Newbie looking for a system had a breakin

TheWAFA

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ok so I had a breakin and worried for my family. I live in a very nice neighborhood and own a Doberman. I purchased a alarm system and Arlo Cameras but not thrilled with the setup. I have been comparing BNC and IP cameras with dvr and nvr. Price points are all over the map as well as quality it seems.

I am am not looking to spend a fortune but want upgrade ability and not sure if I should go to a blue iris system as I am a kinda computer savvy guy and also what may have a cloud backup solution in case I have another breaking and hey steal the dvr.

I am am also not sure if I need 8 camera more or less. I have a 2 story home that is 2800 square feet on two sides of the house I have native growth and I sloping backyard where they broke in before.

I appreciate ate the help and look forward to learning the best option

Thanks

Matt
 

jasauders

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Hey there, TheWAFA. Couple thoughts come to mind. For one, you mention you're computer savvy. That's good! I'd recommend an IP based system, particularly with POE (power over ethernet). The benefits are endless and worth every penny.

IP based systems allow you to work with higher resolutions, can expand out further pending the server/NVR is capable enough, etc etc. If you lump POE into the mix, it allows you to transmit data *and* power over a single ethernet line. Running cat5e/cat6 is easy compared to pulling 14-2/12-2 electrical line to install new electrical outlets to power the cameras. Plus, it's less money (wiring wise) in the end, as you only have 1 type of wire to buy/run in a POE setup.

When I was searching around for an NVR solution, I wanted it to be ran on a computer/server, but specifically on Linux (personal preference). My NVR solution runs on something known as Bluecherry. My server is an old i3, 8GB of RAM, 2TB (for CCTV) storage. Since I already had my server and it was already running Ubuntu Server, Bluecherry was a drop-in for me. It's crazy light on system resources as well, which I like (a lot).

Blue Iris is another that is very popular here. It requires Windows, and based on what I've seen, seems to be a bit heavier with system resources. For those that want those extra features (as compared to a regular NVR), people seem to like computer-based NVR solutions. Other folks want things to just do one job and do it well, so a regular NVR becomes their preference. I think you need to sit back and ask yourself what kind of features you want, because a server capable of Blue Iris (picking on BI in particular since you mentioned interest) can be a bit more expensive to boot.

As far as cameras, placement, etc., I'll tell you what I did. I looked at a satellite image of my house and thought long and hard about what I want captured. There are a few areas of my yard that aren't captured, because quite frankly, I don't care to have 24/7 recordings of my side yard with nothing but a tree sitting there. Areas of interest, such as my driveway, back door, front door, the back yard where the shed is, etc., are areas I wanted covered.

That's where I started. What I ended up with was cat6 ran through my house, 4 outdoor 3mpx cameras, 2 indoor 3mpx cameras acting as kiddo cameras as I have 2 youngsters, an NVR solution on top of my server I already owned/was running 24/7, and some POE goodness. It runs great, I dig it, and based on my system load, it hardly even knows it's working.

In terms of a secondary backup location though, that I'm not sure. You could hide a second computer elsewhere in the house and sync everything over every-so-often. I thought about doing that, but I think what I'll end up doing is locking my server within an enclosure of some sort. Haven't gotten to that point yet though, but it's in the planning stages.

Hope this helps!
 

fenderman

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Dont even consider analog cameras. Its 2016 and you should be using ip. If you use blue iris you can record both to the local disk and a hidden nas simultaneously. Depending on the resolution of the cameras you can easily run 8 cams on a 300 dollar i5-4590 system and certainly on a 500 dollar i7-4790 with tons of room to spare. Blue iris has TONS of custom options that NVR's and other software do not.
 

TheWAFA

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Ok so Blue Iris seems like a smart move then. What about running 8-12 cameras some for interior use? Also looking for Cameras that are a good bank for the buck as POE IP and Inexpensive??/
 

jasauders

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Can't comment on Blue Iris as I don't run it. I'll let others chime in there.

I have two Hikvision 2432 Cube cameras for interior use. They're good little POE (and wifi, but meh**) cameras. They do the job quite well. I got them on Amazon (gray market, no warranty) from a seller that had good feedback (POEDepot). They ran me about 125 each. According to the serial numbers, I received what I was expecting from the description: US branded cameras. These cameras allow for firmware upgrades, whereas the Chinese variants often do not. If this matters to you, you'll have to take particular note to this. The location I mounted the Hikvision's makes the IR power a non-issue with night time visibility, as it's relatively close to where the kids sleep. I've heard reports of Hikvisions not being as strong as Dahua in the IR department, but I can't really comment on that as I haven't seen it in my close-proximity application.

Outside I have four EyeSurv APEX3 DM3 domes. They're 3mp weatherproof domes that do the job quite well. One thing I particularly like about these cameras is it seems as if the dome gets positioned smack against the rubber gasket, thereby cutting back on IR glare that is sometimes seen on other domes. I have zero IR glare with mine and quite like that. Good picture, great night time visibility (though nothing beats a flood light), and I can actually log in and configure it without needing Internet Explorer (bravo!).

