New member introduction and request for advice regarding zoom, ptz and LPR

[Gustav123]

Hi! Apologies in advance for the long thread.

I’m Gus, living with my family in southern Sweden in a two-story house.
I’m using UniFi for networking (router, Poe switches, APs) and has therefore been using their Protect suite with G3 and G4 cameras for the last years.

However, having digested a lot of information regarding the capacity of cameras and their sensors (especially in this forum - I’ve been lurking quite a while) I decided to sell of all my UniFi protect gear and instead go for mainly OEM Dahuas and similar. Mainly because of the higher performance I’d get for the same price, but also to be able to make use of ONVIF cameras (which UniFi isn’t) in my new nvr/vms setup, which is currently based on Blue Iris with AI.
I’m also quite deep into home automation and look forward to integrating Blue Iris and/or ONVIF triggers with my Home Assistant setup.
So far, I’ve bought:

• IPC-Color4K-T 1/1.2" 2.8mm (blue arrow in overview pic)
• IPC-T5442TM-AS 4MP 3.6mm (red arrow in overview pic)
• IPC-T5442T-ZE 4MP (still in delivery)

My main concern is sorting out the surveillance of my front yard. The street outside my yard is a dead end with little traffic. Beyond the street is a lake where we’ve got a bridge/small pier.
The driveway from the street is shared with my neighbor, and as seen in the overview pic, the distance from my house to the street is about 20m/60ft.
At the start of the driveway there’s a street light that illuminates the area rather well.
What I want to achieve is:

- Being able to identify faces of persons loitering around the area beneath the street light / start of driveway. I’m currently on vacation abroad and just found out that some moron stole our boat that was moored at the bridge in vicinity of the street light. I’m considering mounting the T5442T-ZE as shown on overview pic, focusing it on the area around the street light. However, It would also be nice to get an overview of the whole front yard area, whereas I’m thinking a high zoom PTZ cam with tracking might be a solution? Could it give me ID photos at 20m distance as well as monitoring / tracking movement throughout the front yard or should I go for two cameras instead?

- Being able to log VRNs of vehicles entering the drive way. These vehicles would be at a maximum distance of 20 meters with their fronts directly facing the camera mounted at approx 2.5 meters height. Would I still need a dedicated LPR camera (such as the IPC-HFW2831T-ZS S2) or could something like a T5442T-ZE with the right settings do the trick with mentioned conditions?
In addition to the overview pic, I’ve attached two pics showing the driveway from a house and an entry point of view.

I’d be very grateful for your feedback!

Regards,
Gustav

 

[Gustav123]

Answering myself in lack of replies
Saw another new member post with similar questions like mine. The combination of a spotter cam triggering a ptz seems interesting in my case aswell.
Comparing SD49425XB-HNR and SD4A425DB-HNY, does the mini ptz have any advantages other than the smaller size and a somewhat lower price?

As shown above, I’m considering a LPR cam that would be focused on the trigger area for the ptz. I’m thinking maybe the LPR cam could double as a spotter for the ptz here?

 

[Ri22o]

Answering myself in lack of replies
Saw another new member post with similar questions like mine. The combination of a spotter cam triggering a ptz seems interesting in my case aswell.
Comparing SD49425XB-HNR and SD4A425DB-HNY, does the mini ptz have any advantages other than the smaller size and a somewhat lower price?

As shown above, I’m considering a LPR cam that would be focused on the trigger area for the ptz. I’m thinking maybe the LPR cam could double as a spotter for the ptz here?

I have a SD4A425DB-HNY and like it, but it's a complement to my system. It is nice that it can follow or zoom in on someone, but I can't rely that it will be looking at the correct location when needed (happens all of the time). Get a good structure of fixed cams and then look into adding a PTZ. Keep in mind a PTZ can only auto-track what it can see. If you don't have a spotter to call it to a preset then it's not going to know something is there, this is why it is a complement and a good structured system is a must.

The -HNY has a very good form factor, but is on the wrong sensor, unfortunately. I am still trying to get good night captures with it. I have no experience with the -HNR.

An LPR should be an LPR and nothing else. At night it will be adjusted to a point where the FOV is completely black and will be useless as a spotter. It will also be zoomed in to a specific area, maybe tighter than you would want a spotter, so use a dedicated spotter and LPR.

Personally, I would use HFW5241E-Z12E for the LPR and a separate HFW5241E-Z12E or B5442E-Z4E for monitoring the area. For the other two cams, not knowing distances to objects or mounting heights, it is hard to say which focal length to go with.


Below are some of my threads, if you want to take a look through them. They may help you determine which focal lengths and cameras would work better for your scenes. You can see the differences between 2.8mm, 3.6mm, and some of the varifocals at full zoom.

My ongoing "build" thread.
What I have learned and why you need specific FOVs and purposeful focus lengths.
The importance of having the right focal length and specific purpose for a camera.
Captures from my PTZ.
(Real time) PTZ called to preset with spotter cam.

 

[wittaj]

If size isn't an issue, go with the 49425 instead of the miniPTZ - while they are both 4MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor, the 49425 has better infrared. I have both and the 49425 can outperform at night due to this. But the mini-PTZ still has its place and value.

As mentioned above, PTZs are a good compliment to fixed camera system. PTZs always have the ability to be looking left when the perp is coming from the right. While spotter cams helps mitigate that, it will fail if more than one perp, so you need the fixed lens at pinch points.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

See the LPR subforum.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Also see this thread on the most commonly recommended cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY. These represent the best overall value in terms of cost and performance day and night.

 

[Gustav123]

Thanks for the very thorough replies, Ri22o and wittaj! This forum is awesome. I’m hopefully gonna get some time in the yard this weekend, will do some measuring and might return with some follow up questions. Until then I’ll keep digesting the suggested threads and the cliff notes.

 

[kenzi]

I just want to add that I also have SD4A425DB-HNY and have had SD49425XB-HNR and they are not particularly strong at night since they require a lot of light, so if I have to give some advice along the way, I would probably look for this model ( EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR Network PTZ )

 

[Gustav123]

I just want to add that I also have SD4A425DB-HNY and have had SD49425XB-HNR and they are not particularly strong at night since they require a lot of light, so if I have to give some advice along the way, I would probably look for this model ( EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR Network PTZ )

Thanks for your input. That one is a bit pricier than the other two. But as the saying goes…”pay a lot, cry once. Pay little, cry many times”

 

[kenzi]

As @Ri22o says, the SD4A425DB-HNY is a great day cam but we are some there are still not able to get a god night picture, but look a this Do I need a IR Illuminator? it can be done