New RCA HSDB2A 3MP Doorbell IP Camera

[pete_c]

Just checked here changing a dedicated SSID to using only 5Ghz radio on my Ruckus WAP.

The WAP is located in the middle of the first floor in a coat closet.

 

[rafale]

the SSID is just a logical entity, at low level the chipset is doing the same stuff with channels and frequencies. If you use 1 ssid for both 2.4/5ghz you are not sharing anything, 2.4 devices will use 2.4ghz band/channels and 5ghz will use theirs, there's no sharing because of the same SSID. It's a misconception. I constantly read this in network forums but it's a big misunderstanding. SSIDs are used for a "logical" separation, not physical.

the only times when I advise to create a separate SSID_5ghz is when you have an old legacy device that doesn't behave correctly in a specific frequency or when you want to force it connecting in 2.4 or 5 and it doesn't allow you to configure it that way.

Maybe I did not made myself clear as this was to resolve this specific problem. Sharing the same SSID will give the choice to the client as to which frequency band to use and therefore by default, it will most likely either pick 2.4 or constantly jump between the two. This is what I meant by the device on 5GHz sharing the 2.4GHz bandwidth. Band steering does not work the same on every device and in my experience is pretty buggy for most. For a camera for which you want an interrupted stream, you definitely want to avoid these jumps. I was not suggesting what you said: shared SSID means devices share all bandwidth. Devices however share bandwidth whenever they jump from band to band generating additional wifi overhead and decreasing overall wifi bandwidth efficiency. I always advise to keep them separated as the benefit of having them merged together is much lower than the loss in bandwidth and efficiency of the system. It is a case of 1+2 = 2.5. There are only very rare cases where it is beneficial to have only one (When people don't care about overall stability and bandwidth and just want the simplicity of having one SSID and credential set, or want to have the range of the 2.4GHz in situations when they cannot have a 5GHz signal and their device is not able to handle multiple SSID properly even if it means they lose some stability of their connection)

 

[alexdelprete]

Band steering does not work the same on every device and in my experience is pretty buggy for most. For a camera for which you want an interrupted stream, you definitely want to avoid these jumps.

Band steering was a huge feature for wifi networks in which you had mixed legacy and newer dual-band wifi clients. It provides a more even distribution of devices on your Wi-Fi network, as well as improved performance due to reduced 2.4 GHz congestion. In order to take advantage of band-steering wifi network should be configured in single-SSID configuration for both 2.4/5ghz.

Band steering is a technique used in dual band WiFi equipment that encourages newer client devices to use the less congested 5 GHz network. Here’s how it works. When a new device connects to the network, the access point will determine if it is dual-band capable (in other words, can the device connect to the 5 GHz band). If it can, the access point will push the device to connect on 5 GHz by blocking any attempt by the device to connect to the 2.4 GHz band. This ensures that the 5 GHz devices (like your phone or television) can achieve peak performance without being slowed down by the older 802.11b/g clients on the network. In short, a network with band steering will enable you to get the most out of your newer devices while still making sure that older devices can connect.

Here's a quick picture of the provided benefit:



So if you have a client that is 2.4/5ghz capable, and the environmental conditions and placement of the wifi APs is appropriate, you get the benefit of having all dual-band devices automatically choose the best band available. If a client doesn't have dual-band, band steering doesn't come into play, so it will always connect at 2.4ghz. Once a client connects, it doesn't go back and forth switching bands like you seem to suggest. It doesn't work that way. It's an initial handshake made to encourage the use of 5ghz for newer devices. Clients don't do roaming because of band steering. That's a totally different thing and standard (802.11k, 802.11r, 802.11v).

