Not worth the time or trouble.

Discussion in 'ZoneMinder' started by hmjgriffon, Apr 11, 2014.

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  1. pixel

    pixel n3wb

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    With opensource volunteer build software you can't really complain to much. You try it out -- if it doesn't preform, check it out again next year when you have sometime.

    I have tried Zoneminder, I don't have the time or interest to deal with it.

    I love Linux but the same issues of open source are there, I need to get work done.. software is just a tool. I usually don't have time to work on my tools.
     
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  2. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    I run the best tool for the job, I prefer that tool to be linux, or similar but yeah, I had to try and set up my own email server just to send myself alerts from zoneminder. I think because of blue iris nobody sees a need to try and make a good free nvr software, I mean BI is $60, ridiculously cheap, the only reason not to use it is if you are some kind of open source linux zealot and you are happy with how hardware NVR's work. I tried the demo of BI and was immediately sold, I am interested in your project though, perhaps I will try it in a virtual machine.
     
  3. jasauders

    jasauders Getting the hang of it

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    ZoneMinder is a tool I love, but I speak from a "spiritual" point of view. Despite my earlier positive post ZM's shortcomings eventually caught up with me. Love what they're doing, love why they're doing it, but yeah -- it takes a mammoth machine under the current architecture to even get mediocre features out of it. Given I work in IT, I can handle that, but what I had trouble with was the random issues where ZM would just kind of "stop" without warning. I grew untrustworthy of it since I want my VMS to run without issue for obvious reasons. The developers are doing a great job though. ZM has had a tremendous amount of improvement following the current team's takeover, but it's an uphill battle. They'll get there. I have no doubt. But right now, I mirror a lot of your stance too... just need it to work.

    I'm kind of in the same boat as I prefer using Linux as well. After my ZoneMinder honeymoon ended I found Bluecherry, which feels light years ahead in some ways (not to mention I didn't have to set up an email server for notifications :p). I didn't mind Blue Iris when I used it, but from a management standpoint I really wanted a Linux base. It's good to have options though. Not everybody falls into the same category.
     
  4. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    Yeah see, I just want stuff to work, if it will do what I want easily on windows, linux, BSD, I don't care. I've been running blue iris on windows 8.1 on 2 different machines for a few years now. I never have one issue. No management problems. Rock solid. I typically find my personal windows installs never have any issues, maybe I've just been running windows long enough that I know exactly how to use and manage it I dunno. Having a gui doesn't bother me, in 2017 with a modern cpu and everything there is plenty of resources to have a gui, it's not 1985 and I'm not trying to run it on a raspberry pi. Right now windows with BI makes a great NVR system for me and ubuntu mate makes a great daily driver laptop for me. OpenBSD on my firewall at home, on and on. If it works well and isn't a huge pain in my ass, I'll run it. Maybe I've just become a curmudgeon after so many years working with computers. It's just not worth banging your head on the wall because you want to do something in linux instead of windows, or because there is some bug you won't be able to do anything about until the dev fixes it. I will flip flop OS's, distros, whatever, to do what I want to do. Just the right tool for the job attitude I have lol.
     
  5. jasauders

    jasauders Getting the hang of it

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    Yeah, I'm a fan of a headless setup myself. ZM can accommodate a headless setup with a web UI, but we've already established the downfalls in the other department there. Bluecherry has a few different combinations possible; with gui, without gui, etc., given it works in both areas and has a server+client component and you can still mix both server and client together.

    i.e., I can take Ubuntu (with gui) and install BC server+client, giving me its server capabilities + all the review and playback I want at that physical box. This is nice if you work with someone who simply wants "a box to do all this work and I'll go back to this box if I need to review things." I can also take Ubuntu Server (no gui), install BC server, and let all laptops/desktops/client systems and whatnot manage/review it from the BC client from the couch, etc. If you think about that, there's a number of possibilities there, just from the standpoint of being able to install it on desktop Ubuntu or headless Ubuntu, and also being able to mix and match. I could install server+client on this box OR server over here, client over there, etc. I much preferred that over having to use alternative methods to 'remote in', a la RDP, etc.

