Oldie but Newbie

[Rich Payne]

I'm a retired video and computer professional with over 35 years of experience in broadcast and corporate video and IT - but now that I'm trying to put in a security system for my home in 2018, I feel like a novice! These little cameras and NVRs and POE and such are a new dialect to this old man, and I need help....

From what I can discern at this point, I need an 8-channel system... with the following cameras:
1. Front door - wireless PTZ (power available) - to see entire front yard - dome type? Maybe 5MP with good zoom
2-3. Back door (2) - POE - PTZ (to see back yard) - bullet type? Don't care - dome or bullet as long as it has remote PTZ
4-5. Side gables (2) - POE - could be bullet, PTZ would be a luxury
6-7. Pool house (2) - wireless (power available) - to see remote parts of yard
8. House cam (1) - just a camera to move around inside the house to watch grandkids, etc. I have a wireless Cloud IP Camera that I can use for this, assuming I can find a suitable NVR to hook it up to.

I have seen and researched tons of systems online, and my biggest question is, "What is compatible with what?" I have been to several vendor websites and I've seen hundreds of products online, but no one manufacturer seems to have "everything" that I need. I see these 6 and 8 camera systems, but they don't have the right combinations of things. So, for example, if I buy a 4 or 6 camera system that does "most" of what I need, how can I find the right "extra" cameras to add to my system?

Back in the good ole days in the corporate video world, I knew that every manufacturer always wanted me to think that I needed to go "all Sony" or "all Hitachi", but in reality I knew that many different brands could be mixed and matched depending upon my needs and budget. I have a sneaking suspicion this may be true in the IPV world, too, but I'm sure there are some "guardrails" that I need to know about before I do something stupid.

I have downloaded several PDFs from the Forums and will be doing my homework tonight, but any advice you young whipper-snappers could give me (or old cogers for that matter), I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[TonyR]

Welcome to IPCT!

You have read the Wiki up at the top of this page in the blue bar, with special attention to The Cliff Notes, right?

Some suggestions and if you get overwhelmed by all the info, just remember these points:

• Do not use wireless (Wi-Fi) for cameras or NVR; only use CAT-5e or 6 solid copper cable, no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum).
• Where you have power but cannot string CAT cable, consider PLA's (Power Line Adapters).
• Do not use a cloud solution or P2P (Peer to Peer) where you scan a QR code with your smartphone or tablet.
• Bullet cameras outdoors attract spiders and their webs because of the ring of IR LED's around the lens, a turret design is much better.
• Dome cameras also usually have issues outdoors with dust, fog, etc.
• You listed a lot of PTZ cams; do you plan on sitting there moving the cams around? I think a properly placed varifocal turret cam in most locations will save you LOTS of money and serve your needs, don't you think so? PTZ's are great but are generally applied sparingly and for certain applications. But it's certainly your install and your money.
• Purchase cameras and NVR that are POE (Power Over Ethernet) for dependability, less clutter (no wall wart power supplies) and more secure (easier to secure and hide cables).
• Stick with known brands such as discussed in the Cliff Notes.

 

[Rich Payne]

Welcome to IPCT!

You have read the Wiki up at the top of this page in the blue bar, with special attention to The Cliff Notes, right?

Some suggestions and if you get overwhelmed by all the info, just remember these points:

• Do not use wireless (Wi-Fi) for cameras or NVR; only use CAT-5e or 6 solid copper cable, no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum).
• Where you have power but cannot string CAT cable, consider PLA's (Power Line Adapters).
• Do not use a cloud solution or P2P (Peer to Peer) where you scan a QR code with your smartphone or tablet.
• Bullet cameras outdoors attract spiders and their webs because of the ring of IR LED's around the lens, a turret design is much better.
• Dome cameras also usually have issues outdoors with dust, fog, etc.
• You listed a lot of PTZ cams; do you plan on sitting there moving the cams around? I think a properly placed varifocal turret cam in most locations will save you LOTS of money and serve your needs, don't you think so? PTZ's are great but are generally applied sparingly and for certain applications. But it's certainly your install and your money.
• Purchase cameras and NVR that are POE (Power Over Ethernet) for dependability, less clutter (no wall wart power supplies) and more secure (easier to secure and hide cables).
• Stick with known brands such as discussed in the Cliff Notes.