My Ezviz DB1 always connects at 5ghz with my mesh network, because it has an appropriate driver that supports band-steering correctly and my mesh guarantees an even distribution of both 2.4/5ghz in all spots. If the camera connects at 2.4ghz it means the wifi AP does not support band-steering or implements it badly. Many producers advise specifically to use band-steering and one SSID, and that's not just for preference, it means that things are designed to work that way, if they don't, it means there are other underlying root issues that are to be addressed. In the case of @andycots, he reported that his camera connects at 2.4ghz, even though his wifi supports 5ghz, that means his wifi AP doesn't support band-steering or isn't configured correctly, since the camera supports it perfectly well.

I always advise to keep them separated as the benefit of having them merged together is much lower than the loss in bandwidth and efficiency of the system.

I always advice AGAINST separating SSIDs (if you have decent wifi APs that support band steering) because band-steering and one-SSID decongestions the wifi network and was created to improve the efficiency of the system.

For an in-depth explanation of band-steering and its benefit, you can read this article: Reduce Wi-Fi Congestion With Band Steering - SmallNetBuilder
In the first page you will read this: "The key to using Band Steering is creating Wi-Fi networks with the same SSID on both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz."

There are only very rare cases where it is beneficial to have only one (When people don't care about overall stability and bandwidth and just want the simplicity of having one SSID and credential set, or want to have the range of the 2.4GHz in situations when they cannot have a 5GHz signal and their device is not able to handle multiple SSID properly even if it means they lose some stability of their connection)

This argument confirms you don't know how band-steering works and why it was created. If you cannot have a 5ghz connection because of physical constraints, the client connects in 2.4ghz, that's why old legacy wifi clients still work with newer dual-band APs that support band-steering. There is absolutely no downside in using single-SSID, provided you have decent APs with proper band steering support, equivalent 2.4ghz/5ghz coverage, and you configured everything correctly of course.

 

[andycots]

Not throwing fuel on but, i have reset to a single ssid now and noticed when setting the network in batch config it does show 2 of my ssid but with different kb/s, one at 144 and one at 450, so now chose the 450 one and all good. Which is something people could be made aware of.

Cheers

Now working ok can get onto trying to curl/soap into camera then try to switch the "answer call" on/off with a geofence, so when out it calls me and when home i just chimes through Alexa.

 

[rafale]

So if you have a client that is 2.4/5ghz capable, and the environmental conditions and placement of the wifi APs is appropriate, you get the benefit of having all dual-band devices automatically choose the best band available. If a client doesn't have dual-band, band steering doesn't come into play, so it will always connect at 2.4ghz. Once a client connects, it doesn't go back and forth switching bands like you seem to suggest. It doesn't work that way. It's an initial handshake made to encourage the use of 5ghz for newer devices. Clients don't do roaming because of band steering. That's a totally different thing and standard (802.11k, 802.11r, 802.11v).

This is true in theory but in practice, devices get kicked out occasionally because of bad packets, interferences and collisions (if your 5GHz is in the radar band, the AP will kick the device) . So the devices will move to 2.4GHz and then steered back to 5GHz. The kick and restart of the handshake is what is creating the overhead and the loss of bandwidth and specifically for the camera: dropped frames. This was intended especially for mobile devices and may not just involve band steering but this has been my observation. I monitor my unifi network closely and can assure you that devices disconnect and reconnect regularly and will pick whichever band is most favorable at that moment which constantly changes depending on their environment. (neighbor signals other devices etc).
In comparison, a single SSID setup will not even need the band steering. The client will only join the 5GHz band without needing to use band steering which requires packets exchanges at 2.4GHz first and band change, then handshake.

I always advice AGAINST separating SSIDs (if you have decent wifi APs that support band steering) because band-steering and one-SSID decongestions the wifi network and was created to improve the efficiency of the system.

For an in-depth explanation of band-steering and its benefit, you can read this article: Reduce Wi-Fi Congestion With Band Steering - SmallNetBuilder
In the first page you will read this: "The key to using Band Steering is creating Wi-Fi networks with the same SSID on both 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz."

