You're obviously blinded by your immense superiority so I won't waste my time with a thoughtful response. If you can't comprehend the benefit of discussing possible use cases of Ryzen/Threadripper to gauge what's possible and what others think based on various degrees of expertise and use cases, then that nullifies this discussion.
New AMD Ryzen
- Thread starter bennuss
- Start date
You're obviously blinded by your immense superiority so I won't waste my time with a thoughtful response. If you can't comprehend the benefit of discussing possible use cases of Ryzen/Threadripper to gauge what's possible and what others think based on various degrees of expertise and use cases, then that nullifies this discussion.
fenderman
Staff member
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There is no benefit.. that's the point... it will always perform worse than Intel because of lacks quicksync... It will also always cost more than Intel systems available from Dell business outlets or hp business...will also cost much more to run....so only a complete idiot would buy amd..the only person who can make the change with respect to Nvidiain not part of the discussion..it's all a waste of time...and yes I am clearly superior to you...
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Hi guys,
Just wanted to make an update on this thread. I have been using Blue Iris for a number of years (still learning of course !!) exclusively on Intel based systems.
My latest system was an Intel based system i7-4790K, 16GB of RAM + hdds. I normally to direct-to-disk recording 24x7 and have enough hdd space to hold recordings for about 3 weeks (using 3 hdds). My cameras are:
7 x Dahua IPC-HDW5231r-z
2 x Dahua SD49225T-HN
All cameras are set at 25fps, full 1080 resolution
All worked very well on my Intel system. During the night I saw about 10% CPU usage (+ about 55% on the GPU), while during the day it was hovering around 20% with peaks to a maximum of around 30% CPU usage (+ 55% or so GPU usage).
System was very responsive even when I RDP in to it and open BI Management screen (usage will jump to about 50% +).
Now, I have a few other physical systems around the house - namely a SuperMicro based firewall and another computer used as a virtualization server.
Lately I was looking for ways of consolidating as many physical systems as I could into one single computer in the name of saving power and freeing up some space around the place.
I have decided that an AMD Threadripper will be my system of choice for this (1950x with 32 cores, lots of ram - I have 112GB in it right now - Samsung Pro NVME M2 drive for the OS components only of all the virtual servers, a few spinning disks for all the data partitions of the virtual drives/backups, a couple of NICs to pass-through to virtual servers where required).
So I built up the system using ProxMox. All my existing virtual servers were migrated to this new box plus the other few physical servers too. One day when AMD will fully fix the GPU passthrough my gaming desktop will also be migrated to this too.
The only server left was the Blue Iris server. So I decided to test. Shut down the i7 server and built a new Windows 10 virtual server on my Threadripper box. I gave it 8 cores and 16GB of RAM. I took the HDDs out of the i7 box and pass them through to the new Win10 BI virtual server. The new BI virtual server saw them as they were - intact with the existing partitions and all the data (recorded videos) still on them. I applied my exported BI settings from the i7 Blue Iris box to this new BI visualized server.
System is happily direct recording to disk 24/7 (just as before). Is not skipping anything. CPU load is consistently sitting around 20% to 30% with 6 of the assigned cores doing most of the work and the 2 remaining cores only seeing utilization over 20% when I RDP to the virtual server. Never seen the cores spike up more than 60% even with BI open watching all cameras. Alerts work just as before. Delay from live camera feeds are just they were on the i7 system. I can view recordings and alerts just fine. Memory usage is 5Gb at the very top so I might go with only 8GB instead of 16GB.
Overall I see nothing that is different than when I was using the i7 system. Nothing at all. The move to the Threadripper based virtual BI virtual server happened about 1 week ago. Yesterday I switched off my i7 BI box. I realized I would not need it anymore and from now on I will be using the new BI virtual server.
I must admit that initially I did not believe this new AMD Threadripper system will work well for this - moving my i7 BI to a virtual server was NEVER part of my plan at all especially on an AMD system!