    That's a good attitude to have. With that attitude it'll ensure that no matter what platform the tool is on, you'll have access to it. In a situation where choice is available my preferences still guide me in a specific direction. I'm a busy guy, so I like things to be as "set it and forget it" as possible. If the software makes me lazy, the software is doing its job. :p
     
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  6. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    I want to know what settings user normally change in Blue IRIS or their cameras to work it smoothly as it is spiking my laptop CPU too much. I understand it is not good to have a laptop for this ( I am using thinkpad x230 with 3rd gen dual core i5 2.6 Ghz with 8 GB RAM and 180 GS SSD).
    Now, when I am testing, laptop is always on 80-90% CPU with continuous recording with trigger. motion detection takes a lot of CPU. Disabling motion detection, the CPU sits at 50-60 %. In total the video I watch on laptop screen is not that smooth. Normally delayed by 3-4 seconds. I am not accessing blue iris for now remotely from other device.
    5 Cameras I am using are: DS-2CD2342WD-I . One more which I have not connected atm is 2CD3325. I changed the settings on camera:
    1. Resolution down to 1920* 1080 p
    2. FPS down to 12
    Rest all standard.
    On Blue IRIS:
    1. continuous recording direct to disk.
    2. hardware decoding to default
    3. no date time stamp to reduce encoding by blue iris.

    I wonder how come the Hikvision NVR with less processor power can support 8 or even 16 cameras where as a 3rd gen i5 laptop cant.

    Any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2017
  7. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Are you running the demo? Direct to disk does not work in the demo...
    Are you viewing the laptop on the screen or using remote viewing software?
    How many cameras?
    You have to enable Hardware acceleration in blue iris options> cameras, then restart...
     
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  8. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    Thanks for the reply fenderman. Edited the post to reflect the cameras.
    - I have purchased Blue IRIS, so it is not demo.
    - Cameras = 6 in total. Fow now, I have connected 5 of them.
    - Hardware acceleration= Is it Hardware decoding in Camera properties first page. It is set to default.
    - I am viewing it in Laptop screen.

    See the screenshot here:
    BlueIris 7 Second Freezes in Recordings
    I have similar settings except the make is Hikvision and model 2cdXXX.
     
  9. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    read again..hardware acceleration is set in the blue iris options>cameras..
    Then the default will apply and you can adjust for individual cameras...
    What is the exact processor model of your laptop?
     
  10. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Post your actual camera settings both in the camera and blue iris config.
     
  11. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    I did read it and thats why asked: Hardware acceleration= Is it Hardware decoding
    as I am not in front of my laptop now. I will check the settings and report back.
    - Laptop i5 processor is : i5 3320M , 2.6 Ghz.
    More to come.
     
  12. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    Will do once I am home.
     
  13. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    the setting in the camera properties allows you to adjust the cameras individually...you should set hardware acceleration to h.264 yes in blue iris options..do not use vpp..
    That processor is weak but can handle your cameras at 1080p as you have them set..make sure you have windows set to high performance and there is nothing throttling the cpu
     
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  14. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    I will check that. I remember I left the video setting as Blue IRIS video and save direct to disk.
     
  15. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    I went to the camera settings and hardware decoding was not set. I have enabled it for now and processor count is down a bit now. Currently doing 45-60 %
     
  16. misterfredsr

    misterfredsr Young grasshopper

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    Thanks for that tip fenderman, set windows to high performance. It made a big difference.
     
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  17. Gaggi

    Gaggi n3wb

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    I tested it for couple of hours yesterday and this change did a massive improvement. So a big thanks to you fenderman.
    I was already on high performance and all settings were bare minimum. So I was scratching my head why a 3rd gen i5 cant take on 6 cameras. I was thinking earlier that I have already done this setting in individual cameras. Blue IRIS should make these changes default.

    Cheers
    G.
     
