New from Pennsylvania - setup questions

M

mdm

n3wb
Sep 24, 2017
22
5
Hi from Pennsylvania - I am totally new but have lurked for a while and I am ready to jump in, but I have some questions (at bottom) about basic setup and equipment -- A basic schematic is attached.

This is what I am thinking about:
  • Questions
    • Overall, any problems with the proposed layout and mix of equipment? Am I missing anything?
    • This is the switch I am thinking about (DH-PFS3110-8P-96 -- Aliexpress.com : Buy DAHUA 8Port PoE Switch Unmanaged Two layer industrial PoE switch Support IEEE802.3af, IEEE802.3at standard PFS3110 8P 96 from Reliable ieee802.3af poe switch suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd) - it has the ports listed below -- Which port should connect to the router and which one to PC?
      • 1*1000 Base-X -
        1*10/100/1000 Base-T
        8*10/100 Base-T (PoE power supply)
    • Can I really run 8 cams to this switch.
    • Do I need i7 on the PC for BI with this many cams?
    • Graphics cards ok?
    • I have verizon FIOS with the stock FIOS router (something like this -- actiontec) -- any issues to consider?
    • What kind of cable (Cat5, 5e, or 6)? What is the benefit of one over the other?
    • For my cable runs I can put the switch at a number of places between cams and PC/router -- is it better to have longer run from cams to switch and short run from switch to PC/router, or shorter runs from cam to switch and longer from switch to PC? The longest would be 100meters.
    • If I order from @EMPIRETECANDY
      • In the US, does it matter that cameras are PAL?
      • Will everything be Chinese or can I get english language?
Thanks everyone for your expertise!
 

Attachments

  • ipcam.jpg
    ipcam.jpg
    66.7 KB · Views: 23
mdm said:
Hi from Pennsylvania - I am totally new but have lurked for a while and I am ready to jump in, but I have some questions (at bottom) about basic setup and equipment -- A basic schematic is attached.

This is what I am thinking about:
  • Questions
    • Overall, any problems with the proposed layout and mix of equipment? Am I missing anything?
    • This is the switch I am thinking about (DH-PFS3110-8P-96 -- Aliexpress.com : Buy DAHUA 8Port PoE Switch Unmanaged Two layer industrial PoE switch Support IEEE802.3af, IEEE802.3at standard PFS3110 8P 96 from Reliable ieee802.3af poe switch suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd) - it has the ports listed below -- Which port should connect to the router and which one to PC?
      • 1*1000 Base-X -
        1*10/100/1000 Base-T
        8*10/100 Base-T (PoE power supply)
    • Can I really run 8 cams to this switch.
    • Do I need i7 on the PC for BI with this many cams?
    • Graphics cards ok?
    • I have verizon FIOS with the stock FIOS router (something like this -- actiontec) -- any issues to consider?
    • What kind of cable (Cat5, 5e, or 6)? What is the benefit of one over the other?
    • For my cable runs I can put the switch at a number of places between cams and PC/router -- is it better to have longer run from cams to switch and short run from switch to PC/router, or shorter runs from cam to switch and longer from switch to PC? The longest would be 100meters.
    • If I order from @EMPIRETECANDY
      • In the US, does it matter that cameras are PAL?
      • Will everything be Chinese or can I get english language?
Thanks everyone for your expertise!
Click to expand...

Welcome mdm,

Congratulations you've done a great job - everything off hand looks fairly good.

PAL will be fine. Doesn't really seem to matter much with IP cameras.

I have read here that BI does not take advantage of additional graphics cards - just the chip instruction set in i5/i7 - thus why the CPU is so important. Thus you can save some money by not getting the graphics card.

NO Cat5. Cat5e OK. Cat6 better. Recommend Cat6 in general as the price different is not so much compared to cat5e - and if you are only buying 1 box you may want to use it else where.