Turns out I was wrong and will be keeping the virtualized system instead of the physical one.
I will end this by saying that I just wanted to update this with my experience. I am not saying that Intel is better than AMD or vice-versa. What I am saying is that what I have now (virtualized BI server on AMD Threadripper CPU) works just as well as my previous i7 BI physical server and I will stay with this for now. Plus with the Threadripper 1950X having 32 cores in total I have room to add more cores to my new BI virtual server if I decide to add more cameras (or higher MP cameras) in the future. This new computer It allowed me to achieve my goal - consolidate 3 physical computers into 1 so i can save power. Plus in the near future (I hope) I can add my gaming desktop to it with proper GPU passthrough.
Just as an overall reference - my Threadripper system running around 20 virtual servers in total (including the BI one) has a total overall usage of about 15% MAX across the 32 cores. So yeah plenty of room to add more virtual server or more core to the BI virtual server.
Edit - just red the post above mine - I hope I am not a complete idiot Fenderman for going with an AMD system that works for my needs and performance is on par with my previous systems
Just wanted to make an update on this thread. I have been using Blue Iris for a number of years (still learning of course !!) exclusively on Intel based systems.
My latest system was an Intel based system i7-4790K, 16GB of RAM + hdds. I normally to direct-to-disk recording 24x7 and have enough hdd space to hold recordings for about 3 weeks (using 3 hdds). My cameras are:
7 x Dahua IPC-HDW5231r-z
2 x Dahua SD49225T-HN
All cameras are set at 25fps, full 1080 resolution
All worked very well on my Intel system. During the night I saw about 10% CPU usage (+ about 55% on the GPU), while during the day it was hovering around 20% with peaks to a maximum of around 30% CPU usage (+ 55% or so GPU usage).
System was very responsive even when I RDP in to it and open BI Management screen (usage will jump to about 50% +).
Now, I have a few other physical systems around the house - namely a SuperMicro based firewall and another computer used as a virtualization server.
Lately I was looking for ways of consolidating as many physical systems as I could into one single computer in the name of saving power and freeing up some space around the place.
I have decided that an AMD Threadripper will be my system of choice for this (1950x with 32 cores, lots of ram - I have 112GB in it right now - Samsung Pro NVME M2 drive for the OS components only of all the virtual servers, a few spinning disks for all the data partitions of the virtual drives/backups, a couple of NICs to pass-through to virtual servers where required).
So I built up the system using ProxMox. All my existing virtual servers were migrated to this new box plus the other few physical servers too. One day when AMD will fully fix the GPU passthrough my gaming desktop will also be migrated to this too.
The only server left was the Blue Iris server. So I decided to test. Shut down the i7 server and built a new Windows 10 virtual server on my Threadripper box. I gave it 8 cores and 16GB of RAM. I took the HDDs out of the i7 box and pass them through to the new Win10 BI virtual server. The new BI virtual server saw them as they were - intact with the existing partitions and all the data (recorded videos) still on them. I applied my exported BI settings from the i7 Blue Iris box to this new BI visualized server.
System is happily direct recording to disk 24/7 (just as before). Is not skipping anything. CPU load is consistently sitting around 20% to 30% with 6 of the assigned cores doing most of the work and the 2 remaining cores only seeing utilization over 20% when I RDP to the virtual server. Never seen the cores spike up more than 60% even with BI open watching all cameras. Alerts work just as before. Delay from live camera feeds are just they were on the i7 system. I can view recordings and alerts just fine. Memory usage is 5Gb at the very top so I might go with only 8GB instead of 16GB.
Overall I see nothing that is different than when I was using the i7 system. Nothing at all. The move to the Threadripper based virtual BI virtual server happened about 1 week ago. Yesterday I switched off my i7 BI box. I realized I would not need it anymore and from now on I will be using the new BI virtual server.
I must admit that initially I did not believe this new AMD Threadripper system will work well for this - moving my i7 BI to a virtual server was NEVER part of my plan at all especially on an AMD system!
