POE IP camera connects on POE port but not on non-POE port with external power supply

[MattTX]

I hope that title makes sense, I've done some searching but wasn't able to find any posts with my current issue. I have 5 POE cameras but only 4 POE ports on my switch. The switch has one free non-POE port and I have a 12v power supply for the camera (Dahua 4431C-A) but I can't get it to work. I've tried using 4 different ethernet cables (including one crossover) and two different power supplies, the camera will turn on and the IR light clicks on and off but it just won't send any data through the non-POE port. I plugged it into one of the POE ports (without the external power supply) and the camera works fine, so I know the camera is setup correctly. And I've looked through the camera settings and I don't see anywhere that I need to tell it I'm not using POE, so I'm at a loss as to why it won't send any data.

I eventually plan to get a new switch with more POE ports but I'm not ready to do so, and I'm also just curious as to why it's not working on the non-POE port. Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[Mike A.]

Normally don't need to do anything on cam.

What switch?

 

[mat200]

I hope that title makes sense, I've done some searching but wasn't able to find any posts with my current issue. I have 5 POE cameras but only 4 POE ports on my switch. The switch has one free non-POE port and I have a 12v power supply for the camera (Dahua 4431C-A) but I can't get it to work. I've tried using 4 different ethernet cables (including one crossover) and two different power supplies, the camera will turn on and the IR light clicks on and off but it just won't send any data through the non-POE port. I plugged it into one of the POE ports (without the external power supply) and the camera works fine, so I know the camera is setup correctly. And I've looked through the camera settings and I don't see anywhere that I need to tell it I'm not using POE, so I'm at a loss as to why it won't send any data.

I eventually plan to get a new switch with more POE ports but I'm not ready to do so, and I'm also just curious as to why it's not working on the non-POE port. Any suggestions? Thanks!

HI @MattTX

Some smaller switches I have seen in the past included a uplink port ( an extra RJ45 port for connecting to the LAN ) .. some really old models had a dip switch on configure it ..

 

[wittaj]

Yep sounds like an uplink port.

Use the power supply and plug it into a POE port instead (these are designed not to send power if already powered) and I bet you will see data, which will confirm it is the uplink port you are plugging into and is behaving as intended.

 

[TonyR]

I hope that title makes sense, I've done some searching but wasn't able to find any posts with my current issue. I have 5 POE cameras but only 4 POE ports on my switch. The switch has one free non-POE port and I have a 12v power supply for the camera......

Maybe it's new math, but.....
Switch has 4 POE ports + 1 non-POE port = 5 ports total for 5 cams; so how would you connect the switch to your network?

 

[alastairstevenson]

Switch has 4 POE ports + 1 non-POE port = 5 ports total for 5 cams; so how would you connect the switch to your network?

My guess is it's an 8-port switch with 4 PoE ports, 4 normal ports, of which one is not in use.

 

[TonyR]

My guess is it's an 8-port switch with 4 PoE ports, 4 normal ports, of which one is not in use.

Ah...could be and you're likely right. I guess I do better with more complete info.
Having also some technical writing and plans & specs writing in my background I tend to think others are as meticulous and verbose as I am.

 

[wittaj]

Except for the part where the OP says "The switch has one free non-POE port", so I took it as a 5 port switch (4 POE and 1 uplink) and not a blended switch of POE and nonPOE.

 

[TonyR]

Except for the part where the OP says "The switch has one free non-POE port", so I took it as a 5 port switch (4 POE and 1 uplink) and not a blended switch of POE and nonPOE.

Same here...I guess we ALL will find out!
Maybe "...has one free non-POE port" means 1 not in use?

 

[wittaj]

Yep LOL - one of the reasons why we ask for specifics!

 

[TonyR]

Hey, @MattTX ...where you at, man....inquiring minds want to know!

 

[MattTX]

Thanks for all the responses! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I had some stuff come up yesterday. And sorry I wasn't specific about the switch, it's a TP-Link TL-SF1008P Rev 4 (8 ports), it isn't labeled as having a dedicated uplink port and I moved some things around and they worked in all the ports, so I don't think it's an uplink port issue. The specs for the switch make no mention of a dedicated uplink port, just says the ports are auto negotiating. One other bit of info is that I just upgraded to fiber internet so have a new router, which is part of why I'm moving things around. I've had my cameras (4 POE, 1 non-POE) and Blue Iris setup with minimal issues for many years and have had those cameras working fine since getting the new router as well (about 3 weeks). Then a few days ago I got a 6th camera (making it the 5th POE camera) which started the latest adventure.

