Plane down in DC
- Thread starter bigredfish
- Start date
Yeah no doubt its a plane. But geesh the video makes it look like its moving along at 500+
Air traffic controller left work early before deadly DC plane crash
A single controller was left to handle the air traffic of planes and helicopters flying over the airspace when two people would typically be monitoring both flight paths
www.independent.co.uk
I continue to be aghast at what they do at DCA. Even if everybody is following the flight paths exactly, there's only about 200' of vertical separation between the helo route and the runway 33 short final. To me, an obvious accident waiting to happen. The press likes to call separations that are greater than 200' a "near miss", yet it's regular operation at DCA.
Sybertiger
Known around here
And no ill towards her but reports are she had a Biden White House connection.
Apparently a "social" advisor and heavily participated in "Pride" events
DEI
Apparently a "social" advisor and heavily participated in "Pride" events
DEI
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Data from the deadliest U.S. air accident in a generation show conflicting altitude readings
Preliminary data from the deadliest U.S. aviation accident in nearly 25 years showed conflicting readings about the altitudes of an airliner and Army helicopter when they collided near Reagan National Airport in Washington, killing everyone aboard both aircraft, investigators said Saturday...
"Data from the jet’s flight recorder showed its altitude as 325 feet (99 meters), plus or minus 25 feet (7.6 meters), when the crash happened Wednesday night, National Transportation Safety Board officials told reporters. Data in the control tower, though, showed the Black Hawk helicopter at 200 feet (61 meters) at the time.
The roughly 100-foot (30-meter) discrepancy has yet to be explained."
Say for argument these are the correctly reported altitude readings. I'm assuming they are based on air pressure, not from a radar altimeter. Say also that these readings represent the bottom of the wheels of each aircraft. What's the height of the helo? Maybe 30 feet? That leaves a 70 foot separation if the readings are correct. How the heck can that separation be risked in what sounds like a normal, common situation? TOO DAMN CLOSE! The 100 foot discrepancy doesn't mean squat. The required separation should be a thousand feet if not more. At the approach the jet is covering about 200 feet PER SECOND horizontally, and I'm guessing about 10 feet per second (600 feet per minute) vertically.
The roughly 100-foot (30-meter) discrepancy has yet to be explained."
Say for argument these are the correctly reported altitude readings. I'm assuming they are based on air pressure, not from a radar altimeter. Say also that these readings represent the bottom of the wheels of each aircraft. What's the height of the helo? Maybe 30 feet? That leaves a 70 foot separation if the readings are correct. How the heck can that separation be risked in what sounds like a normal, common situation? TOO DAMN CLOSE! The 100 foot discrepancy doesn't mean squat. The required separation should be a thousand feet if not more. At the approach the jet is covering about 200 feet PER SECOND horizontally, and I'm guessing about 10 feet per second (600 feet per minute) vertically.
Sybertiger
Known around here
Not saying it's true but it feels like a typical gubermint operation to get ahead of everything by looking for and "scrubbing" social media accounts or other places that may indicate DEI related activities...get their ducks in a row, etc. The "highly unusual" aspect of the release of the name of ALL occupants of the helo are awfully suspicious.
I know ADSB transmits pressure altitude, but what does ATC see on their displays?
I think I read TCAS uses both pressure and radar altitude.
24 hours prior TCAS avoided a mid air collision between a commercial flight and military helo.
I don't recall seeing the RA alerts on the fateful collision.
I think I read TCAS uses both pressure and radar altitude.
24 hours prior TCAS avoided a mid air collision between a commercial flight and military helo.
I don't recall seeing the RA alerts on the fateful collision.
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Sybertiger
Known around here
The ATC radar altitude display is corrected for local barometric pressure so should match what the cockpit altimeter says. With a little more research I've learned that TCAS does not issue RAs in an aircraft under 1000' radar altitude, so it would have been out-of-play in the DCA accident. It makes sense to not tell an aircraft close to the ground to dive. In the video you linked 2 posts above, plus others I've seen, there are so many CAs on the radar screen that the controllers might be conditioned to ignore them as background noise.
There are some good arguments that this accident was the helo pilot's fault, and others that it's the controller's fault, and also that it the fault of the controller staffing shortage. The more I think about it, these things might be contributing factors, but the real cause is allowing this traffic situation in the first place. It smacks of an accident waiting to happen. What to do? The military wants their short and convenient VIP flights. Congress wants their close-in airport. There have to be some major turf battles happening.
According the following analysis.
CRJ ~160kts, VH60 ~120kts, ~280kts closure. VH60 should have been pitched down as that speed, thus visual of the CRJ may have been obstructed by center console. Apparently there was an ATC CA ~20 second prior.
CRJ ~160kts, VH60 ~120kts, ~280kts closure. VH60 should have been pitched down as that speed, thus visual of the CRJ may have been obstructed by center console. Apparently there was an ATC CA ~20 second prior.
At 17:37 in the above video he states that TCAS and ADSB use the aircraft's altimeter pressure (QNH) setting. I believe this is 100% incorrect.
From VH60 CVR/FDR: "Verbal reaction" by the crew followed by a pitch up and sounds of impact 1 second later?
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Isn't that info from the CRJ's CVR? The one thing I noticed most is that the crash was exactly 30 seconds after they passed through 500' AGL, according to the automated voice alert.