Thanks, Tony - good info! But could you clarify a few things? I'm sorry I haven't read everything yet - still working on it.
1. I know wireless is not ideal - but why "never"? I have one camera now that seems acceptable... and I have one particular spot that's a real bear.
2. If not a bullet or dome camera, then would a turret be the best alternative "anywhere" outside? Under eave, on side of building, etc?
3. I have thought-out the layout, and no - I'm not going to play with the cameras all the time... lol... but my wife certainly might. The PTZs will stay fixed most of the time, and will be located at corners in order to cover two directions (sides); I just want the option of being able to look around on occasion so she feels safe... I'm in LE and the turds know how to get out of line-of-sight, so why humor them?
4. What is the deal with the QR code?
I am reading the Cliff Notes now, so bear with me...

 

[TonyR]

1. I know wireless is not ideal - but why "never"? I have one camera now that seems acceptable... and I have one particular spot that's a real bear.
2. If not a bullet or dome camera, then would a turret be the best alternative "anywhere" outside? Under eave, on side of building, etc?
3. I have thought-out the layout, and no - I'm not going to play with the cameras all the time... lol... but my wife certainly might. The PTZs will stay fixed most of the time, and will be located at corners in order to cover two directions (sides); I just want the option of being able to look around on occasion so she feels safe... I'm in LE and the turds know how to get out of line-of-sight, so why humor them?
4. What is the deal with the QR code?

1. Maybe "never' is a bit harsh...how about "only if there are no other means". This is because the airwaves are FLOODED with 2.4GHz signals (standard Wi-Fi), enough to disrupt these cams if wireless...and even 720p cams at 10 FPS take up some bandwidth, imagine several wireless cams and then someone gets on their tablet and begins streaming Netflix....one of your "security" cams may be rendered NOT so useful. The Power Line Adapters may be a viable, more reliable alternative in those areas where you absolutely, positively can't run CAT-5e or 6 but have a handy power outlet. There was a time if the outlet near the cam and the outlet at the other end at router or switch were not on the same leg (same side of the transformer in a 120/240VAC, 3 wire, single phase service) that the PLA's would not work but in the last few years inroads have been made and the brand name units "couple" across the 2 opposing legs well enough for the PLA to work.
2. Yes. Anywhere. But under eave or soffit is best, out of direct sunlight and rain...keeps them cleaner and "younger" longer. Insure the cam's pigtail and especially the Ethernet connector and/or power connector is out of the elements.
3. Happy Wife = Happy Life...I'm with you, man.
4. That is an easy way to enter a UID (Unique ID) that will be used for your cam to upload to an off-shore server then downloaded to you to view. Known as P2P (Point-to-Point), it's easier than port forwarding in your router for remote viewing (outside your LAN) but you are at the mercy of their server (future expense, possible security breaches, who knows) ...not to mention if your upload speed is less than 2MB/s up it will suck anyway. It's best to stream directly to an NVR or a PC with VMS software such as Blue Iris.

 

[Rich Payne]

1. Maybe "never' is a bit harsh...how about "only if there are no other means". This is because the airwaves are FLOODED with 2.4GHz signals (standard Wi-Fi), enough to disrupt these cams if wireless...and even 720p cams at 10 FPS take up some bandwidth, imagine several wireless cams and then someone gets on their tablet and begins streaming Netflix....one of your "security" cams may be rendered NOT so useful. The Power Line Adapters may be a viable, more reliable alternative in those areas where you absolutely, positively can't run CAT-5e or 6 but have a handy power outlet. There was a time if the outlet near the cam and the outlet at the other end at router or switch were not on the same leg (same side of the transformer in a 120/240VAC, 3 wire, single phase service) that the PLA's would not work but in the last few years inroads have been made and the brand name units "couple" across the 2 opposing legs well enough for the PLA to work.
2. Yes. Anywhere. But under eave or soffit is best, out of direct sunlight and rain...keeps them cleaner and "younger" longer. Insure the cam's pigtail and especially the Ethernet connector and/or power connector is out of the elements.
3. Happy Wife = Happy Life...I'm with you, man.
4. That is an easy way to enter a UID (Unique ID) that will be used for your cam to upload to an off-shore server then downloaded to you to view. Known as P2P (Point-to-Point), it's easier than port forwarding in your router for remote viewing (outside your LAN) but you are at the mercy of their server (future expense, possible security breaches, who knows) ...not to mention if your upload speed is less than 2MB/s up it will suck anyway. It's best to stream directly to an NVR or a PC with VMS software such as Blue Iris.

Understood!

OK, I’ve spent several hours reading through the WIKI and reviewing stuff in the forums… now I know just enough to be dangerous, but at least it’s sinking in a bit.