In a nutshell, I think I just need to get a new switch sooner than later. Something I've wondered about before is if I'm over saturating it, it's only a 10/100 switch and has 5 cameras on it (3 @ 3.7mp, 1 @ 2.1mp, and 1 @ 1mp), plus my Blue Iris computer (HP Prodesk 600 G1), 3D printer, the router, and a Pi. The one issue I've had over the years with this setup is individual cameras cutting out from time to time, though it didn't happen too often and usually didn't last long, but that's what got me wondering if the switch might be at it's throughput limits (and this was before my most recent issue of adding a 6th camera to it). In case you're wondering why the math doesn't work, I have a 5 port switch on the other end of my house that is plugged into the 8 port switch, and the 3D printer, Pi, and a non-POE camera are plugged into the 5 port switch.

Getting back to the present, I've tried plugging the 5th POE camera into a few different non-POE ports and at one point the camera started working but it didn't last and a couple of my other cameras started cutting in and out. I tested using some store bought short cables and two DIY long cables and even put new ends on one of them (which I then confirmed working using a cable tester) and the camera still won't consistently send data. I also tested that long cable by connecting the HP computer to the switch and it worked, so I'm sure the cable isn't the issue.

So I guess the question now is could it be that the switch just can't keep up with the amount of data and it's turning off ports?

 

[wittaj]

That was my next suggestion and forgot to post it - depending on the cameras, you could be exceeding the capacity of the switch and that sounds like what is happening.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You don't mention resolution, frame and bit rates for the cameras. To put things into perspective, I'm running 20 cameras with a mix of 4MP and 2MP. All frame rates are at 15F/[s. Bit rates on the 4MP are 8192 and on the 2MP 4096. The network interface for those cameras is showing about 150Mb/ps and that includes a main stream and a sub stream from each camera. Unless you're running very high frame and bit rates I don't think you're saturating the switch with video, at least. I'd get everything else, other than cameras, off of that switch and get an eight, or sixteen, port gig switch for the regular network traffic.

Maybe post a sketch of the physical layout of your network.

 

[Teken]

Thanks for all the responses! Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I had some stuff come up yesterday. And sorry I wasn't specific about the switch, it's a TP-Link TL-SF1008P Rev 4 (8 ports), it isn't labeled as having a dedicated uplink port and I moved some things around and they worked in all the ports, so I don't think it's an uplink port issue. The specs for the switch make no mention of a dedicated uplink port, just says the ports are auto negotiating. One other bit of info is that I just upgraded to fiber internet so have a new router, which is part of why I'm moving things around. I've had my cameras (4 POE, 1 non-POE) and Blue Iris setup with minimal issues for many years and have had those cameras working fine since getting the new router as well (about 3 weeks). Then a few days ago I got a 6th camera (making it the 5th POE camera) which started the latest adventure.

In a nutshell, I think I just need to get a new switch sooner than later. Something I've wondered about before is if I'm over saturating it, it's only a 10/100 switch and has 5 cameras on it (3 @ 3.7mp, 1 @ 2.1mp, and 1 @ 1mp), plus my Blue Iris computer (HP Prodesk 600 G1), 3D printer, the router, and a Pi. The one issue I've had over the years with this setup is individual cameras cutting out from time to time, though it didn't happen too often and usually didn't last long, but that's what got me wondering if the switch might be at it's throughput limits (and this was before my most recent issue of adding a 6th camera to it). In case you're wondering why the math doesn't work, I have a 5 port switch on the other end of my house that is plugged into the 8 port switch, and the 3D printer, Pi, and a non-POE camera are plugged into the 5 port switch.

Getting back to the present, I've tried plugging the 5th POE camera into a few different non-POE ports and at one point the camera started working but it didn't last and a couple of my other cameras started cutting in and out. I tested using some store bought short cables and two DIY long cables and even put new ends on one of them (which I then confirmed working using a cable tester) and the camera still won't consistently send data. I also tested that long cable by connecting the HP computer to the switch and it worked, so I'm sure the cable isn't the issue.

So I guess the question now is could it be that the switch just can't keep up with the amount of data and it's turning off ports?

