New user: 16+ 1080 Camera Security System

symilds

n3wb
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Theft is becoming a significant problem for us, and accounts for approximately $100 per week in shrinkage.
We had an aging Blue Iris set-up with a few cameras, but they weren't the best of quality and didn't really give us a great overview.
We essentially want to go absolutely overboard in an attempt to catch some of these... 'people'
There has been a massive influx of what seems to be absolute garbage into the market and I want to make sure I get something that suits.
  • 16 x 1080 Cameras. Wired or wireless, I don't mind, there is cat6 everywhere....
  • I don't mind if POE or not. I can get power everywhere if needed.
The important stuff:
I would like the ability to:
  • Watch all cameras at once, preferably across 4 large monitors.
  • Ideally have a 5th monitor that scrolls through the cameras that I can put somewhere customers can see as a deterant.
  • Replay all (including rewind, pause, ff etc)(or a select few) cameras at the same time
  • Easily export frames/clips to a networked computer as needed
  • Atleast 15fps, preferably 20.. Theives are fast...
  • Atleast 7 days of footagestorage
Based on past experience I would do this with Blueriris, but I fear the price of the PC I would need to run this would be painfully prohibitive.
I have reservations with "all in one" systems, but think they are likely the way I am going to be forced to go.
Any ideas where I should be looking? I know it's a tall order.
 

myknownself

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16 x 2MP(1080) x 20fps = 640MP/s

"500-800 MP/s --- 3rd-7th gen i7 desktop CPU (4 cores + hyperthreading) or 8th-9th gen i5 desktop CPU (6 cores) " - as per Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris

I know in the past it was recommended looking for an open box or factory refurbished on ebay which is what I'm currently doing. I'm not having luck until the i7-6700 though in price, and most of those are slim form factors so can't add the hard drives inside the case. My issue is that a lot of the computers up have graphics cards added on that up the price that we don't want for blue iris, and they only have 8gb of ram and I want the 16gb. Granted I'm mostly looking at the buy it now prices rather than watching and waiting for auctions as I'm in a hurry.

If the 6700 can get you the 800MP/s that could be up to 20 2MP cameras at 20fps or 26 2MP at 15fps




I'm thinking to build a new i7-9700 will be $878.44 though may need another $100-200 in hard drives. According to the link that could get you 27 2MP cameras at 20fps, or 36 2MP cameras at 15fps, or 18 4MP cameras at 15fps.
The i9-9900 build looks to be $1,100 and according that list maybe up to 37 2MP cameras at 20fps, 50 2MP @ 15fps, 18 4mp @ 20fps, 25 4MP @ 15fps

Those prices are if I didn't miss anything though.
 

SouthernYankee

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The system above I believe is over kill. A 16 camera 1080P can easily be done with a much older system. Get a used corp. system on ebay.
See thge wiki Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris

Look at PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs for CPU comparison.
Look at Blue Iris Update Helper for what other BI system are doing.
Calculate your Megapixel/second worse case 16 cameras 20 frames/sec 1080x1920 = 663552000 = 663 MP/SEC

Storage easily an 8 TB WD purple will store way more then a week.
 

SouthernYankee

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TL1096r

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16 x 2MP(1080) x 20fps = 640MP/s

"500-800 MP/s --- 3rd-7th gen i7 desktop CPU (4 cores + hyperthreading) or 8th-9th gen i5 desktop CPU (6 cores) " - as per Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris

I know in the past it was recommended looking for an open box or factory refurbished on ebay which is what I'm currently doing. I'm not having luck until the i7-6700 though in price, and most of those are slim form factors so can't add the hard drives inside the case. My issue is that a lot of the computers up have graphics cards added on that up the price that we don't want for blue iris, and they only have 8gb of ram and I want the 16gb. Granted I'm mostly looking at the buy it now prices rather than watching and waiting for auctions as I'm in a hurry.

If the 6700 can get you the 800MP/s that could be up to 20 2MP cameras at 20fps or 26 2MP at 15fps




I'm thinking to build a new i7-9700 will be $878.44 though may need another $100-200 in hard drives. According to the link that could get you 27 2MP cameras at 20fps, or 36 2MP cameras at 15fps, or 18 4MP cameras at 15fps.
The i9-9900 build looks to be $1,100 and according that list maybe up to 37 2MP cameras at 20fps, 50 2MP @ 15fps, 18 4mp @ 20fps, 25 4MP @ 15fps

Those prices are if I didn't miss anything though.
Yes I always suggest go with more and save money having to upgrade later. I have a i5-8500 running 29-38% with only 310 MP/s. I have all suggested settings but do have 2 UI3 running so it could be the issue.
 

jack7

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symilds,
I don't know your layout, but it sounds like maybe a retail environment with lots of customers. You might want to consider adding some fisheye cameras. It might help watching a lot of things at one time. Here's an old video.
 

myknownself

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Another reason for having overhead in cpu is for video playback. With the old pc I had it got to the point where when I would fast forward video clips the video would freeze up and skip lots of frames, and playback of all cameras at once wasn't possible.
 

looney2ns

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Keep in mind, in most case's all you need is 15fps. In a lot of retail environments they only use 1-2 fps.
If the monitoring station will be manned, maybe some PTZ cams as well.
Don't mount the cams too high, you need to see their faces.
Mount a camera at face level at the front door, so you get an ID coming and going.

Avoid Wireless.

 

symilds

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Firstly, thank you all for the comments and sorry I haven't been able to reply earlier. Life got in the way

16 x 2MP(1080) x 20fps = 640MP/s

"500-800 MP/s --- 3rd-7th gen i7 desktop CPU (4 cores + hyperthreading) or 8th-9th gen i5 desktop CPU (6 cores) " - as per Choosing Hardware for Blue Iris
Makes sense. I've had a look and can get something in that range or slightly higher second hand cheap enough.

A 16 camera 1080P can easily be done with a much older system.
I'm actually now considering some 4k cameras. Price is obviously the driving factor though

Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras

Cameras to look at
This is going to take some time to go through. Thanks!

sounds like maybe a retail environment with lots of customers. You might want to consider adding some fisheye cameras.
Got any suggestions? Isles are quite narrow and gondolas are 2m tall so i'm not sure they will work all that well.

Another reason for having overhead in cpu is for video playback.
This is a major consideration. I want playback on no less than 5 monitors at once. Is it possible to have BI web viewer open multiple times with multiple saved layouts? ( each monitor will be different layout)
I have some old raspbery pi's I can probably use.

Keep in mind, in most case's all you need is 15fps. In a lot of retail environments they only use 1-2 fps.
You haven't seen our thieves :-D

Don't mount the cams too high, you need to see their faces.
Mount a camera at face level at the front door, so you get an ID coming and going.
Good point!




So, I had actually accepted the fact I would need to use a Hikvision all in one to make this work.. Glad I came here first.

Now it's time for the dream list...
1. Is facial recognition and tracking even possible? I would love to assign numbers to people and track them throughout the store, with all cameras that can see them showing on screen. I know this isn't possible... but I can dream..
2. Saved webview layouts for multiple monitors
3. 4k cameras if I can afford them
4. Is there any other cool tech out there that may be useful?

I found another $300 of empty packages today so I am on the warpath.


Cameras will not be manned, usually only two staff on at a time. Store is 600sqm
 
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