Turns out I was wrong and will be keeping the virtualized system instead of the physical one.
I will end this by saying that I just wanted to update this with my experience. I am not saying that Intel is better than AMD or vice-versa. What I am saying is that what I have now (virtualized BI server on AMD Threadripper CPU) works just as well as my previous i7 BI physical server and I will stay with this for now. Plus with the Threadripper 1950X having 32 cores in total I have room to add more cores to my new BI virtual server if I decide to add more cameras (or higher MP cameras) in the future. This new computer It allowed me to achieve my goal - consolidate 3 physical computers into 1 so i can save power. Plus in the near future (I hope) I can add my gaming desktop to it with proper GPU passthrough.
Just as an overall reference - my Threadripper system running around 20 virtual servers in total (including the BI one) has a total overall usage of about 15% MAX across the 32 cores. So yeah plenty of room to add more virtual server or more core to the BI virtual server.
Edit - just red the post above mine - I hope I am not a complete idiot Fenderman for going with an AMD system that works for my needs and performance is on par with my previous systems
Nice to see some real data. People can argue theoreticals all they want, but real data is all that matters. Hard to even catch the AMD chips on efficiency. My i7 BI system runs up near TDP only partially loaded.
I'm not sure where the Intel chips may bottleneck with BI and HA, but would be interesting to see the best Intel has to offer at 95W (i7-8700k) go up against the best AMD has to offer at 95W (Ryzen7-1800X), with real power consumption numbers at various loads. If Ryzen can hold up decently, the 16-core chip could be the holy grail for large systems. Intel has nothing with quicksync over 6-cores. If Ryzen 16c is equal in Bi to the 6-core intel with HA, then there's no point.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Wrong... Intel is much more efficient... there is something wrong with your system if it runs near tdp when partially loaded...you are likely calculating hard drive and/or video card power consumption or have a really inefficient power supply or a much older intel processor....that said, how close it operates near tdp is irrelevant, what does matter is the actual power consumption, under the same camera load...
...compare to the i7-8700...it will blow the amd away and save lots of cash... AMD always was and still is a terrible choice for blue iris.. always run blue iris and any other vms on bare metal...
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fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
- 36,892
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Since you asked...Yes you are an idiot..see my posts above...run blue iris on bare metal...you post no power consumption numbers...Hi guys,
Just wanted to make an update on this thread. I have been using Blue Iris for a number of years (still learning of course !!) exclusively on Intel based systems.
My latest system was an Intel based system i7-4790K, 16GB of RAM + hdds. I normally to direct-to-disk recording 24x7 and have enough hdd space to hold recordings for about 3 weeks (using 3 hdds). My cameras are:
7 x Dahua IPC-HDW5231r-z
2 x Dahua SD49225T-HN
All cameras are set at 25fps, full 1080 resolution
All worked very well on my Intel system. During the night I saw about 10% CPU usage (+ about 55% on the GPU), while during the day it was hovering around 20% with peaks to a maximum of around 30% CPU usage (+ 55% or so GPU usage).
System was very responsive even when I RDP in to it and open BI Management screen (usage will jump to about 50% +).
Now, I have a few other physical systems around the house - namely a SuperMicro based firewall and another computer used as a virtualization server.
Lately I was looking for ways of consolidating as many physical systems as I could into one single computer in the name of saving power and freeing up some space around the place.
I have decided that an AMD Threadripper will be my system of choice for this (1950x with 32 cores, lots of ram - I have 112GB in it right now - Samsung Pro NVME M2 drive for the OS components only of all the virtual servers, a few spinning disks for all the data partitions of the virtual drives/backups, a couple of NICs to pass-through to virtual servers where required).
So I built up the system using ProxMox. All my existing virtual servers were migrated to this new box plus the other few physical servers too. One day when AMD will fully fix the GPU passthrough my gaming desktop will also be migrated to this too.
