New to Cams and Surveillance Toys

[harleyfart]

Can Hikvision system be automated to backup DVR recordings immediately to a second, physical file location such as a NAS? Immediately being defined as it is being recorded.

Currently running Hikvision system with: 9 exterior cams on 16 channel DVR with 4 TB HDD internal storage, recording 24/7. Backup is run on a once per day schedule, recording previous 24 hour period per cam.

Alternative is to re-wire system to include fake DVR in location of working DVR at cost of $1700.00. There has to be a less expensive alternative. I hope someone here has the solution I am looking for.

Thank you in advance for responses.

 

[fenderman]

What model cameras and dvr?

 

[harleyfart]

Oh, jeez...not sure I know the cams but DVR is a DS-7216HWI-SH. Cams are connected via coax to DVR. They are not IP cams. I would have to dig through mountain of paper to find invoice, hoping for definitive camera make and model to be listed. However, here are a couple of screen shots. that I hope will help answer your question.
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Note: I am aware that I can add a NAS to the configuration. I am just not ready to "format" an entire NAS unit of 8 TB that already has saved data. Nor do I want to forego utilizing the 4 TB HDD capacity if the DVR, if I can avoid that.
My main objective here is to capture files away from the DVR in the event that there is ever a break-in at the house and thieves take the DVR. I want the evidence safely tucked away in a place that they would not suspect. And, yes, will be moving NAS to secluded, isolated place in the house eventually.
I've almost come to the conclusion that I am going to have to commit one of my 3 NAS units to this and live with 4TB of DVR disk capacity unutilized. Certainly do not want to spend $1700 when I have solution pretty much already in hand. It'll just be a matter of moving data around and implementation, I suppose.

 

[harleyfart]

Oh, jeez...not sure I know the cams but DVR is a DS-7216HWI-SH. Cams are connected via coax to DVR. They are not IP cams. I would have to dig through mountain of paper to find invoice, hoping for definitive camera make and model to be listed. However, here are a couple of screen shots. that I hope will help answer your question.
***
Appears that the screenshots did not "stick"... doodoo!

 

[fenderman]

@harleyfart
Unfortunately you are using an old school analog dvr so your options are limited. The DVR does seem to support writing to NAS storage but its not clear of it can record locally and NAS simultaneously. You may also be able to stream video from the nvr to a pc running ivms-4200 software and store video there.
You can also split the signal with a splitter and record to a secondary dvr.

 

[alastairstevenson]

I am just not ready to "format" an entire NAS unit of 8 TB that already has saved data

It may be worth experimenting with adding a new share and setting a user storage quota if the NAS supports that capability.
The 'format' consists of creating a skeleton directory structure and a large number of placeholder files - but you probably knew that.

In the unlikely event that a Windows destination would work for you - there is a Hikvision backup tool here:
http://www.hikvisioneurope.com/portal/index.php?dir=Software/00 Software Tool Package/07 Remote Backup/
I tried it a while back but to be honest, I found it quite unfriendly and hard to figure. But it does exist for the purpose that you need.

And - maybe something out on the edges of usefulness - your DVR may offer encoded video streams that you could pick off using something like VLC on the NAS, though a bit cumbersome stream by stream then the storage configuration to set up.
The way to figure out if the DVR does offer video streams, assuming it's ONVIF compatible, is to check it out with the very good Windows open-source tool 'ONVIF Device Manager' from sourceforge.net
It will show you what if any streams the DVR has available, example below:

 

[alastairstevenson]

Here is something I hadn't tried before, may be of interest if your DVR offers encoded video streams from the cameras.
I added a stream from one NVR as a custom camera channel on another NVR, and it seems to work OK.
So, assuming the DVR could cope with the extra loading - and my own experience is that pulling extra streams off an NVR only minimally affects the CPU utilisation - maybe a hidden NVR could be used for recording.

 

[harleyfart]

Yes, sir! Recording to a second DVR option was exactly what I was wanting to avoid [financially], especially since I have the 3 NAS devices. One is pretty old [ReadyNAS NV+], the second is a WD MyCloudEX, and the newest addition is a QNAP 469 Pro [I think]. And, yes, I am using analog. I chose that over wireless, IP cams simply due to security concerns with wireless and my lack of knowledge of wireless security protocols.

