Need help picking cameras

chiefwigms

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Long time lurker, first time poster...

Looking for advice on camera's & placement. I'm awful with mechanical/installs, so I'm trying to find local companies on craiglist that do residential installs. I already have a PC for Blue Iris setup, 1000ft CAT6 23AWG, and an Ubiquity EdgeSwitch 24 port 500W POE switch, so it'd just be cameras & install.

One guy said an install for ~8 cameras would be $600-$700 (just the install, no cameras), and he recommended the Amcrest IP8M-T2499EW (he linked to amazon, but it was the T2599EW model, as it seems like the 2499 isn't sold anymore).
Another guy wouldn't give me a model number but said he'd install LTS 4k IP Dome Camera 8MP@20fps, 2.8mm, H265+, MatrixIR 100' DC/PoE VP, MD 2.0 - Human and Vehicle Detection for $220/camera (including the camera price, which he says he gets for $170). He's flexible and said he'd use whatever camera I wanted (I'm assuming it'd be $50/cam).
Another guy said he'd put up 4 cams (on each of the corners, wouldn't give me model numbers), but quoted install at $249/cam, and said they'd be Dahua AI 5MP Starlight Fisheye Builtin Mic @ $199/cam.

The first guy said he'd try to conceal the ethernet, and the other 2 said they'd try to do most of the wiring in the attic. Neither of them ever heard of Blue Iris (I mentioned using Digital Watchdog as well) - and said to use NVRs, but it'd be up to me.

My main goal for the back/side yard is to find where my kids are as they run outside and won't respond. It'd be nice to have low light cameras near the garage just in case anyone tried to mess with our cars. Doesn't seem right that they'd want the same model camera for each location. Any advice is appreciated. I'd like to keep the cost per camera < $200.

Here are shots around the house - some of the trees & shed block the view, so that's why I figured it'd be ~8 cameras total:
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I put a drone up to get some shots at where the 2nd installer (who recommended 4 cameras) would look like:
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wittaj

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Those models are 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP, so the 2MP would kick its butt ALL NIGHT LONG.

Are they going to install on the 2nd floor soffit? If so, then IDENTIFY of a stranger is out of the question as the entire IDENTIFY in the DORI spec is vertical. They make good locations for overview cameras or varifocal where you are aimed further away.

Putting all of the same fixed lens 2.8mm camera is wrong unless it it totally for OBERSERVATION but not IDENTIFY especially at night. You need to select each camera for the goal you are looking to accomplish.

Chase sensor size, not MP. In many cases 4MP or 2MP is more than adequate.

Take a look at this thread that shows the importance of focal length over MP for IDENTIFY purposes, along with the most commonly recommended cameras based on price, performance day and night, and reliability:

 

chiefwigms

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Those models are 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP, so the 2MP would kick its butt ALL NIGHT LONG.

Are they going to install on the 2nd floor soffit? If so, then IDENTIFY of a stranger is out of the question as the entire IDENTIFY in the DORI spec is vertical. They make good locations for overview cameras or varifocal where you are aimed further away.

Putting all of the same fixed lens 2.8mm camera is wrong unless it it totally for OBERSERVATION but not IDENTIFY especially at night. You need to select each camera for the goal you are looking to accomplish.

Chase sensor size, not MP. In many cases 4MP or 2MP is more than adequate.

Take a look at this thread that shows the importance of focal length over MP for IDENTIFY purposes, along with the most commonly recommended cameras based on price, performance day and night, and reliability:

That's what I was trying to talk to them about, but they insisted that they never had complaints.. I saw that thread before and that's why at least in the front (garage & near the door) I'd want better low light performance for identity (I'm hoping they'd place it on the garage / entry and not the 2nd floor).

The rest of the cameras would just be for observation.
 

wittaj

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They never had complaints because the typical consumer has no idea what good quality is. They see the nice bright static image and think they are great.

They only realize how poor it is when something happens and best case is all they can tell the police is what time it happened because the person is a blob blur ghost because almost zero installers will spend the time to take the cameras off of default settings. And once you put in a fast enough shutter to eliminate blur, you need a lot of light for that to happen and that is when we see 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP struggle.

Through marketing, these consumer grade companies have convinced the average consumer that poor nighttime videos are acceptable. Consumers are conditioned to believe that you cannot get good quality night images from surveillance cameras.

Look at all the countless Nextdoor and FB posts where people are posting crap video and pics and not one person ever says "hey there are cameras that can give you better images", or if someone does, they are ignored as someone doesn't want to accept something is better than their $250 Ring camera... It is just accepted that this is the best that can be done.

The police are shocked when something happens and members here can actually provide them video and pictures that are useful. Even they are conditioned to believe that good night video isn't possible. Their exact words are "What Ring camera captured this?" And we are like it ain't no Ring LOL.
 
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mat200

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My main goal for the back/side yard is to find where my kids are as they run outside and won't respond. It'd be nice to have low light cameras near the garage just in case anyone tried to mess with our cars. Doesn't seem right that they'd want the same model camera for each location. Any advice is appreciated. I'd like to keep the cost per camera < $200.