Easy to confirm just leave the new camera in place. Unplug one of the existing cameras and if video appears on the new (6th) camera bandwidth is your problem.

You can do the reverse to confirm whereby the only thing on the switch is the new (6th) camera. Than, add a single camera(s) to the switch until it craps out. The reason you do both (add on) vs removal test is to affirm and validate no flow vs existing data flow.

Good luck . . .

 

[MattTX]

Ok, I think I found the problem and of course it's none of the above. There appears to be a couple of slightly bent pins in the camera connector. The "6th" camera I've been dealing with is one I've had for a few years, the POE camera I just got went in its place. I hadn't really had any issues with the camera before (just very occasional cutouts) and was only replacing it because I got a starlight camera and I wanted to put the older one on the side of my house where I don't currently have a camera.

I was doing the test Teken suggested, plugged the 6th camera into a non-POE port then unplugged the first two POE cameras, and at first it wasn't working. I was using my long DIY cable so I switched to a shorter store bought cable and the camera started to work. I plugged the other cameras back in and everything kept working. I left it for a few minutes and everything looked good, so I grabbed the wire to unplug it but before getting it unplugged it stopped working. After doing the obligatory wire wiggle test I was able to get it to work again, so I unplugged it, grabbed my magnifier and a light and I can see one pin with a slight horizontal bend and another pin that is pressed down near the back more so than the others (like the spring or whatever it is that holds the pin up in the back is broken). I bent both pins back into position as best as I could and have had it plugged in for the past 30 minutes and everything is working. I don't have any female connectors so can't replace this one but at least at the moment it is working.

Just for good measure, three of the 3.7mp cameras are at 8192 (they are 4mp cameras but I'm not running them at full res), one 3.7mp at 6144, the 2mp is at 8192, and the 1mp is at 6144. All of them are running at 25fps on the mainstream and 20fps on the substream (the substreams are all about 1536).

And before finding the bent pins I did create a network map so for your viewing pleasure (note: this is before adding the 6th camera)...

 

[Teken]

Ok, I think I found the problem and of course it's none of the above. There appears to be a couple of slightly bent pins in the camera connector. The "6th" camera I've been dealing with is one I've had for a few years, the POE camera I just got went in its place. I hadn't really had any issues with the camera before (just very occasional cutouts) and was only replacing it because I got a starlight camera and I wanted to put the older one on the side of my house where I don't currently have a camera.

I was doing the test Teken suggested, plugged the 6th camera into a non-POE port then unplugged the first two POE cameras, and at first it wasn't working. I was using my long DIY cable so I switched to a shorter store bought cable and the camera started to work. I plugged the other cameras back in and everything kept working. I left it for a few minutes and everything looked good, so I grabbed the wire to unplug it but before getting it unplugged it stopped working. After doing the obligatory wire wiggle test I was able to get it to work again, so I unplugged it, grabbed my magnifier and a light and I can see one pin with a slight horizontal bend and another pin that is pressed down near the back more so than the others (like the spring or whatever it is that holds the pin up in the back is broken). I bent both pins back into position as best as I could and have had it plugged in for the past 30 minutes and everything is working. I don't have any female connectors so can't replace this one but at least at the moment it is working.

Just for good measure, three of the 3.7mp cameras are at 8192 (they are 4mp cameras but I'm not running them at full res), one 3.7mp at 6144, the 2mp is at 8192, and the 1mp is at 6144. All of them are running at 25fps on the mainstream and 20fps on the substream (the substreams are all about 1536).

And before finding the bent pins I did create a network map so for your viewing pleasure (note: this is before adding the 6th camera)...
View attachment 111751

Always comes down to a little Wiggle it . . . Just a little bit

 

[sebastiantombs]

Glad you found the problem and y wasn't switch or bandwidth related.

If you're running a VMS on that desktop PC I'd suggest plugging it directly into your PoE switch rather than have all the video traffic go through your router.

 

[MattTX]

I do often monitor the cameras from my desktop computer using Blue Iris Viewer but Blue Iris itself is running on the micro computer that is plugged into the switch. Besides needing a few more ports another reason I was planning to eventually get another switch was because my current switch is only 10/100, which is why my workstation and two NAS are plugged into the router (which is gigabit).

 

[sebastiantombs]

The router may be gigabit but it's the bandwidth of the backplane that is critical.