The only server left was the Blue Iris server. So I decided to test. Shut down the i7 server and built a new Windows 10 virtual server on my Threadripper box. I gave it 8 cores and 16GB of RAM. I took the HDDs out of the i7 box and pass them through to the new Win10 BI virtual server. The new BI virtual server saw them as they were - intact with the existing partitions and all the data (recorded videos) still on them. I applied my exported BI settings from the i7 Blue Iris box to this new BI visualized server.
System is happily direct recording to disk 24/7 (just as before). Is not skipping anything. CPU load is consistently sitting around 20% to 30% with 6 of the assigned cores doing most of the work and the 2 remaining cores only seeing utilization over 20% when I RDP to the virtual server. Never seen the cores spike up more than 60% even with BI open watching all cameras. Alerts work just as before. Delay from live camera feeds are just they were on the i7 system. I can view recordings and alerts just fine. Memory usage is 5Gb at the very top so I might go with only 8GB instead of 16GB.
Overall I see nothing that is different than when I was using the i7 system. Nothing at all. The move to the Threadripper based virtual BI virtual server happened about 1 week ago. Yesterday I switched off my i7 BI box. I realized I would not need it anymore and from now on I will be using the new BI virtual server.
I must admit that initially I did not believe this new AMD Threadripper system will work well for this - moving my i7 BI to a virtual server was NEVER part of my plan at all especially on an AMD system!
Turns out I was wrong and will be keeping the virtualized system instead of the physical one.
I will end this by saying that I just wanted to update this with my experience. I am not saying that Intel is better than AMD or vice-versa. What I am saying is that what I have now (virtualized BI server on AMD Threadripper CPU) works just as well as my previous i7 BI physical server and I will stay with this for now. Plus with the Threadripper 1950X having 32 cores in total I have room to add more cores to my new BI virtual server if I decide to add more cameras (or higher MP cameras) in the future. This new computer It allowed me to achieve my goal - consolidate 3 physical computers into 1 so i can save power. Plus in the near future (I hope) I can add my gaming desktop to it with proper GPU passthrough.
Just as an overall reference - my Threadripper system running around 20 virtual servers in total (including the BI one) has a total overall usage of about 15% MAX across the 32 cores. So yeah plenty of room to add more virtual server or more core to the BI virtual server.
Edit - just red the post above mine - I hope I am not a complete idiot Fenderman for going with an AMD system that works for my needs and performance is on par with my previous systems
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Look guys I am not going to get into arguments here. In the past I agreed that Intel CPU + bare metal server was the way to go for BI. But I got a new system for something else. Decided to test BI as well. So I tested it. It worked. Happy days.
I just wanted to share my experience and how it all works for me. You have to make up your own mind if AMD will work for you too or not.
Fenderman: in regards to power usage there is no need for me start measuring power etc. I know for a fact that the systems I was going to end up with:
• 20W Intel® Atom™ Processor C2758
• 130W i7-3820
• 91W i7-6700k
• 88W I7-4790K
• 329W total + extra for motherboards, video cards, memory, hdds, ssds, NICs etc
Are not that efficient compared with the system I actually ended up with:
• 180W AMD Threadripper X1950x + 1 motherboard, less hdds, less ssds, less memory, less NICs and NO Video Card as I can run the system headless after the initial install.
The bonus (after achieving my aim to reduce my power bill and gaining more space) is that it all works fine (including the BI virtual computer) just as it did when it was on bare metal. Plus I can get some $$ back by selling all that extra hardware.
I just wanted to share my experience and how it all works for me. You have to make up your own mind if AMD will work for you too or not.
Fenderman: in regards to power usage there is no need for me start measuring power etc. I know for a fact that the systems I was going to end up with:
• 20W Intel® Atom™ Processor C2758
• 130W i7-3820
• 91W i7-6700k
• 88W I7-4790K
• 329W total + extra for motherboards, video cards, memory, hdds, ssds, NICs etc
Are not that efficient compared with the system I actually ended up with:
• 180W AMD Threadripper X1950x + 1 motherboard, less hdds, less ssds, less memory, less NICs and NO Video Card as I can run the system headless after the initial install.