EyeSurv is available at Nelly's Security. They are rebranded Dahua cameras. I've had great success with Nelly's. Their support has been quick, they responded to questions I asked, and they were overall very helpful. I'll certainly be shopping with them again.

A current build I am doing for my in-laws is using four of the EyeSurv DM3 dome cameras along with Bluecherry. I plan on doing the install this Saturday. Two of the cameras will be placed indoors. While these are outdoor cameras, I had no reason to believe they wouldn't perform very well indoors, so I went with those for the indoor applications as well. I can comment more after I do the install, though given the size of the house, the length of cat6 runs I need to do, etc etc, I'm doubtful I'll even get to see how they perform indoors until a later time.

**Originally I ran these Hikvisions with wireless. Reason being is they are temporary cameras. As my kiddos get older, they'll be removed. Because of this, I figured wireless was a safe bet. With my Netgear N600 router, it struggled pretty hard to keep up. I kept seeing drops within my NVR's event log. I bit the bullet, bought a 1,000 foot box of cat6 pure copper cable (thanks MonoPrice), and ran all of the lines. In the end I made it count and ran two cat6 lines to each bedroom, then just patched the high-up-the-wall-Hikvisions into the wall ports I installed. As the kiddos get older, I'll just remove the camera/patch cable, and they can run a desktop computer, Roku, etc off of the ports. Win win. Anyway, point being, just two of these 3mp cameras running @ 5 FPS was enough to cause some wifi chaos, but after running the direct lines, there hasn't been a single issue. I'm much happier with them hard wired. Highly recommended. (that being said, if I was just buying one for a live-view of my pet at a low FPS, I probably wouldn't bother hard wiring it)
 

TheWAFA

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Bluecherry seems cool but do I need the capture cards and etc? That's my draw back. I also am not sure how large of a system I need to build out that's problem 2. here is a build of my home.

But how hard to se and setup + Cost? Need special cameras?
 

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jasauders

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Im Finding
Q-See
Laview
GW
Lorex

As box set brands
I'm not as well versed as some other members here to identify which box brands are rebranded Dahua and which aren't. I believe Q-See and Lorex are... I'm not sure about the others. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct this for sake of accuracy)

Bluecherry seems cool but do I need the capture cards and etc? That's my draw back. I also am not sure how large of a system I need to build out that's problem 2. here is a build of my home.

But how hard to se and setup + Cost? Need special cameras?
Bluecherry only requires capture cards for their analog systems. For their IP systems, you don't need a capture card. You just need your typical networking layout; same as you'd need with Blue Iris, a dedicated NVR, etc. (a preferrably POE switch, cat5e/cat6 wiring, etc)

Bluecherry is easy to set up. It's a matter of pasting a few lines into a terminal to add their repository and it auto downloads it + installs it for you. They have everything on their instructions page, so it's a quick copy/paste, then it's on to setting up cameras, storage, etc. I'm not sure how Blue Iris works, exactly... I understand Blue Iris has the application itself, which runs on the server, and you can access certain things (events, settings, etc) via a web interface of it. Bluecherry is a bit different, in that the server runs *entirely* headless, meaning there's nothing graphical to see on the server application[1]. All of the "good stuff" is baked in to their client, which is cross platform and works on Mac, Linux, and Windows. From there you can set up your cameras, settings, motion vs 24/7 recording, storage location, watch a live view, etc etc etc and those changes directly effect the server. That's one thing I like about it, as the client is very powerful, and works on any computer I may be sitting in front of. I have a computer hooked up to my wall mounted TV. I thoroughly enjoy being able to bring up the client, the very same client as my laptop, desktop, etc., and watch the live stream when I'm on the recliner.

[1]While the server application itself has no graphical interface, you can simply install the "client" on the server to obtain a graphical application. There's also a web interface, but it's a bit limited in comparison to the client. In the end, the "client" *is* the real meat of it all.

They support something like 2,500 cameras "officially" (which simply means they're in the database, so if you select a make/model, it already knows the RTSP stream), but you can add in any RTSP stream you want manually. For example, EyeSurv was not listed, but in the EyeSurv manual I found the RTSP stream. I tossed it in, boom, done, recording.

I'd recommend that you take a look at other options though too. Blue Iris is good stuff from what I hear. I'm in a position where I rely on my Linux server so heavily that it's not going anywhere, so if I were to have gone the Blue Iris route, I would need a whole separate box, which ramped up well beyond my budget (nevermind the fact my current Linux server was already too weak to handle Blue Iris anyway should I have considered leveraging that hardware). Last I looked at my load it was around 0.10, which is ridonkulously low. That's with six cameras recording 24/7, all @ 10 FPS 3 megapixel. Blue Iris and Bluecherry aren't the only things out there. Options are good. Try a few out and see what you think. I'm simply sharing what works for me, but everybody is different. :)
 

TheWAFA

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What is a good and inexpensive camera four out door and then for indoor? Night vision and color? Does BlueCherry and BlueIris have a app for iOS and android phone or tablet?
 

jasauders

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What is a good and inexpensive camera four out door and then for indoor? Night vision and color? Does BlueCherry and BlueIris have a app for iOS and android phone or tablet?
Blue Iris has an app, as far as I'm aware. Bluecherry does not, but is working towards getting one up and running. Bluecherry can leverage TinyCam and IPCamViewer though, which myself and my wife actively use on our phones.