This article only explains why band steering is critical to improve a single SSID setup. You can significantly improve efficiency and decrease congestion by going with the dual SSID setup and force all the dual band devices to the 5GHz SSID or as you choose to the 2.4GHz if it is best suited depending on the location. To me it is a convenience feature, automating what a dual SSID already does but at the cost of some efficiency loss. To be clear single SSID gets you 2+1 = 2.1, Band steering gets you 2+1=2.5 and dual SSID gets 2+1=3 but this last one requires some deeper understanding of the wifi network and is less convenient to setup. I am not saying band steering is bad. It's a great feature. It is great if it works for you and it certainly should work for most people. It is just not the most optimized or efficient from a performance point of view.

 

[alexdelprete]

devices get kicked out occasionally because of bad packets, interferences and collisions (if your 5GHz is in the radar band, the AP will kick the device)

I don't know what you're talking about. A mesh dual-band network, or a standard wifi dual-band network, constantly provides same SSID on both bands and no clients get kicked out at all. Band steering works at the initial connection, in the scan phase, not once the connection is made. If dual-band wifi worked like you are describing, all clients would constantly disconnect, and that's not the case.

The kick and restart of the handshake is what is creating the overhead and the loss of bandwidth.

There's no kick-restart, that is your argument based on a misconception of how band-steering works. Furthermore, even if a client drops out and reconnects, there's no bandwidth loss in general, like you are incorrectly implying.

I monitor my unifi network closely and can assure you that devices disconnect and reconnect regularly and will pick whichever band is most favorable at that moment which constantly changes depending on their environment

The fact that you see constant disconnects/reconnects in your wifi network for fixed wifi devices is not a good sign of a healthy wifi network (despite the fact you're using a good product like Unifi) and is in no way related to band-steering or single-SSID. My fixed wifi devices never disconnect from my mesh wifi network, unless I reboot them or there's a power loss or any other issue, and I monitor closely these things. BTW, I have a question: if you use separate SSIDs to avoid reconnections like you say, why do you see all those disconnections in your wifi network? If what you say was true, wifi videocameras would constantly interrupt the video stream flow to NVRs, and trust me, that is absolutely not the case. Many people (me included) use wifi cameras and don't suffer disconnections issues all day as you said.

You can massively improve efficiency and decrease congestion by eliminating the single SSID setup and force all the dual band devices to the 5GHz SSID or as you choose to the 2.4GHz if it is best suited depending on the location.

Band steering+single-SSID allows you to achieve this automatically, provided you have good wifi signal coverage on both bands. Separating SSIDs is doing the segregation manually, but in a fixed way. That was the "old way" of doing things before smarter APs came to market. It's a bad idea generally speaking and does not achieve ANY advantage respect to a properly setup dual-band wifi network with single-SSID and band steering. Multiple SSIDs should be used as an exception, or last resort, to solve very specific issues in very specific environments, it is absolutely not a best practice.

I replied to your initial post on this topic only because you said band steering and one-SSID creates problems and disconnections and lowers efficiency and bandwidth: well, this is absolutely not true, it's only a personal opinion based on a misconception of how it works technically, not an objective and documented fact at all, quite the contrary I'd say.

 

[alexdelprete]

Not throwing fuel on but, i have reset to a single ssid now and noticed when setting the network in batch config it does show 2 of my ssid but with different kb/s, one at 144 and one at 450, so now chose the 450 one and all good. Which is something people could be made aware of.

Cheers

Now working ok can get onto trying to curl/soap into camera then try to switch the "answer call" on/off with a geofence, so when out it calls me and when home i just chimes through Alexa.

This is a good way to force the camera to use a specific band. Noted. Although I'm not sure if this preference would stick after a reboot, could you check if it does? Maybe after a reboot it goes into auto selection mode.

But let me tell you that it should automatically select the 5ghz if the AP is properly configured and signal strength is good for both bands. What AP/router are you using for wifi?

Can you capture and show me the "Select Wi-Fi" screen?
This is mine: NetStumbling? is my mesh wifi dual-band network, the other 3 ssids are my neighbours).

