New Dahua install

Discussion in 'Installation Pics' started by j4co, Dec 20, 2016.

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  1. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    After some waiting time I now have finally the drawings of the new house. Some parts are still under discussion, but the general idea will not change anymore.

    So this thread will start off with drawings and not yet pictures as the house needs to be built still.

    At this moment I am hoping to get some good advise and idea's how to improve things.

    Here is the outline of the area where we built
    [​IMG]
    So there is a road where houses are above in a row. Most are not attached, some are.
    Our house is the one with the solar sign on top.
    On the bottum of the picture is water with some "islands" where 4 houses are built on each of them. So we will have free view over the water from the living room.

    Across the water it is like 60 meter and than there are houses again.
    Behind our garden is a 25-30 meter deep piece of trees and bushes.

    More detailed view of the house looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    sorry for the quality of this, it is from 3 different pdf files where i copy the info out. Had to turn the sub pictures to fit on the back picture and than the the scale was not the same :(

    The measurements are in milimeters..

    Sensors:
    For now I have bought Optex AX-100 kit for the back garden (top of picture shown as yellow lines running near the fences) This will be 3 runs, so I will get alert if someone climbs over the fence either left, middle or right side.

    For the front of the house I have bought one Optex VXI-DAM. Intend to use that in the front of the house near our car parking places, and on the other side of the house near the gate there.

    Cameras and mounts:
    I intend to use dahua camera's, so will use the PFB2xx series of mounts. That consist of a plate you mount on the wall and you hook up the rest of the mount and lock that in place with short bolt.
    This mount is so flexible to use (need PFB202W for the mini PTZ and PFB203W for the new Turret)

    For larger ptz on the backsie of the house i did not decide yet. Most likely a HNI version with tracking.


    This shows the front of the house with the IR and cameras I think I will place.

    [​IMG]

    It shows 2* 90 degrees 10 watt IR units (red lines) that are good for 16 meter reach. Installed under the eve and looking down.

    I intend to install a starlight varifocal 5231R-Z turret at the entry door (where the person is on the drawing) this is under carport. On the right side of the garage i install another one for the 2nd car.

    In blue is the forward looking Optex VXI-DAM (wired dual IR and radar) that I want to use as alarm and not the internal camera logic for movement.

    Will mount it to the support pole where the carport is on. The sensors in the VXI-DAM can be turned to left or right for some 45 degrees internally. Than it is more to the front, so less part of the cars when the are there are in the way for the sensor.


    As for the 2 camera's on the front of the house. I do not have immediate need for them, as our cars will be parked under the carport basically. But I need to order conduit in the wall, which is like 70 euro for a run. If I do not do it now, I can never get a camera there without running external conduit (which I do not want)
    So a mini PTZ seemed the most logic way, I can simply turn them where I need them.
    Since the built will take more than 1 year, perhaps a mini ptz with new exmor chip will come so with the IR I can put in front of the house that would be very nice combination.




    Right side view on the house would look like this:
    [​IMG]

    Left top you see the IR on the front of the house (Red lines).
    Under the carport are the 5231R-Z turrets close to the house door (green lines) and also on other side of the garage door wall. They overlap on the drawing.

    There is one issue, a small piece of ground between garage wall and the fence which is very dark. I intend to place the garbage bins there, and they are off course ideal to use to climb up on the roof of the garage..
    will solve it by installing an o 5231R-Z turret under the eve so it look down at the choke point where someone could climb up,

    Also shown with 2 light yellow stripes is the Optex permiter sensor. Between that and the front of the garage will be a fence shown as thick purple line.


    Left side of the house.
    At this side of our house we have neighbors.

    [​IMG]

    The purple stripe next to the middle window is a gate.
    Behind the gate again a pole with the Optex AX-100 perimeter sensors (yellow stripes) \ going to back of the garden.

    Will install an 5231R-Z turret there So i will not need additional IR unit. (front of the house should be bright enough from the transmitters there so the camera only needs to lit up the first 5-7 meters or so.

    Also this is South/West position and a dome would age very fast down there I fear. (argument against all the dome cameras)

    Motion detection i will do also with an other Optex VXI-DAM (drawn in blue) and install it on the gate support pole looking forward. It is there 3.5 meters wide with a 1 meter gate most likely close to the house wall. So the other side support pole would be like a bit in the middle there, so perfect vision lookin forward.

    The left side shows the veranda, we will have 2 pairs of doors there, so I intend to have a 5231R-Z turret camera there.

    Would possibly need a decent sensor there also and not depend on something in the camera.
    But this does not need to be ip65 perhaps under there.


    Back side:

    [​IMG]
    The backside show on both sides the purple gates/fence
    .
    at the back door and under the veranda a 5231R-Z turret units Will be installed.

    This will be further updated, as i will need to make up my mind to solve visability for the back garden. 6 meter long fence with neighbor. 16.5 meter long fence at the back, and on the right side we have like 15 meter fence.