As I stated, I'm pretty new to all of this. When the contractor installed the system, I was told several things could not be done. However, doing my research, I am finding that they [contractor & techs] were either mistaken, uninformed, or outright lying. I stumbled across the backup software by sending a question to Hikvision support. They immediately refuted the contractor's claim that the DVR could not be backed up.

I also asked if it were possible to record directly to a NAS devise. Same answer - NO...and, like you indicated, the DVR and client software allow me to insert a NAS via IP address as a storage option. But, that is as far as the 'regular' client allows. I've not been able to get the NAS HDD to "format".....

I'm going to try it using the Hikvision iVMS 4200-PCNVR software instead of just the normal client software. Don't know how that will work but think I'll give it a go...I can always use the HDDs from the DVR for other things if I get the NAS to work.

Thank you! Everyone has been so incredibly helpful.

 

[fenderman]

Great. The real shame here is that they did a new install with only 960h and used coax...

 

[harleyfart]

Yes, backup software is very cryptic and user unfriendly. That is putting it mildly. However, I have a backup on a couple of PCs setup to pull files at different time intervals. Problem with the backup is that you can't schedule it instantaneously...like to be triggered the moment one of the cams detects motion. That would be ideal because then I could write a 'move' batch file to relocate the 'backups' to a NAS and schedule the move of files via Task Scheduler.

However, I think the idea of streaming has real potential. I'll need to really familiarize myself with it, the process, etc....

Thank you for the idea! I would never have considered that. But, you guys are so beyond where I am with this system, it isn't even funny. I'm just wading in because it appears the contractor that I used to install and setup the system really didn't know a hell of a lot more than I did at the time. I advised him of the backup software....he wasn't aware of it existing until I provided the link...I will not spend another dime on the guy or his crew. Ergo, the reason I'm out here with my hand out, palm up...

Again, thank you all. You've been most helpful and very kind to a 62 year old. Greatly appreciated.

 

[harleyfart]

My original strategy was to re-wire/relocate working DVR with a fake one in current location, while relocating functioning DVR deeper into the house where it would not be readily seen should there be a break-in/burglary. Estimated cost for that was $1700.00.
I think I can get same result basically for a lot less than that, using predominantly the resources I already have available.

 

[harleyfart]

So, what you just said equates to me being sold a bill of goods, basically, right?

 

[fenderman]

So, what you just said equates to me being sold a bill of goods, basically, right?

Well it depends...if they offered you other options and you turned them down. Its 2015, HD video should at the minimum be on the table. IP preferred but at least HD over coax..and in a new install even hd over "coax" should be wired with ethernet so it can be used for IP in the future..

 

[harleyfart]

Well it depends...if they offered you other options and you turned them down. Its 2015, HD video should at the minimum be on the table. IP preferred but at least HD over coax..and in a new install even hd over "coax" should be wired with ethernet so it can be used for IP in the future..

We discussed two options: coax and wireless, with the emphasis from the contractor being leveled at weak security where wireless is concerned. I knew that to be true but actually thought that I was getting HD. That said, you now know why I am out here educating myself through the goodwill of people such as you, fenderman. What really ticked me off was fact that contractor acted like they were doing me a favor when I confronted them about what had actually been installed.
Anyway, can't win that battle without a very expensive attorney. So, you move on and try to salvage what you can.

 

[fenderman]

Wireless should never be used except as a last resort. If the contractor told you that you are getting HD then they defrauded you.
You can still upgrade to hd over coax at some later point...

 

[alastairstevenson]

Yes, sir! Recording to a second DVR option was exactly what I was wanting to avoid [financially],

Actually not that expensive.
My last NVR, a 16ch 7816N-E2, cost around $150 delivered.
Add a couple of 4TB drives and you've got plenty of storage.
Did you found out if your DVR was offering encoded streams from the connected cameras?

 

[Lunchietey]

We discussed two options: coax and wireless, with the emphasis from the contractor being leveled at weak security where wireless is concerned. I knew that to be true but actually thought that I was getting HD.

Why were the only options coax and wireless? Why not coax, wireless and Cat5 IP wired? Wired IP is basically as secure as a coax system?

Also is there no way of making your current DVR more physically secure? Locked cabinet etc?