 

[alexdelprete]

Just checked here changing a dedicated SSID to using only 5Ghz radio on my Ruckus WAP.

The WAP is located in the middle of the first floor in a coat closet.

View attachment 62594

This Ruckus WAP has lot of options, I wish I could have that kind of control on my mesh solution. But it works, even though I'd like full control of things. Anyway it was cheap, with $400 I got 4 APs (TP-Link Deco M9 Plus). They work great, but software is for beginners, it doesn't allow you to configure everything. But I guess for that price you can't pretend too much. Can't compare Enterprise hardware with Consumer stuff.

 

[pete_c]

You posts got me playing some with the Ruckus. I really never touch it. I have Catxx ports all over the place here. IE: bathrooms, TV room behind the couch, TV, Kitchen, et al.

 

[alexdelprete]

You posts got me playing some with the Ruckus. I really never touch it. I have Catxx ports all over the place here. IE: bathrooms, TV room behind the couch, TV, Kitchen, et al.

I'm an old ethernet guy Pete. But in latest years I played with wifi a little bit.

In my actual house, built 10y ago, every room has ethernet ports, but no cables passed. I will do it this year, it'll be my next project. gigabit ethernet in every room, plus new cameras around the house, PoE models. I will need new switches, one for cameras with PoE ports, the other for the gigabit LAN, and I will connect the two with a couple of fibers. Going back to what I did for work many years ago, it was fun. Back to Visio!

 

[David L]

This Ruckus WAP has lot of options, I wish I could have that kind of control on my mesh solution. But it works, even though I'd like full control of things. Anyway it was cheap, with $400 I got 4 APs (TP-Link Deco M9 Plus). They work great, but software is for beginners, it doesn't allow you to configure everything. But I guess for that price you can't pretend too much. Can't compare Enterprise hardware with Consumer stuff.

My first message in over a month, wow, sorry guys, good news I am getting more and more of my time back.

So I bought the TP-Link EAP PoE WAPs, they allow for 16 SSIDs (8 per each Band), VLANs, Multiple Subnets:

AC1750 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Ceiling Mount Access Point

Outfitted with the latest 802.11ac Wave 2 MU-MIMO technology, the EAP245 easily delivers dual-band Wi-Fi speeds of up to 1750 Mbps to multiple devices at the same time.

www.tp-link.com

AC1350 Wireless MU-MIMO Gigabit Ceiling Mount Access Point

Outfitted with the latest 802.11ac Wave 2 MU-MIMO technology, the EAP225 easily delivers dual-band Wi-Fi speeds of up to 1350 Mbps to multiple devices at the same time.

www.tp-link.com

https://www.amazon.com/EAP245-Wireless-seamless-Supports-Injector/dp/B07NMZR3F1

(I got mine for $80)

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-EAP225-V3-Wireless-Supports/dp/B0781YXFBT

($60)

Of course this is mainly for business setup, having multiple SSIDs is pretty common in an office environment. We use to install WAPs like these in lobbies and deli areas of office buildings. The PoE is great for placement.

Check out these options for my switches:

Loading...

emulator.tp-link.com

Also this WAP Software Rocks:

Omada Controller

emulator.tp-link.com

I ended up getting one 24 port, one 16 port and two 8 port switches. May get one more 8 port in the future. Thought of running fiber to each switch but then I think I may be taking my home network a little too far
Still though, don't everything setup yet. But what I have running is running Great. Really loving this TP-Link gear so far. I did go with L3 Managed switches, Enterprise Home Networking at a Very Reasonable price...

Take Care all,
David

 

[alexdelprete]

My first message in over a month, wow, sorry guys, good news I am getting more and more of my time back.

The man is back in town.

Great to read you my friend. We missed you. Hope things are getting better for you and your family.

 

[David L]

The man is back in town.

Great to read you my friend. We missed you. Hope things are getting better for you and your family.