The bonus (after achieving my aim to reduce my power bill and gaining more space) is that it all works fine (including the BI virtual computer) just as it did when it was on bare metal. Plus I can get some $$ back by selling all that extra hardware.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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This post proves you have no clue as to what you are doing...you are simply listing the TDP of the cpu vs the actual power consumption on the same load....you have not reduced your power bill but rather wasted money on an expensive powerhog cpu and now are looking for a way to justify it. And you will have issues with the vm, eventually...good luck
I have been Using a AMD FX8350 for my Blue iris for the past 4-5 Years, This server runs 24/7 at a Bingo facility seating 300 players. I have 32 Cameras 15fps in normal areas, 30fps in high cash areas. I have never had a problem with our AMD Processor, Yes, they use more power, as it stands 48-64% CPU usage, running at 51c, 125.1 Watts. Intel makes great products no one is taking that away from them, in fact we use them on our 2008R2 server and workstations however as it is now time to overhaul the video server(40,000 hours of use) . We are most Likely going to go with a Ryzen Threadripper 1950x. So it was nice to see that someone is using the Threadripper... MnM keep updating us if anything changes. GWT
fenderman
Staff member
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No one says it wont work...the problem is it costs way more in the long run...an intel system under the same load would use 75w or so (possibly less)...So any savings gained by going the cheap route is negated...and for most here that buy pre-built systems, intel systems are CHEAPER to buy because there is much more supply available..
Reading and comprehension?
"...I got a new system for something else. Decided to test BI as well. So I tested it. It worked. Happy days"
My purchase decision was made way before I decided to try BI. If it was expensive or not that depends on everyone's' circumstances... so I would not go into that nor try and generalize. Also no need to justify anything as I made an informed decision about my purchase before it was actually purchased.
And believe me YOU will also have issues with your physical server - components will die, MS will make sure they will botch an update for you at some stage etc.... same as me. So far I do not have any performance related issues with my virtual server. And I dont anticipate I will.
fenderman
Staff member
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whatever makes you feel better.....I run over 20 BI servers...all bare metal...had 1 power supply failure over the past 5 years...Do as you please..my advice here is for others not to make dumb decisions based on misinformation you provide. There are fixed issues that can occur, you are adding to them...With your load on the threadripper at 15 percent you could have easily used a much more efficient and much CHEAPER intel processor...so yes, its your reading comprehension and likely some basic math skill that needs help.
I hear you on that Fenderman, For us its not so important we are a commercial facility, we can afford to have someone come in and build our equipment. power consumption is a mute point our video severance has saved us about $10,000 in cash mistakes (not theft, just dumb mistakes like putting cash into the wrong places, banks coming up short, People saying they paid with a 20 when in reality they paid with a 10...) So for me, $10,000= is probably way more then what i would be saving in kwH. But like you said, we are not your typical user. On a side note, we will probably be having to move away from BI as we add more equipment, and i speak for everyone here that uses it, It will be a sad day, JUST REALLY REALLY GREAT SOFTWARE IT HAS BEEN A WORKHORSE!!!!!
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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The fact that you saved 10k is meaningless, you would have saved the same money on an intel based system...generally what happens is the person building the system doesnt care about power only his bottom line so they try to save a few dollars on the processor..
there are great commercial packages like avigilon/exacq/DW spectrum...those also use way less processing power...
well for you probably not, for us AMD had not done any wrong by us, 40,000 hours of run time minus Restarts on windows updates, and down time for cleanings. It has done better then we expected, but then again I might have won the Silicon Lottery, as when they stress tested this server, our builder said it ran for 3 days without incident. the reason we went with AMD was when we where presented with a Build with a budget of 5k. our builder gave us more bang for the buck. and who knows maybe we did, maybe we did not, but 40,000 ours of run time. is pretty darn good in my book. I would like to say "that our intel based server has crashed more and it has, but that is a completely different animal. But no one ever gets fired for recommending Intell it is a bench mark standard just like dell, and IBM. For us, we took a chance, and it paid off, that might not be everyone's experience. For Us we are keeping a close eye on the Treadripper, So i am interested to see how well it preforms and what problems will pop up longevity wise, its a lot of bang for the buck.