  18. afddwfadwfadwf

    afddwfadwfadwf Young grasshopper

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    support/documentation for zoneminder is terrible... It is quite old architecture, with most features works sometimes and mainly tested with garbage cameras (Foscam).. Not a fan of Blue Iris either because it runs on Windows...
     
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  19. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    be a best tool for the job type, do I love windows? not really, do I love blue iris? yep, so who cares what it runs on, my windows installs are always rock solid anyways. just don't look at pr0n and surf to the shady parts of the internet and you'll be fine, so that when you're in linux.
     
  20. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Windows is fantastic and works really well to host blue Iris... As far as a camera limit blue iris is a $60 piece of software... You are comparing it to VMS packages that charge 50 to $150 per camera and Licensing fees..Kinda silly.. it is not geared toward a corporate environment requiring more than 64 cameras...
    Has far as hard drive space you must be joking...its 2017 you can pick a 128gb ssd for peanuts or install windows on the storage drive...
    A server machine absolutley needs a gui..almost all of my BI installs use the server to display BI on a monitor for viewing and making adjustments.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  21. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    my windows is rock solid just as solid as my linux installs, maybe you don't know how to manage it lol. as for 64 cams, you'd never be able to run near that many 2mp cams anyways unless you bought some ridiculous server hardware.
     
  22. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    You are misinformed. I routinely review the video on BI machines...there is no lag no "blurry frame".. The extra stuff doesnt hurt you in any way. Windows machines for the typical installation are cheap and very efficient.
    "personally would feel uncomfortable interfacing with the machine that is doing the work just to save processing power. A little lag can mean the difference between a clear frame and blurry frame."
    That statement makes ZERO sense.
    You imply that other paid vms have no limits..that is not the case...for example, exacq has a 16 camera limit for its start edition and a 64(analong)/128(ip) camera limit for its professional and enterprise editions.
    Again BI is not intended for use with that many cams...high school with 90 cams is the same as corporate..semantics
     
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  23. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    No that is not the case...blue iris is simply less efficient than other vms...you can run many more cameras if you use something like exacq or avigilon...you are very misinformed about vms and windows...and their capabilities.
     
  24. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Yes, so explain why exacq can handle many more cams than BI on the same system...its sad when folks misrepresent their capabilities..you are simply out of your league. You are not versed in VMS software.
     
  25. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    lemee know when shinobi has the amount and level of features and capabilities that blue iris has and I will check it out. :)
     
  26. moeiscool

    moeiscool n3wb

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    Because of better engineering? You'd think that bit would be obvious LOL. IN MY EXPERIENCE I have found newer versions of ffmpeg perform with less overhead. So when you found the versions of ffmpeg in all the programs you are versed in, you should have been able to piece that simple bit of information together.

    You say I'm out of my league and not versed when you were the one who went off on tangent. I never mentioned competitors. You did. I just said using CCTV on windows isn't as good as doing it on Linux. It seems you are getting very defensive for no reason. If you think blue iris is the best, it isn't. If you think all the programs you know are the only ones people should use, you're wrong.
     
  27. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    EXACTLY. So your statement that "you only need a crazy server for the reason I have to keep repeating. windows wastes processing cycles for things you probably don't even use." is FALSE since you dont need a crazy server for exacq.
    I never said blue iris is the best. I often recommend other options that you are simply unaware of... However blue iris is the BEST at this price point. No doubt.
    Your little garbage software package is a joke at this point..there is always some joker who thinks that can do it better...go ahead..it would be great if we can all get a superior product for free.
     
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  28. fenderman

    fenderman Staff Member

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    Great, leave.
     
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  29. hmjgriffon

    hmjgriffon Known around here

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    Who cares when you started it? You are claiming running IP cameras on windows is crap and best on linux, then point to a software that you wrote that doesn't hold a candle to blue iris, or anything else out there. A lot of the big name software run on linux yes, are they best? Not for home use, I don't want to run a giant server in my house, I also don't want to pay a license fee for every camera I have.
     
  30. ThomasPI

    ThomasPI Young grasshopper

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    Agreed, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.