Thank you, things are, slowly getting back to my life. You ought to see my honey-do list though If Mamma ain't happy, No one is happy She has been very patient though through all of of this. I just have to say, Caregivers are very special awesome people, I thought I was about to go crazy. I am definitely a terrible Caregiver...It takes a village to care for someone in need...

 

[David L]

Wow, just noticed, almost 200 pages...Wow...

 

[David L]

I'm an old ethernet guy Pete. But in latest years I played with wifi a little bit.

In my actual house, built 10y ago, every room has ethernet ports, but no cables passed. I will do it this year, it'll be my next project. gigabit ethernet in every room, plus new cameras around the house, PoE models. I will need new switches, one for cameras with PoE ports, the other for the gigabit LAN, and I will connect the two with a couple of fibers. Going back to what I did for work many years ago, it was fun. Back to Visio!

I finally got my wiring done, after almost 8 years in this house. I highly recommend the Managed switches TP-Link offers, if you want Layer 3 switches. Crazy how you can get Enterprise switches for so cheap now a days. Rarely could you get them under a grand back in the day (most were $1500 to $2000 range), now they are under $200. I push large files through my network and these switches handle the traffic with no problem. Can't say how they would handle multiple users in an office but I have read great reviews on them. Also their support has been great, I can easily chat support to get quick answers, phone support (Tier 1) has not been too bad either coming from China.

So I have played with yEd Graph Editor from yworks a bit. I have not tried their online version, probably won't, I am using the windows version. It is free but it is not Visio, though I was able to throw together a network diagram fairly easily, I will share with you PM.

 

[David L]

So what the heck, I will post the diagram, does not really have any IP/MAC info:

Did Blue for Wired and Green for WiFi connections...Need to update the switches since I replaced them with L3 Managed switches...Yes we have a Google Mini in our bathroom , I get weather/news/etc. while getting ready

 

[andycots]

This is myn, the SKY ones, but before i moved the router the SKY 144 was at the top and the SKY 450 was a lot lower because the signal was a lot weaker due to not travelling as far, 5GHz only around 15ft i believe.

 

[alexdelprete]

This is myn, the SKY ones, but before i moved the router the SKY 144 was at the top and the SKY 450 was a lot lower because the signal was a lot weaker due to not travelling as far, 5GHz only around 15ft i believe.

View attachment 62643

Now I understand your disconnection problems: a SKY router? What is it, cable connection? Is there a manufacturer/model number on the box? In my experience those kind of devices are not reliable at all.

 

[pete_c]

Here for many years (well since the beginning of broadband ISP boxes) have always done it all a la carte.

Mostly because I always wanted to own all of my equipment and not lease any ISP equipment.

Many times a combo SOHO modem/router/switch/firewall/WAP is mounted near the ingress of the internet in the house which many times is not optimal for wireless propagation.

Initial DIY'd autonomous WAP's (DD-WRT / OpenWRT) made by Linksys and Buffalo then went to Ubiquiti and today Ruckus. The autonomous WAP allows for positioning (POE) anywhere in the house and typically provides a better footprint this way.

 

[TechBill]

Look like the EZVIZ Doorbell is the popular one that Amazon is out of it.

There are third party sellers you can get but I had Amazon points I wanted to use to buy another one for back door to use as a camera security . Awwwwww

I think I will use the points and get an another UniFi access point instead.

We have the UniFi HD Pro AP but have anyone tried the newUniFi nanoHD Access Point? I am thinking of getting this one for our basement or swap with our HD Pro and move it to basement.

Access Point nanoHD

Dual-band, 802.11ac Wave 2 access point that can support over 200 clients with its 2+ Gbps aggregate throughput rate. The Access Point nanoHD (UAP nanoHD) is a compact, dual-band access point that can reach a 2+ Gbps aggregate throughput rate with its 5 GHz (4x4 MU-MIMO) and 2.4 GHz (2x2 MIMO)...

store.ui.com