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fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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Like I said, any processor will run for 5 years 24/7 no problem...the processor has no effect on crashes...you have something else going on with your other server...there was nothing special about your system....if you paid 5k for it, you were seriously ripped off...sounds like someone took advantage of you...
Frenderman, yes any processor will run 24/7 as long as it cool fully loaded or not. (note to everyone Make sure you change your thermal past every few years) But you saying "the processor has no effect on crashes" is kinda like a corner saying they died of "Heart Failure". Ultimately we all die of heart failure, (our heart stop beating) CPU do not crash, they just fault, and safety measures kick in(AT SOME POINT EVERYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE WILL GO BELLY UP). for me A CPU Failure, the computer turns off unsafely and abruptly). as you said its not the CPU Causing the crash, It was technically probably the cooling system in most cases not all of them. Yes Blue screen is typically a R/W error somewhere RAM, and or HD Sector... I don't know how we got off subject but here, I have a lot of Respect for you Fenderman, I think it was you that showed me how to fix my corrupted BI data Base, But AMD is not a bad choice, In fact right now they are giving Intel a run for there money, This is good for everyone, The redheaded step child of intel just pushed a product that does not beet every Intel processor by any means, They just set a price point for a vary strong processor that intel would charges twice as much for. Can we agree on that? Personally i think this is good for all of us. Intel now need to come back to the plate. for the consumers that cant afford 1k chips, Guess what Intel dropped its prices on most of its chips. This was a good thing if your a avid Intel person. you too are now getting more bang for your buck. anyhow way off topic. I know i can run more cameras on my AMD chip, Yes it cost me more in power usage long term, But that was offset. I paid 400+ for may AMD vs 900 for that savings i got to have a 2 more cameras at the time. Do i regret it? Not at all.
AMD is now a little bit more of a force, it will be good for us the end users.
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And FYI, 5K in 2013 for 20TB Raid 6 4U rack mount server is not being Ripped off. This project went out to bid, I use to work for Siemens Automation. your kinda making me think your like 17 years old right now.
Can I ask you a question? Besides shopping and building a few custom computers have you done any industrial equipment? Industrial Automation, Servers with 12 Hard drives running Raid 6, Custom code? and i am not talking about for a home user, I am talking about industry, where down time does not cost a headache, I am talking $1,000 of dollars per hour of lost revenue if your wrong? Then backing your choice with your own company finances? Are we on the same playing field? Well I do, AMD did not disappoint in my application.
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Threadripper 1950x is extreme overkill if used just for a Blue Iris load that runs on an FX8350. In fact regardless of camera load you're probably better off with an i7-8700 or i7-8700K. Thanks to hardware acceleration, they should be capable of handling a similar camera load, but at a third or half the power. You'd save several hundred $$$ on the purchase price and several hundred more on electricity bills over the life of the system. If you choose a system that runs 50 watts higher, that is 438 kilowatt hours per year. At the U.S. average rate of 12 cents per kWh, that is an extra $4.38 per month that you run the system (could be higher or lower depending on your actual electricity prices). That doesn't even factor in additional A/C runtime to remove the extra heat produced by a less efficient system.
Unless you intend to build one server to act as a virtualization host and retire multiple old servers, AMD Threadripper just doesn't make sense.
Unless you intend to build one server to act as a virtualization host and retire multiple old servers, AMD Threadripper just doesn't make sense.