Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?

ljw2k

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A total of 37,470 people in England have died with a Covid+ test

In October 2018 41,466 people died

In October 2019 43,257 people died

In October 2020, 43,265 people died

96% had a pre-existing health condition
54% were over 80yrs old.
92% were over 60

The total number of people under 60 with no underlying health problems who died with Covid this year: 339
 

Frankenscript

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A total of 37,470 people in England have died with a Covid+ test

In October 2018 41,466 people died

In October 2019 43,257 people died

In October 2020, 43,265 people died

96% had a pre-existing health condition
54% were over 80yrs old.
92% were over 60

The total number of people under 60 with no underlying health problems who died with Covid this year: 339
Please link your source. I believe that the analysis above doesn't take into account that the most common commodities listed along with COVID-19 on death certificates are actually CAUSED BY COVID-19. This creates a false perception that most people who died had a serious pre-existing condition.
 

tigerwillow1

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On the subject of false perceptions:
"Kelly Loeffler, a Republican who is in runoff on Jan. 5 to retain her appointed U.S. Senate seat in Georgia, is among the more than 12 million Americans to initially test positive for coronavirus but another test was inconclusive and the PCR results were retested overnight and came back negative. "

Vaccine may reach states by mid-December; Sen. Loeffler re-tests negative

I wonder how many of the 12 million are still listed as active cases? I know the Oregon rules specifically state that when a followup test says negative, a person is still carried as a presumptive case.
 

Frankenscript

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Active cases is not a terribly useful metric because it requires a lot of follow-up to maintain. Cases overall is a useful one because it is a leading indicator ... while many cases are relatively harmless, many are not, and ICU usage tends to follow within a couple weeks of a case spike. Deaths spike a few weeks after that.

Here is Indiana's hospital usage chart; this is the worst it has been all year:

1606139788248.png

It is easy to look at this and say fine, there's still 23% ICU availability, no problem... but remember COVID-19 ICU usage doubles proportionately to the rise in cases a few weeks back. So, if I calculate how many more cases we have (rolling average) today versus 2 weeks ago, I can project that the ICU usage 2 weeks from now will rise by that same factor, as an approximation.

1606139997234.png


Two weeks ago we were at about half as many new cases per day, so in two weeks we can estimate we will need approximately double the ICU beds for COVID-19 compared to what we use today. We don't have that many beds; our system will be overwhelmed and have to stop providing routine services, and since many hospitals have already maxed that out, Indiana looks to be in a world of hurt on the way.

COVID-19 Deaths have already hit the highest all year here:

1606140205171.png
We are at just over 5000 deaths here, closer to 5300 if you count probably COVID-19 deaths, most of which occurred before widespread testing was available. Most deaths are in the elderly but the demographic is gradually changing now that most CASES are in younger folks.

Bottom line: we opened up too much in the late summer/early fall and are now paying a grim price. It was a blatant attempt at promoting normalcy in the run-up to the election; our governor needs to be held accountable. Unfortunately in this deep red state, there's little chance of that. We have republican super-majorities at the state level and all major posts are held by republicans, including the management of these metrics, so please don't suggest they are some liberal conspiracy.
 

bigredfish

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Ahem....


“I am employed by a university-based medical center that is a referral center for the West Texas region. My colleagues include resident physicians and faculty physicians who work with covid patients on a daily basis. I have asked a number of my colleagues whether they will be first in line for the new vaccine. I have yet to hear any of my colleagues respond affirmatively. The reasons for hesitancy are that the uncertainties about safety exceed what they perceive to be a small benefit. In other words, my colleagues would prefer to take their chances with covid rather than beta test the vaccine. Many of my colleagues want to see the safety data after a year of use before getting vaccinated; these colleagues are concerned about possible autoimmune side effects that may not appear for months after vaccination.“
 

bigredfish

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Active cases is not a terribly useful metric because it requires a lot of follow-up to maintain. Cases overall is a useful one because it is a leading indicator ... while many cases are relatively harmless, many are not, and ICU usage tends to follow within a couple weeks of a case spike. Deaths spike a few weeks after that.

Here is Indiana's hospital usage chart; this is the worst it has been all year:

View attachment 75504

It is easy to look at this and say fine, there's still 23% ICU availability, no problem... but remember COVID-19 ICU usage doubles proportionately to the rise in cases a few weeks back. So, if I calculate how many more cases we have (rolling average) today versus 2 weeks ago, I can project that the ICU usage 2 weeks from now will rise by that same factor, as an approximation.

View attachment 75505


Two weeks ago we were at about half as many new cases per day, so in two weeks we can estimate we will need approximately double the ICU beds for COVID-19 compared to what we use today. We don't have that many beds; our system will be overwhelmed and have to stop providing routine services, and since many hospitals have already maxed that out, Indiana looks to be in a world of hurt on the way.