Clip of my notes from SD wiki:
Lorex / Dahua OEM 6x 4K / 8MP security camera system w/ 8 port POE IP NVR 2TB HDD kit at Costco B&M YMMV for $799.99

Cat 5e / Cat 6 ethernet cable:
DO NOT buy CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) wire - it is a fire hazard
  • Recommended that you buy buik cat5e/cat6 cable and not use the cable which comes in the kit, as if you need to return it you will have to also return the cables.
  • Recommended vendor for bulk Cat 5e / Cat 6 cable is monoprice, they often have sales during the weekend.
  • Either Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable will work with these cameras. Normally Cat6 cable is a bit thicker due to the plastic separator in the cable. Also Cat 6 cable often has wires slightly thicker than what you see in Cat 5e cables. While a thicker copper wire means less voltage loss over the run, it may not be significant for most of us. Note the spec for ethernet and PoE is 100M / 328 feet.
  • If you are pulling multiple wires through 1/2" EMT pipes or other tight spots it maybe better to use cat 5e.
  • If you are only buying one bulk box of cable you may want to get cat6 in case you would like to wire up other locations.
  • There are numerous types of Cat 5e / Cat 6 cable, you want to get Solid unshielded cable, either for in-wall installation or plenum rated cable ( better for multistory buildings and business type buildings ).
  • If you plan to have the cables exposed to direct UV get a UV rated cable, or place the cable in conduit. Otherwise the cable will degrade over time.
  • Also get RJ45 ends which are rated for solid wires, as well as a crimping tool.
  • Remember to cut the cable longer than you think you will need, and leave some extra length in case you need to adjust the location a bit.
  • Recommend pulling N+1 or more cables to each location, where N = number of cameras you plan to have. This way if you decide to add an additional PoE or ethernet device nearby you can in the future.
  • If your attic is too short to easily work in recommending using Grey PVC pipe 3/4"+ and pushing the sections to the locations you want to run the cat5e/cat6 cabling to.
  • Have a friend help you pull the cabling so you can reduce snags and knots which may cause breakages. Also remember not to pull the cable with too much force as it is more delicate than electrical cables that you may be used to pulling.
  • You can use the pull tools which electricians use to help with the wiring pulls.
  • Unshielded vs shielded cable - typically you can avoid using shielded cable, just try to keep the cable 1 foot or more from electrical lines, florescent lights, and electrical motors. If you must pass by something which produces EMF / electrical interference you can use a section of EMT pipe in that location to pass the cat5e/cat6 cable through.
  • Thieves have been known to cut telcom cables to houses as well as cat5e/cat6 to cameras - if you feel the need to protect your cables do consider putting them in conduit or run the lines inside the wall. ( Metal EMT works well in most cases, in humid environments you may want to consider less strong non-metal conduit. )

Ref:
Fancy tools for wiring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cNC4AN_us4
Drywall holes fixing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXhDlDBzXjY
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdm
Also w/regards to the location for your switch.

Recommend picking a good location for a small "data center" - plan to have enough room to add a NAS, another switch, your router, maybe your BI pc, and other networking gear you may want. Pick a location which will be dry and can be kept cool - you want to keep the temp < 80 degrees F. I used a closet and added a vent hole to the hallway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdm
Welcome mdm

mdm I’m as new to this as you but have learned a bit about switches, with the help of learned members. The switch you are looking at should do fine for the cameras you have chosen but it has a maximum capacity of 96 watts. It may well supply 30 watts to a port, but up to 3 ports only. Check into that if you plan on higher wattage cameras now or in the future. Sofar the only switch I’ve found that supplies the full rating per port is from Nelly’s Security.

Bullet cameras?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdm
mat200 said:
Welcome mdm,

Congratulations you've done a great job - everything off hand looks fairly good.

PAL will be fine. Doesn't really seem to matter much with IP cameras.

I have read here that BI does not take advantage of additional graphics cards - just the chip instruction set in i5/i7 - thus why the CPU is so important. Thus you can save some money by not getting the graphics card.

NO Cat5. Cat5e OK. Cat6 better. Recommend Cat6 in general as the price different is not so much compared to cat5e - and if you are only buying 1 box you may want to use it else where.

Clip of my notes from SD wiki:
Lorex / Dahua OEM 6x 4K / 8MP security camera system w/ 8 port POE IP NVR 2TB HDD kit at Costco B&M YMMV for $799.99