If it is just to keep an eye on where your children are.. then I'd not worry about getting good ID images ..

In general, 2 stories are more of a challenge to wire .. perhaps dropping a conduit down from the attic to the 8 foot mark is the way I would good if I can not run the cat5e/6 under the siding ..
 
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They never had complaints because the typical consumer has no idea what good quality is.
Yup. And most folks never have a perp on cam to see how bad the cam performs.

Here are a few threads to look over that may help you in designing your system. They talk about cam placement, cam selection, and cam redundancy.




 

chiefwigms

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Thats a 15 camera house LOL....Heres a few popular models. model #'s are on screen except for one 5442 z4e bullet( top)
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- where would you put 15 of them? I don't mind spending more for some out front, and less for overall observation in the back. I'm new to this, so I'd rather get it right and not have cam buying regret when I could have gotten something better for a little more
 

mat200

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- where would you put 15 of them? I don't mind spending more for some out front, and less for overall observation in the back. I'm new to this, so I'd rather get it right and not have cam buying regret when I could have gotten something better for a little more
Hi @chiefwigms

Start with just a few covering the most critical areas .. once you start to learn what they can and can not do, you will find a few areas you want better coverage.

In general, I think 6 cameras covering the front of the house to be a good start ..
2 covering the driveway
2 covering the front door area
1 on each side of the house

you can add 1-2 cameras if you have a mailbox on the street or want to start with street coverage ..
you can add 1-2 cameras for LPR if you want to capture that ..
 

mat200

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Long time lurker, first time poster...

Looking for advice on camera's & placement. I'm awful with mechanical/installs, so I'm trying to find local companies on craiglist that do residential installs. I already have a PC for Blue Iris setup, 1000ft CAT6 23AWG, and an Ubiquity EdgeSwitch 24 port 500W POE switch, so it'd just be cameras & install.

One guy said an install for ~8 cameras would be $600-$700 (just the install, no cameras), and he recommended the Amcrest IP8M-T2499EW (he linked to amazon, but it was the T2599EW model, as it seems like the 2499 isn't sold anymore).
Another guy wouldn't give me a model number but said he'd install LTS 4k IP Dome Camera 8MP@20fps, 2.8mm, H265+, MatrixIR 100' DC/PoE VP, MD 2.0 - Human and Vehicle Detection for $220/camera (including the camera price, which he says he gets for $170). He's flexible and said he'd use whatever camera I wanted (I'm assuming it'd be $50/cam).
Another guy said he'd put up 4 cams (on each of the corners, wouldn't give me model numbers), but quoted install at $249/cam, and said they'd be Dahua AI 5MP Starlight Fisheye Builtin Mic @ $199/cam.

The first guy said he'd try to conceal the ethernet, and the other 2 said they'd try to do most of the wiring in the attic. Neither of them ever heard of Blue Iris (I mentioned using Digital Watchdog as well) - and said to use NVRs, but it'd be up to me.

My main goal for the back/side yard is to find where my kids are as they run outside and won't respond. It'd be nice to have low light cameras near the garage just in case anyone tried to mess with our cars. Doesn't seem right that they'd want the same model camera for each location. Any advice is appreciated. I'd like to keep the cost per camera < $200.

Here are shots around the house - some of the trees & shed block the view, so that's why I figured it'd be ~8 cameras total:
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I put a drone up to get some shots at where the 2nd installer (who recommended 4 cameras) would look like:
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Hi @chiefwigms

Since you have a corner house, I would plan for more cameras as you have a side exposed ..

I would consider running external conduit down by the water downspouts and mount cameras about 6-8 feet high ( about 2M ) ..

possible also to run external rated cat5e/6 cables also and paint them to match the trim / walls .. if you have vinyl siding can be easy enough to run under that if the vinyl is fairly new and not brittle ..

I would run N+1+ cat5e/6 cables .. as sooner or later you will find you want to double up and add a camera or 2 to particular locations.

Here's an example of what I would be looking at for places to test positions ..


cornerhome.png
 

looney2ns

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Obvious the guys you talked to, don't have a clue about how to choose the proper cams or proper placement.
I suggest you purchase one camera such as a Dahua 5442 varifocal, and get yourself familiar with the camera.
Put it on a portable temporary test rig and see how it looks in different locations.
Make a test rig out of a 8ft 2x4, 5 gal bucket, rocks for ballast.
Study this: Cliff Notes, just ignore the cam recommendations as they are out dated.
 

Ri22o

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You might check out my thread below. I came from originally having mostly overview cameras with the thought of just wanting to be able to see what was outside and watch my daughter as she was playing to now changing and adding views/angles to hopefully have more usable footage in case something were to happen where I would need to ID someone.

I have been able to get most of my original positions to work with my new mentality of install locations, but there are some I would likely have placed differently if I could go back and start over. I am in the process of having a deck installed and it's nice knowing what I know now and have made more deliberate choices with the placement of the cameras I will be installing in that area.

I will also add: don't worry about what your neighbors have to say if you end up with 10, 15, 30+ cameras. There will come a time that they will ask you if you caught something and/or they will ask you to help them put together a system.

 
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