 

[harleyfart]

Wireless should never be used except as a last resort. If the contractor told you that you are getting HD then they defrauded you.
You can still upgrade to hd over coax at some later point...

No fraud involved. Just a very shoddy install. I expected a more professional install than what I got. It was terrible and I am in process of resolving now that I am unemployed. Time on my hands kind of thing

I'll be in the attic sometime this week in 100*+ temps, pulling CAT6 cables in order to split HDMI from DVR to LCDs in different rooms of the house. I want as close to instantaneous monitoring as possible. Not in a high-crime neighborhood, but crime % is encroaching, AND, my wife and I are not getting any younger. I can have this phase of improving my system capabilities for around $200 and a lot of sweat. Beats spending $1700.

I will eventually be installing a BNC bulkhead wallplate to replace the 2" hole in the wall where cables were run into house from drop though the roof in garage. For what I spent, that should have been part of the install, imo. I mean, one should be able to expect cable management somewhere in a project, right?

On different note, I had two different NAS devices configured on DVR using the PCNVR client software from Hikvision. No issues with manual captures of pics to the NAS & actually somehow captured a couple of video segments before configuration seemingly vanished. I may have caused that vanishing act by running both client versions side by side on same PC. However, was encouraged that it can be accomplished and will pursue once I have a PC that can be dedicated to monitoring the NAS and DVR files. One issue encountered is client requirement of 'pre-allocation' of HDDs. QNAP NAS was NOT happy with that arrangement. ReadyNAS NAS had no complaints with HDDs being pre-allocated. Without the pre-allocation, NAS does not become an available storage option.

As an FYI, I mapped NAS to PC, then pre-allocated the mapped drive. Not sure if that is only way to make NAS work with my DVR, but it seems to be the path to a desired resolution.

 

[harleyfart]

Actually not that expensive.
My last NVR, a 16ch 7816N-E2, cost around $150 delivered.
Add a couple of 4TB drives and you've got plenty of storage.
Did you found out if your DVR was offering encoded streams from the connected cameras?

I made that statement because I have available 3 NAS devices. Two are at 8TB running RAID 5 on 3 HDDs with one spare HDD that would automatically replace any "hot" HDD that might fail. One of those two can be pushed to 12TB under RAID 5 [16TB max capacity]. The third is an old Netgear ReadyNAS 4 disk but can utilize 2TB HDDs. I have 1TB HDDs in it currently.

ReadyNAS has no problem with PCNVR requirement of pre-allocated HDD capacity whereas QNAP balks and squawks. I did not attempt connecting WD MyCloud EX4 NAS.
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RE: encoded streams - it appears that DVR is configurable for streaming from each Camera. I move slowly, Alastair, when I am not familiar with what I am doing. I'm far more comfortable on a drilling rig or a Harley than I am with this...hahahahahaha. I'm just slow on uptake with this technology, terminology, and functionality, or capabilities.

Your NVR of choice is now running a little more than twice that much from Amazon. Not overly prohibitive but a lot when out of work & NAS devices readily available. Both me and the wife have an issue with me spending her paycheck...hahhaha

 

[harleyfart]

Why were the only options coax and wireless? Why not coax, wireless and Cat5 IP wired? Wired IP is basically as secure as a coax system?

Also is there no way of making your current DVR more physically secure? Locked cabinet etc?

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That is how I remember the conversation - coax vs wireless. I do not recall any mention of CAT6 cable at all. I was, however, shown footage of HD vs the Analog cams that I would be using. Not much differentiation. I have Sony DH-DF-437W & DH-BF-647W cams. IP cams were discussed but summarily dismissed by contractor as being too expensive due to power needs. I later discovered that smart switches exist that can provide POE. I was/am not a happy camper.
No, in answer to "more physically secured"; not unless I want to remodel my den to extent that it looks like one wall is directly from a warehouse or something. Analog cams require 12v power source. It is mounted on same wall as coax cable entry from garage, where coax & power cabling drop from attic. Had I known just the little bit of info I've garnered from this forum, there would have been major differences in outcome.

I am currently contemplating BNC bulkhead wallplate to clean up the original installation by attempting some cable management but I can not relocate the cam power source without also re-running all coax. Really don't want to do that.