Cat 5e / Cat 6 ethernet cable:
DO NOT buy CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum) wire - it is a fire hazard
  • Recommended that you buy buik cat5e/cat6 cable and not use the cable which comes in the kit, as if you need to return it you will have to also return the cables.
  • Recommended vendor for bulk Cat 5e / Cat 6 cable is monoprice, they often have sales during the weekend.
  • Either Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable will work with these cameras. Normally Cat6 cable is a bit thicker due to the plastic separator in the cable. Also Cat 6 cable often has wires slightly thicker than what you see in Cat 5e cables. While a thicker copper wire means less voltage loss over the run, it may not be significant for most of us. Note the spec for ethernet and PoE is 100M / 328 feet.
  • If you are pulling multiple wires through 1/2" EMT pipes or other tight spots it maybe better to use cat 5e.
  • If you are only buying one bulk box of cable you may want to get cat6 in case you would like to wire up other locations.
  • There are numerous types of Cat 5e / Cat 6 cable, you want to get Solid unshielded cable, either for in-wall installation or plenum rated cable ( better for multistory buildings and business type buildings ).
  • If you plan to have the cables exposed to direct UV get a UV rated cable, or place the cable in conduit. Otherwise the cable will degrade over time.
  • Also get RJ45 ends which are rated for solid wires, as well as a crimping tool.
  • Remember to cut the cable longer than you think you will need, and leave some extra length in case you need to adjust the location a bit.
  • Recommend pulling N+1 or more cables to each location, where N = number of cameras you plan to have. This way if you decide to add an additional PoE or ethernet device nearby you can in the future.
  • If your attic is too short to easily work in recommending using Grey PVC pipe 3/4"+ and pushing the sections to the locations you want to run the cat5e/cat6 cabling to.
  • Have a friend help you pull the cabling so you can reduce snags and knots which may cause breakages. Also remember not to pull the cable with too much force as it is more delicate than electrical cables that you may be used to pulling.
  • You can use the pull tools which electricians use to help with the wiring pulls.
  • Unshielded vs shielded cable - typically you can avoid using shielded cable, just try to keep the cable 1 foot or more from electrical lines, florescent lights, and electrical motors. If you must pass by something which produces EMF / electrical interference you can use a section of EMT pipe in that location to pass the cat5e/cat6 cable through.
  • Thieves have been known to cut telcom cables to houses as well as cat5e/cat6 to cameras - if you feel the need to protect your cables do consider putting them in conduit or run the lines inside the wall. ( Metal EMT works well in most cases, in humid environments you may want to consider less strong non-metal conduit. )

Ref:
Fancy tools for wiring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cNC4AN_us4
Drywall holes fixing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXhDlDBzXjY
Click to expand...
This is unbelievably helpful. Thank you. I am going to do a little more scoping out on my cable runs given this info. Hopefully be able to post some pics after install!
 
  • Like
Reactions: mat200
Stanley71 said:
Welcome mdm

mdm I’m as new to this as you but have learned a bit about switches, with the help of learned members. The switch you are looking at should do fine for the cameras you have chosen but it has a maximum capacity of 96 watts. It may well supply 30 watts to a port, but up to 3 ports only. Check into that if you plan on higher wattage cameras now or in the future. Sofar the only switch I’ve found that supplies the full rating per port is from Nelly’s Security.

Bullet cameras?
Click to expand...
Geez I hadnt even thought about the wattage. Thank you for pointing that out. Any chance you could post a link to that switch you reference on Nelly's?
Thanks again. Looking forward to getting things up and running.
 
mdm said:
Hi from Pennsylvania - I am totally new but have lurked for a while and I am ready to jump in, but I have some questions (at bottom) about basic setup and equipment -- A basic schematic is attached.

This is what I am thinking about:
  • Questions
    • Overall, any problems with the proposed layout and mix of equipment? Am I missing anything?
    • This is the switch I am thinking about (DH-PFS3110-8P-96 -- Aliexpress.com : Buy DAHUA 8Port PoE Switch Unmanaged Two layer industrial PoE switch Support IEEE802.3af, IEEE802.3at standard PFS3110 8P 96 from Reliable ieee802.3af poe switch suppliers on Empire Technology Co., Ltd) - it has the ports listed below -- Which port should connect to the router and which one to PC?
      • 1*1000 Base-X -
        1*10/100/1000 Base-T
        8*10/100 Base-T (PoE power supply)
    • Can I really run 8 cams to this switch.
    • Do I need i7 on the PC for BI with this many cams?
    • Graphics cards ok?
    • I have verizon FIOS with the stock FIOS router (something like this -- actiontec) -- any issues to consider?
    • What kind of cable (Cat5, 5e, or 6)? What is the benefit of one over the other?
    • For my cable runs I can put the switch at a number of places between cams and PC/router -- is it better to have longer run from cams to switch and short run from switch to PC/router, or shorter runs from cam to switch and longer from switch to PC? The longest would be 100meters.
    • If I order from @EMPIRETECANDY
      • In the US, does it matter that cameras are PAL?
      • Will everything be Chinese or can I get english language?
Thanks everyone for your expertise!
Click to expand...
license reader -Dahua 2MP WDR IR Bullet starlight IPC-HFW5231E-Z this one better use IPC-HFW5231E-Z12, every guy here use this one. If you have good light in the night, can use IPC-HFW5431E-Z5, 4MP also working good for the license plate reading. PAL or NTSC no big problem, can send you NTSC firmware for flashing, sometimes little busy, so no time to flash, normally we flash analog or CVI cams into NTSC, IP Ones seldom do it. Or else too heavy work for us, lol.
 