I also have an old 10" Android tablet that sits on my nightstand plugged in 24/7 with swipe-to-unlock disabled, which allows me to roll over in bed, click the power button, boom - live feeds. Regardless of which PCNVR/NVR/whatever solution you go with, having some sort of remote viewer on your night stand is mega nice (particularly if you have very young kids, as I can see what's going on very quickly, whereas I'd otherwise be jumping out of bed like a ninja to make sure the sound I heard was really a false alarm or not).
 

jasauders

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As far as your camera question, I'm not sure I feel qualified enough to give you recommendations, as I simply haven't used as many camera makes/models in comparison to others here. I will tell you though that I am happy with my Hikvision 2432 indoor cube cameras, and I am very happy with my EyeSurv cameras from Nelly's Security.

Given the price and customer-support-experience with Nelly's, I think you might be a little hard pressed to find a "better" camera for cheaper without beginning to sacrifice some other aspects. I've seen other folks here order from aliexpress.com a lot with direct-from-China cameras, but the users here who often do that also tend to have a keen eye for things to look out for. I'm not trying to persuade you against that, I mean, it *is* an option, but it tends to require more reading, research, etc. Me? I was just happy I could go to a web site, find something that fit the bill, ordered it, and was able to use it within days -- full well knowing I could email/call them with questions should I need to.
 

TheWAFA

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Well that is reassuring and I like that idea. Not much lag im guessing?

What about cameras to buy? Also based on pictures of my house where would I place cameras and how many to get
 

jasauders

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Well that is reassuring and I like that idea. Not much lag im guessing?

What about cameras to buy? Also based on pictures of my house where would I place cameras and how many to get
Lag? I have next to no lag with my current setup. It's very much on-point. Before I had my EyeSurvs, I had two older Vivotek IP cameras that were 1 megapixel each. I used to run ZoneMinder, which is a Linux only free/open source CCTV platform. It has its issues that they're working out with the new development team, so things are slowly getting better, though I still had very, very noticeable lag with ZoneMinder. If I would open the door and let the automatic door-close-arm-actuator-thing slowly pull the door shut, it'd be a solid 5 seconds from when I heard the door shut vs when I *saw* the door shut within ZoneMinder. When I switched over to Bluecherry, it was night and day and significantly more accurate. I'm sure most others, Blue Iris included, run more efficiently than the experience I had a while back with ZoneMinder, though that's mostly an optimistic assumption on my part as I haven't used dozens of PC-NVR applications.

With cameras to buy... I'm not sure. I'd personally look over Nelly's site and see if anything jumps out at you. I hesitate to recommend anything else as I haven't purchased cameras from many other sources. (sorry, I just don't feel good about recommending something I haven't personally experienced). Others may be able to give you more insight there, I'm sure.

The cameras themselves are only half of the battle. There's more that goes into it, such as the lenses. Lenses can be different sizes, as noted when you see "3.6mm" or "4mm", etc. The smaller that number, the "more" the camera can see at the expense of less zoom/quality of objects further away. For example, if you had a camera with a 12mm lens, it's going to be pretty useless to see up-close items -- BUT you'll be able to see your shed in the very back of your large back yard with ease during the day (night mode will be dependent upon adequate lighting at that distance). With where and how I positioned my cameras, my 3.6mm lens in each of my cameras seems to work very well, but it's common for folks to take the lens into consideration, as you'll want the lens to work with you (not against you), so considering the size does frequently come into play.

Do you have a satellite/birds eye view of your house? If you could post a screenshot from google maps so we can get a better feel for your yard, distance, layout of the house, etc, it might be easier from the top-on-down angle.
 

TheWAFA

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Q™

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How did you have a break-in with a Doberman around? Was the Doberman present when the beak-in occurred?
 

Q™

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OK bro...you got a good dog, and that's your most important asset. I've got the answer for you. No need to research any further. Just do what I say...

1) Do what Fenderman tells you to do

2) After installing your Blue Iris system, set up BI to do motion alerts

3) Set up an alert receptor on Miss Satan's collar (any of the many geeks here will be able to tell you how to do this..they will enjoy the technical challenge)

4) Teach your pooch to go B E R S E R K when she is alerted by BI

5) You may be able to have different cameras send different alerts and teach your doggie to move to the specific camera area which has sent the alert

6) Sit back in your Barco Lounger with a Mai Tai and watch the hi-jinks ensue!

No no...no need to thank me...we're all here to help!

dog03.gif
 

TheWAFA

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That is quite funny but on a serious Note :)

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- - - Updated - - -

That was suggested but out of budget
 

Q™

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It's actually quite feasible.

And you can do a lot more than the system you listed above...for a lot less. What is your budget?
 
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