for ever without getting dirty. Back in the 90's I had a F150 with
propane and used it 99% of the time. At 95k miles, it was hard to start, so I gave it a tune up. The spark plugs tips
were deteriorated so bad the center one was plum down in the porcelain.