new installation - how to place cameras?

[Schuft]

Hey Guys,

after reading for 6 months in this forum I want to install cameras too.

I have a free-standing house and found 3 possibilities to install the cameras. What do you think about them - which one makes most sense?
The cameras will be installed in about 2,7m high under the overlap of the roof.






Don't be rude - its my first post

 

[Sybertiger]

2.7 meters is close to 9 feet from ground level. Some people in here will suggest 7 to 8 feet maximum is better so that you get better facial shots of people instead of the tops of their heads. I think 9 feet is fine if that is what your are given to work with. I have some cams that are probably 9 feet off the ground and I'm 99% satisfied with that. Regarding location...that will depend upon what you are trying to achieve. Overall view of what's going on versus ID capture of individuals. From the number of cams you proposed I assume it's the former.

 

[Schuft]

Hey @Sybertiger, thanks for the reply.
I want to achieve an overview "is someone around the house" - so the height should not be an issue.

Additional question: The light under the roof is motion activated. Will it make issues during the night with those cameras?

 

[Ri22o]

Those cameras do not use IR and require light to see anything and be usable. Even with your soffit lights, you likely will not have enough light at distance to see anything beyond a few meters.

Option A is many times better than Option B. I wouldn't even consider Option B.
Option C is a good start, but the focal length of that camera will not be good at distance.

I recommend Option D, a modification of Option C where you have 2 cameras at each corner with crossed views along the sides of the house.

 

[wittaj]

Those cameras will not reliably provide IDENTIFY beyond 15ish feet. Do you not care about further out?

I agree that this is not enough visible light away from the house to take advantage of the full color cameras that do not see infrared. Even with the snow on the ground, based on the picture it is pretty dark once you get away from the straight down accent lighting.

 

[Ri22o]

Those cameras will not reliably provide IDENTIFY beyond 15ish feet. Do you not care about further out?

I agree that this is not enough visible light away from the house to take advantage of the full color cameras that do not see infrared. Even with the snow on the ground, based on the picture it is pretty dark once you get away from the straight down accent lighting.

And I am sure the picture makes the scene appear to have more light than it actually does.

 

[Sybertiger]

My guess is that if you want color 24/7 then your flood lights are going to have to be on all night given if it's a poorly lit area.

As mentioned above, cams on the corners criss crossed is better. Not sure how big your house or lot is but my guess is that you might end up with 10 to 12 cams in the end. Doesn't mean you need to do that many to start with. Maybe start off with the four and see what you think. A mix of different cams probably works best.

 

[Schuft]

Also thought about @Ri22o proposed option D - from the "I see all from best angle" it might be the best - but it has some downsides:
It nearly doubles costs (8vs4 cams, more PoE Ports), double the cams to manage - so I rejected this option (for now).

The thing with the light is a crucial point. Would replacing the IPC-Color4K-T180 4K with IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV work? I don't want to have floodlight all night on + I don't think I need color view 24/7.
Even if it has the smaller sensor it has IR-light. As far as I read it the IPC-PDW3849-A180-AS-PV switches on white light once IR identifies movement.

 

[Ri22o]

Color4K-T180 is $238 USD
Color4K-T is $210 USD
T54IR-ZE is $185 USD
T54IR-AS is $152 USD

The recommended camera would be either of the T54IR options. the ZE is varifocal, but the AS can be had in a 6mm version which might be sufficient.

Given the cost difference, you could deploy more cameras for an Option D with not much additional cost.

 

[Sybertiger]

Regarding cam count and cost, it depends upon your goal for the system. Seems like 4 cams is a "better than nothing" approach. True to start with, but your hunger for something better will always be there. Start with four, plan for expansion.

Personally, I like the Blue Iris approach as it works perfectly with expansion and versatility in mind. From my signature you can see I have a blend of cams. They all have their pros and cons. The system grew as needed. Maybe option C to begin with which allows you to go to option D easily as you expand.

 

[Ri22o]

Regarding cam count and cost, it depends upon your goal for the system. Seems like 4 cams is a "better than nothing" approach. True to start with, but your hunger for something better will always be there. Start with four, plan for expansion.

Personally, I like the Blue Iris approach as it works perfectly with expansion and versatility in mind. From my signature you can see I have a blend of cams. They all have their pros and cons. The system grew as needed. Maybe option C to begin with which allows you to go to option D easily as you expand.

I agree. Of the proposed options, Option C is the best and will allow getting the feet wet before ultimately moving to Option D+.

For Option C, I would use the T54IR-ZE. This would allow an adjustable focal length, and being crossed down the length of the building, the attack angle will lower the "height" of the camera and 2.7m will be in the more usable range.

 

[wittaj]

No the 3849 should be avoided at all costs.

This would be the much better camera that is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio:

EmpireTech IPC-Color4M-T 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP Smart Dual Light Active Deter

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS | Built-in multi-core light | Max. IR distance is 30 m | Max. warm light distance is 30 m | Intelligent monitoring: Intrusion, tripwire | Supports max. 512 G Micro SD card | Built-in dual Mic | Support two-way talk | IP67 protection | Sound and light alarm (red and blue lights)...

empiretech01.com

Plenty of threads here demonstrating how difficult the 3849 camera is. Here is a thread of a person just a few months ago on the 3849 being burned on them.

The biggest problem with the 3849 camera is it was put on sensor designed for 2MP, so it will need 4 times as much light as the 2MP to produce the same brightness. And because they shoved 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP, the sensor/cpu is undersized for 8MP.

Even with infrared, you still want cameras on the ideal MP/sensor ratio in green:



And then these are a few of the threads made be people coming here because the 3849 camera was underwhelming.

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV issues

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV loses connection/reboots during the day

Replaced HDW5442TMP-ASE by HFW3849T1P

Dahua 8mp (TIOC): Full Colour, Active Deterrence & AI

IPC-HDW3849H-AS-PV Video Quality




Most here find that cameras and motion activated floodlights ends up causing problems with image exposure and are bad for surveillance cameras.. What happens is then the camera is momentarily blinded and you lose the ideal capture when the lights kick on and the camera adjusts from basically no light to a lot of light. Cameras a getting better with it, but it can still be problematic in some situations.

Motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

Or this example that completely missed the perp.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Think about two cameras under the carport pointing out right and left side. No higher than 8 ft, need to check for door checkers.
At least one camera at the front door point down to the package drop area.

I have cameras inside pointing to each outside door. Cameras out side pointing at the doors.

 

[dudemaar]

Did a quick layout combining some good ideas mentioned in this post.

 

[Schuft]

Hey Guys,
thank you so much for your valuable feedback and hints involved! Its more anybody can ask for!
Thank you alsofor pointing out also the pitfalls with motion activated light, instable 3849, etc!

I will order one T54IR-ZE and test with it - try to find best spot(s), angle and focal length. I think the 6-Cam variant of @dudemaar will be the solution in the end.
Also thought about installing some speakers to freak the shit out of intruders (since the T54IR-ZE has none)

Thank you again. I'll keep you posted how the project is going on.