    So 2 ptz devices on the corner of the veranda and the garage would give full cover.
    This i can do:
    1) 2 time mini ptz and make sure i have all the garden lighted out with ir.
    2) 180'degree camera
    3) 2 large ptz units.

    The 3rd option can be nice if i would take a hni version, but these are €500 each.
    The non intelligent one has great image quality as seen on the threads on this forum.

    But the issue stays that to get identification i need to look at the correct position.
    So the ptz might start looking both at half the back fence (8 meter wide on 6 meter distance)
    Once a optix sensort alerts on either back, left or right side i could activate presets.
    So if left is triggered, i turn both ptz' to the left fence, both take a part of the 6 meter fence.
    If the right side is triggered, one ptz can do the back 6 meter. (As it cannot see more) and the other one turns to front house/gate and needs to look at 10 meter.

    I feel that auto tracking might come in as aperhaps nice help.

    So current idea is to pre-wire the positions, and save up for larger ptz cameras.





    As for the needed items for my intended setup i have selected:

    Perimiter sensors optex ax-100 plus. Optex Europe - Optex

    Sensor: optex VXI-DAM Optex Europe - Optex

    Power supply 4 channel 36 watt
    4CH 12V 3A 36W CCTV Power Supply Box / Switch Power Supply For CCTV Camera Security System-in CCTV Accessories from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    Power converters 2.1-5.5 mm female
    10pcs/lot 2.1 x 5.5mm DC Power Plug BNC Connector DC Female Adapter Surveillance Camera Power Supply For CCTV IP Camera-in CCTV Accessories from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-Z IPC-HDW5231R-Z | Dahua Technology
    Dahua SD22204T-GN SD22204T-GN | Dahua Technology
    Dahua SD49225T-HN SD49225T-HN
    Dahua NVR5416-4Ks2 NVR5416/5432/5464-4KS2 | Dahua Technology

    POE splitters yumik
    Security application non isolated DC12V/1.5 2A 15.4W POE Splitter poe injector-in CCTV Accessories from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    IR units scene electroncis S-SG6P-IR (90 and 30 degrees) Scene Electronics(HK)Co., Ltd - Products - S-SG6P-IR - Scene,Infrared illuminator,Infrared-ray night vision video camera,CCDLEDLamp board.Infrared Lamp board,High clear with lifrared ray an d night_sight came,Infrared Night Vision Assembly Cover,White light lamp

    POE injector 8 port
    8 Ports Passive Power over ethernet PoE injector Adapter with 48V65W Power supply for 8 IP Camera, VOIP phones, AP and more-in Switching Power Supply from Home Improvement on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group


    So the idea is to power the IR units to the passive POE injectors. They have a light sensor that works ok and need no other control. So this cheap 60 watt powered i jector will do. Have bought 2 to devide the load over 2 so it is not doing 100%.

    I bought the listed power supply box since i wanted a clean looking solution in the tech room where i intend to install it. No wish for multiple power bricks with extention cords etc.
    Will bring in conduit from the outside sensors to this room (ground floor), and than some conduit to the tech room where the nvr is at (2nd floor) so only the contact wires of the sensors go to the nvr.

    All camera and IR positions will have conduit going directly to the room on the 2nd floor.


    I ordered 2 more pfb203w brackets and a pfa151 from Andy


    Will update the post further..
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  2. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    After discussion in a thread I made detail pictures for the height of the cameras at the doors

    Front door:
    [​IMG]



    Back door:

    [​IMG]

    Veranda doors:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
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  3. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    And one new idea popped up after reading @nayr his ideas of installing a large ptz lower.

    I intended to install one larger PTZ higher up under the eve and 2 small mini ptz at lie 280 cm high to be able to record through whole the back garden.

    But.. what if I now just install 2 x a larger PTZ just at 280 cm high.


    I tried to make this into images, the red lines are for the high position ptz
    The green lines are from the lower position.
    Purple stripes are the Fences. The red lines indicated the lowest line of sight from the higher up position as the house parts block the view on large section of the back garden.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    With mini PTZ I would need to provide IR light in the back garden. That would mean conduit and IR transmitters. This adds cost next to the mini ptz so it comes closer to a larger PTZ. If I corner mount them, I will have vision on both sides up to the fence doors on both sides and the whole back garden.

    Only disadvantage I will have is no more vision on the flat roofs of the garage, carport and veranda.
    This seems a way intruders might try as we have few windows there.

    The only real way up there is via the right side of the house near the front of the garage where a fence/door is. There are garbage bins there reachable from the front of the house and this provides a step up to the roof of the garage.

    The solution might be to keep the higher position ptz also, and have that pointed at the spot one could climb the roof.

    But it seem a bit much to mount 3 times a ptz to my house on the back side..

    As a side note, i will still mount a turret near each door to have good indetification. This also covers basically both ptz units show in the picture, so one camera watches the other.

    As for detection there will still be the perimiter detection so these 2 ptz just will default to looking at half the back side. If a side fence detector triggers, both can turn to that side. The one nearest to cover it from the gate halfway the house to the edge of the house and the remote one the part of the back side of the house to the back fence.

    This shoudl give me enough coverage i think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
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  4. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    Brush up on the issues with dome cameras (ir reflection, fog, condensation, bugs, water spots, uv degradation of dome). The cam nayr refers to as a mini ptz most often isn't actually rated for outdoor use, but these domes are.

    I think you may be better off with fixed cameras in some of those locations.
     
  5. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    I changed my original idea of a SD22204T-GN mini ptz everywhere already to more turret units.

    But this SD22204T-GN has no internal ir, so a number of ir related issues it does not have. The aging of the dome material it does have. But the dome points down the way i intend to install it (under pfb202w) and it is the east/south corner of the house. So would have only a few left.
     
  6. nayr

    nayr IPCT Contributor

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    I did cave in and buy a dome PTZ w/out IR.. its a starlight 25x and it'll be here Monday probably.

    Going to replace my Mini-PTZ with it, after turning the IR off on my mini PTZ I was confident I had more than enough light for a Starlight w/no IR.. and I love me some external illuminators so I dont care and its never going to get any direct sunlight.. the reason I went with a dome was to keep things small next to the door, the big ones are simply too much.
     
  7. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    Size is also the issue i have with that latest idea i had. They will be mounted than at like 260 cm high, so out of reach of most people, and you will not bump your head.

    The fences are legally 200cm high maximal, so the ptz can peak just over it, but not look down in neighbor garden, which will save some discussions with them.

    Price is disadvantage, as the intelligent 25x HNI seems to be at > 500€/$ so for starters i will not install a large ptz under the eve. Will have a counduit installed there just in case.



    As for the roof access, i might solve this at the back via the heatpump outside unit with tshe turret installed at the back door.

    At the front right side where the fence and the garbage bins come i need to re-think what i do there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  8. macellie

    macellie n3wb

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    Nice setup!

    Just my 2cts: Why the Dahua NVR5416-4Ks2 NVR, with 2 MP camera's? With a NVR like that, I would go for (at least) 4MP camera's. Those camera's will be hanging there for a while, I suppose. In the meantime your tv, montor etc. will be replaced for ones with higher resolutions (up to 4K). I haven't calculated the exact price-difference, but I am sometimes surprised by the small differences, when I am browsing away..
     
  9. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    If you review the treads discussing the 2mp starlight cameras you will find that they are superior by a huge margin to the to the 4mp cameras in low light and at night (times likely that you need them)..they are in fact MORE expensive than the cheaper 4mp cameras...MP rating is not the end all and be all..there are many more variables that must be calculated...furthermore, note that 4mp will not yield double the pixel density as 2mp and if you get a 2mp varifocal, you can get similar pixel density to a 4mp camera because you can set it to cover the exact are needed which will likely not be 4mm/6mm etc..
     
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  10. macellie

    macellie n3wb

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    O.. and why not the NVR5416/5432/5464-16P-4KS2? It has PoE..
     
  11. tangent

    tangent IPCT Contributor

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    More pixels without more photons hitting the sensor just results in more noise.
     
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  12. nayr

    nayr IPCT Contributor

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    Internal PoE generally sucks, the cameras have many more configuration options than the NVR will expose.. and getting to those settings when they are on a isolated network operated by the NVR is a pain in the ass.

    PoE is a great thing to have available to your entire network, not just your video cameras.. Ive got PoE powered Wireless Access Points, IR Illuminators, VoIP Phones and Home Automation Appliances.
     
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  13. macellie

    macellie n3wb

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    Thanks Fenderman. I have a lot to learn...
     
  14. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    Already answered for the 2MP choice by others. I now have 2, 3 and 4 MP camera's and the 2 MP Image quality is by far the best (also the most expensive being a ptz)

    The choice for this nvr is simple, want the number of inputs for sensors (16) and high bandwidth support (320 mbps)
    Perhaps there will only be 11 cameras and 6 sensors and i never need it all this modell supports, better save than sorry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  15. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    No such thing.
     
  16. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    Size does matter for me.

    I can mount up to 280cm high. So the SD59225U-HNI is 309 mm heigh, the top is with the included mount about at the bottum of a PFA-151 which is 170 mm high.
    So that is 2800-170-309 = 2321 mm.
    This will be heigh enough not to bump you head against it (not many people that long) but will bring it into reach of hands of averge sized people.

    The PFB303W is perhaps and option to save 30-40 mm height. But that is again 30€ and it does not solve the reachability rally. These things are huge and you need to accept it.
     
  17. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    You're the godamn ptz master man, I got catching up to do.
    Huge, and awesome
     
  18. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    We signed with the builder and now are awaiting building permits.
    Will update the drawings in opening post as some details are changed.

    I ordered from @EMPIRETECANDY the rest of the mounts so the contractor that does the installations can mount them on the wall on the pipe exit.
     
  19. j4co

    j4co Pulling my weight

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    Today ordered the nvr 5416 at Andy and 2 more starlight bullits.
    That should make the system operational when the installer pulls the cables.
     
  20. pal251

    pal251 Pulling my weight

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    @nayr did you ever get that 25x starlight