I realize this IPV arena - as with much technology today - can be “overwhelming”, especially if one tries to hyper-analyze every aspect of it. While I am a person who likes to understand everything that I can, I learned a long time ago that at some point I’ve just got to “do something”, because I will never get to the point where I am completely comfortable and have zero chance of failure.

In reading all of this material and posts, it's obvious that at some times, “this contradicts that” because of the context. For example, many caveats about analog cameras may be contradicted by newer digital technology, etc. So I will try not to make too many assumptions based on my past experience.

Here are some things that still confuse me:
1) Brands - there seems to be a lot of support (usage) of Dahua products, but there are at least 6 other brands with forums on your site. Is there any “clear leader” here, or is it so competitive that no one brand rises to the top?
2) Like Panasonic and JVC, are some of the brands part of the same parent company, i.e. their products are readily interchangeable?
3) Any specific brands I should avoid (Lorex, Onwote, Reolink, Amcrest, etc.)?
4) If I settle on a brand or two, is there a “best source” for these items (website), or do I just find the best deal I can get on Amazon or eBay?
5) With Dahua, for example, I really like their turret cameras - but I don’t see one with audio, and I really need that for my front door area. Any alternatives? (like Lorex?)
6) I’ve checked out the Power Line Adapters, and while I used something similar with little success years ago, they really seem to have improved them. So if they are “this good”, it should work down at the poolhouse But are these things to be hooked up to my NVR, or to my regular router?
7) In turn, if the PLA can carry the POE signal needed for each camera, why would I not put one of these at the power outlet for every camera that has a convenient outlet nearby, and then run nothing but a 2-foot Cat6 cables to the camera? This could save me a whole lot of cable runs…. what am I missing here?
8) BTW - I do plan to use a POE NVR - I do not want to fiddle with a PC based package at this point, because if I bring another computer into our bedroom my wife will have a cow, and we don’t need a cow, especially in here. Is there clearly a “great” NVR or two that I should consider?
9) Other than “cost” - is there any compelling reason not to use a PTZ camera anywhere that I think I might want to occasionally change the view?
10) Final question (this post) - the info about the night vision capabilities of the 1P, 2P, 3P and 4P cameras is confusing. Here they say “IR is great”, and over there they say, “IR attracts bugs, dust, etc. - leave it turned off.” Here they say, “1MP has the best night vision,” but all the ads say, “4MP is the way to go.” HUH?

And BTW, you haven’t revealed yet if you’re Crimson or Blue/Orange… That’s just an observation… not a question. THANKS!

 

[fenderman]

read it again. Most dahua turrets DO have audio. Lorex is not an alternative to dahua, LOREX IS dahua rebranded. Yes the compelling reason not to use ptz, is that you will have it pointed in the wrong direction when an event happens. You will also have to spend much more for the same image quality. Better of with two fixed cameras. Pay someone to run the cable you cant. Will be cheaper and neater in the long run.

 

[TonyR]

1) Dahua and Hikvision
2) See OEM brands for Dahua and Hikvision at end of this post (easier to post image than list them).
3) Avoid Reolink and Huisun / Imporx; many negative reports on this forum.
4) Dahua: Empire Technology. See forum vendors ;Hikvision: See forum vendors
5) There are Dahua turrets with audio
6) To NVR
7) Only data can be passed over the power lines. There is a specfic PLA that passes data and provides POE+ at the point it is plugged into the outlet near the camera (has a power supply there). It's a Trendnet TPL-331EP.
8) I don't use a NVR, I use Blue Iris on a PC so I'm not your guy...but if you buy Dahua cams, best to get Dahua NVR or if you get Hikvision Cams, use Hikvision NVR.
9) Depending on the model, size and mounting could be a factor.
10) IR is necessary under certain conditions and depends on ambient lighting, including artificial, and camera sensor sensitivity. It's best to let the camera control the IR. Choose a turret style cam and the spiders and bugs are less likely to cause problems like they do with bullets and domes. Also, there are external IR light sources available that can be located away from the camera and provide greater coverage.
Don't get worked up over megapixels. A 2MP Dahua with a Starlight (Sony Starvis) sensor will yield a better image in low light conditions than most other higher pixel count cameras.

Roll Tide!

 

[Rich Payne]

Awesome - excellent info! Have a blessed Thanksgiving, Bama Boy... as for me, it's GO DAWGS! (see you in a few weeks!)