Don’t know how to copy a link but the website is nellyssecurity.com

IPCamPower IPCP-8P2G-AT 8 Port POE Plus Switch W/ 2 Gigabit Uplinks Designed for High Wattage IP Security Cameras. They only sell three models so not hard to find on site.

Depending on the location of your cameras you may be interested in looking at POE injectors as an alternative or combination of both.
 
Mdm

Before purchasing cameras, especially overseas, check out the forum for problems, advice, etc. on the models you chose. Nothing better than local support when needed. Personally I didn’t think this project would be as time consuming as it turned out to be. I’ve learned much more than I ever wanted to know about setting up a system. Keep in mind that I knew nothing about the inner workings of computers, software, switches or cameras. Just go slow and read only about the subject your working on. Then if you have time read everything. There is so much information here it can be quite confusing.

Even if you don’t buy from Nelly’s give them a call and ask for some advice. They have the best customer service
of anyone I’ve ever dealt with. There prices are higher than overseas equipment but what price can you put on great customer service? Pay a little extra for service and save time asking about problems your going to have on the forum.

I must say so far its been fun learning something new and the forum members have been so helpful. My project continues. Best of luck with yours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMPIRETECANDY
Stanley71 said:
Mdm

Before purchasing cameras, especially overseas, check out the forum for problems, advice, etc. on the models you chose. Nothing better than local support when needed. Personally I didn’t think this project would be as time consuming as it turned out to be. I’ve learned much more than I ever wanted to know about setting up a system. Keep in mind that I knew nothing about the inner workings of computers, software, switches or cameras. Just go slow and read only about the subject your working on. Then if you have time read everything. There is so much information here it can be quite confusing.

Even if you don’t buy from Nelly’s give them a call and ask for some advice. They have the best customer service
of anyone I’ve ever dealt with. There prices are higher than overseas equipment but what price can you put on great customer service? Pay a little extra for service and save time asking about problems your going to have on the forum.

I must say so far its been fun learning something new and the forum members have been so helpful. My project continues. Best of luck with yours.
Click to expand...
Yes, i agree Stanley's opinion, the cameras buying customer service is very important, and real warranty, some guys said 1 year warranty, but when transaction protection ends, they will not come to you anymore, i met some guys even can't get new firmware from their sellers. So that is why we do a little price higher than others, also do real warranty, no matter the software or hardware failed, we can follow up for it. And we have special fixing up team, can fix up all dahua device no matter how long you bought. If can find the parts, then no problem. lol~
 
  • Like
Reactions: marku2, mdm, mat200 and 1 other person
suddenstop said:
Why not a dahua NVR?
Click to expand...
Good question. I have been agonizing over the decision to do Dahua NVR vs. BI. It seems like there is quite a split in opinion but whenever I settle on one I read something else that pushes me the other way.

Here is my summary of what I have read but I would love any feedback on whether I am on track or not:

Cost: Winner - NVR. Seems like dedicating a PC plus a switch is way more expensive. However if I need a separate switch on top of the NVR, probably close to equal.
Flexibility: Winner - BI -- Seems like BI can play with any camera so is a bit more future proof. Plus having a good switch may be useful for other tech
Features: Winner - BI. -- Seems like everything I could do with NVR, I could do with BI and more.
Remote access: Winner -- undecided --- seems like BI is more complicated to set up remote access but there is a pretty good app. NVR remote access seems to also have good reviews.
Ease of setup: Winner - NVR - Seems like nvr is more plug and play. I like a good tech challenge but dont want to spend unlimited hours being frustrated>

Anything off in my assessment or any suggestions regarding other considerations I havent thought of?

Thanks
 
mdm said:
Good question. I have been agonizing over the decision to do Dahua NVR vs. BI. It seems like there is quite a split in opinion but whenever I settle on one I read something else that pushes me the other way.