COVID-19 Deaths have already hit the highest all year here:

View attachment 75506
We are at just over 5000 deaths here, closer to 5300 if you count probably COVID-19 deaths, most of which occurred before widespread testing was available. Most deaths are in the elderly but the demographic is gradually changing now that most CASES are in younger folks.

Bottom line: we opened up too much in the late summer/early fall and are now paying a grim price. It was a blatant attempt at promoting normalcy in the run-up to the election; our governor needs to be held accountable. Unfortunately in this deep red state, there's little chance of that. We have republican super-majorities at the state level and all major posts are held by republicans, including the management of these metrics, so please don't suggest they are some liberal conspiracy.

Ahem....

 

Frankenscript

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You cite an obviously flawed analysis that JHU has pulled... Why?

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bigredfish

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You cite an obviously flawed analysis that JHU has pulled... Why?

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Obviously flawed because it doesn’t fit your narrative? Ha
For the same reason I dont discount everything that gets censored on YouTubeTwatterBookfaceNBCCNN

I don’t trust the folks playing with the numbers...

I didn’t weigh in on the accuracy, I don’t know. But lots of things seem to get “pulled” or censored or discredited that don’t fit the narrative and the folks preaching the narrative seem to get caught in their own hypocrisy just about daily anymore...
 

tigerwillow1

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You cite an obviously flawed analysis that JHU has pulled... Why?
Or was it a good analysis that was pulled because it doesn't fit the political narrative? The only answer I have is I don't trust much of what we're told. If the left wasn't continuously trying to use covid-19 as a weapon against Trump I might be more open to believing what we're told.
 

David L

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Another business burned by this Pandemic :(


I hate seeing businesses lose money, but what really upsets me is all the workers suffering through all this nonsense...
 

Frankenscript

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Obviously flawed because it doesn’t fit your narrative? Ha
For the same reason I dont discount everything that gets censored on YouTubeTwatterBookfaceNBCCNN

I don’t trust the folks playing with the numbers...

I didn’t weigh in on the accuracy, I don’t know. But lots of things seem to get “pulled” or censored or discredited that don’t fit the narrative and the folks preaching the narrative seem to get caught in their own hypocrisy just about daily anymore...
@bigredfish, just read the analysis.

I've read the original at archive.org and the AIER review. Both are critically flawed. For example:

"“These data analyses suggest that in contrast to most people’s assumptions, the number of deaths by COVID-19 is not alarming. In fact, it has relatively no effect on deaths in the United States.” "

Uh... wrong. In fact, it's disproved in the chart that follows just below that statement.

1606530004917.png

Note it shows the difference between most recent all causes peak (two years ago, just shy of 70k), and the April 2020 COVID-19-induced peak, saying that's 11,292. I'm sorry, but There's a significant difference between peaks at about 60k (with two years ago being a particularly bad year) and close to 80k in APRIL 2020. The text doesn't point out clearly that the difference shown of 11,292 is a WEEKLY number, as mostly the article talks about the total up to publishing of over 260k deaths so far this year:

"The spikes in deaths in 2020 are consistent with historical trends, only topping 2018 by 11,292 deaths. There have been over 262,000 deaths attributed to Covid-19 in the United States, yet total deaths have not increased in any alarming capacity; they have only mirrored existing trends. "

This is misleading at best. But it is...

Wrong! the COVID-19 spike (show separately in puke orange color) is DRAMATICALLY bigger than the flu and pneumonia seasonal spike shown and nowhere else does the graph have in a single year the two-lobed double spike (April and again in summer, with a third not yet shown... but when this paper gets revised presumably it will be there).

Also, they created a slope of +908 deaths (per week) per year based on six years of data; there aren't enough data points in this slope to be meaningful. The 2017-2018 flu season was relatively bad and that contributed to a spike that year; if it weren't for that spike the trend (based on the other 5 years) would actually be flat, more or less. It would be much better to give it at least 10 years worth of data (15-20 would be better) before interpolating a rising (or shrinking) baseline; over such scales factoring in population growth would probably make sense too.

Any yutz can look at the data and see this year has been awful. Also, the AIER graph above isn't the same one in the JHU article, at least from what I can see in the archive.org copy (though, they discuss a video, maybe it's from that). The original JHU article is a bit murky as to other causes of death... lots of causes of death actually did go down during the lockdowns...

Bottom line, the original article looks pretty crappy to me (a microbiologist by training with ~12 peer reviewed publications to my name), and the AEIR article jumps to patently false, easily disproven conclusions.
 
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