Here is my summary of what I have read but I would love any feedback on whether I am on track or not:

Cost: Winner - NVR. Seems like dedicating a PC plus a switch is way more expensive. However if I need a separate switch on top of the NVR, probably close to equal.
Flexibility: Winner - BI -- Seems like BI can play with any camera so is a bit more future proof. Plus having a good switch may be useful for other tech
Features: Winner - BI. -- Seems like everything I could do with NVR, I could do with BI and more.
Remote access: Winner -- undecided --- seems like BI is more complicated to set up remote access but there is a pretty good app. NVR remote access seems to also have good reviews.
Ease of setup: Winner - NVR - Seems like nvr is more plug and play. I like a good tech challenge but dont want to spend unlimited hours being frustrated>

Anything off in my assessment or any suggestions regarding other considerations I havent thought of?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi mdm,

Time to get all the parts together, for me it was quicker to not have to keep looking on ebay for switch and PC deals and just order a NVR w/PoE ports, a HDD, and cameras.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdm
Mdm

Somewhere amongst all this information I read it is best to use a seperate switch for an NVR? I really don’t think an NVR is going to be simpler. I have no experience with either only from what I read. Mr. Fenderman convinced me to go the BI route.
 
I like separate switches from the nvr as well. Gives more setup flexibility, and some nvr with poe run a little louder due to fan. IP cams do not draw that much wattage, 96 watts seems like plenty to power 8 cams.

I am a fan of appliances that simply work, and do what's needed. I'm not sure how well the BI interface is with motion areas etc - but with the Dahua nvr, the features will work with the cameras you have. Again, not sure about BI, and it's simply a choice with no right or wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mdm
Stanley71 said:
Mdm

Before purchasing cameras, especially overseas, check out the forum for problems, advice, etc. on the models you chose. Nothing better than local support when needed. Personally I didn’t think this project would be as time consuming as it turned out to be. I’ve learned much more than I ever wanted to know about setting up a system. Keep in mind that I knew nothing about the inner workings of computers, software, switches or cameras. Just go slow and read only about the subject your working on. Then if you have time read everything. There is so much information here it can be quite confusing.

Even if you don’t buy from Nelly’s give them a call and ask for some advice. They have the best customer service
of anyone I’ve ever dealt with. There prices are higher than overseas equipment but what price can you put on great customer service? Pay a little extra for service and save time asking about problems your going to have on the forum.

I must say so far its been fun learning something new and the forum members have been so helpful. My project continues. Best of luck with yours.
Click to expand...
Good advice. Thank you. I am trying to figure out if it matters whether the switch is managed or unmanaged. I don't want to do much "managing" but does it really matter?
 
Mdm

From my very limited experience go for the unmanaged. I purchased a managed switch and what a nightmare trying to setup. Lots of people here tried to help me and I didn’t give up on it for quite some time. It finally beat me and I purchased an unmanaged switch. If you have any experience with computers and software you might do fine. The unmanaged, most, are plug and play. Managed, for me, plug and throwaway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yandawg
Stanley71 said:
Mdm

From my very limited experience go for the unmanaged. I purchased a managed switch and what a nightmare trying to setup. Lots of people here tried to help me and I didn’t give up on it for quite some time. It finally beat me and I purchased an unmanaged switch. If you have any experience with computers and software you might do fine. The unmanaged, most, are plug and play. Managed, for me, plug and throwaway.
Click to expand...
there are significant benefits to managed switches...they are relatively easy to set up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMPIRETECANDY
Mr F. I would agree with you that there are many benefits to a managed switch but only if you use them. As far as relatively easy to setup, that would be a matter of prospective. You, amoung others, are experts with these systems and sometimes forget that when trying to explain to inexperienced people. Take someone like me who knows nothing about computers and software except from what he reads and reading is no subistitute for hands on experience, let alone comprehending what he reads. Plug, play and forget. I had two managed switches, gave one away, that even with your help I couldn’t get working, almost though. So now unmanaged switch arriving tomorrow. I still kept one managed switch and as I said before I’ll get it working if it kills me in the process.
 
Stanley71 said:
Mr F. I would agree with you that there are many benefits to a managed switch but only if you use them. As far as relatively easy to setup, that would be a matter of prospective. You, amoung others, are experts with these systems and sometimes forget that when trying to explain to inexperienced people. Take someone like me who knows nothing about computers and software except from what he reads and reading is no subistitute for hands on experience, let alone comprehending what he reads. Plug, play and forget. I had two managed switches, gave one away, that even with your help I couldn’t get working, almost though. So now unmanaged switch arriving tomorrow. I still kept one managed switch and as I said before I’ll get it working if it kills me in the process.
Click to expand...
lots of non experts have setup managed switches...most folks can follow direction and use google to figure things out...
 
  • Like
Reactions: marku2
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom