POE Trigger/Switch for Mailbox Cameras on BI?

[TheWaterbug]

TL;DR: How to trigger 3 cameras in BI when my mailbox is opened?

Long version: After a spate of neighborhood break-ins, it's finally time for me to install cameras out on the street. I have a BI 5.5.2.5 installation running 12 cameras on renewed Core i7-6700-based PC. I live at the end of Tee, and my mailbox is pretty much perfectly positioned to see down the Tee as well as in both directions of the cross street:



Here's the "boresight" view from the mailbox:



I don't want my house or neighborhood to look like a prison yard, but I can put two eyeball cameras just beneath the mailbox, and they won't look too horrible, but of course then they won't be able to see down the boresight view:



To look down the street, it occurred to me that an eyeball camera looks pretty much like the round finial thingy on top of my mailbox post!








I'm going to run 2 strings of outdoor-rated Ethernet in PVC conduit out to the post, so I'll be able to power the cameras, and I will put a POE-powered-POE switch out there so I can power more than 2 devices. I will set up BI to record continuously, but motion-triggers aren't going to be very useful because there is a fair amount of vehicle traffic on the streets.

So now, the questions:

How do I trigger the cameras when the mailbox is opened? Are there affordable POE eyeball cameras with hardware trigger inputs?

I saw this thread and the attached PDF on using the Shelly1 device with BI, but WiFi is very, very iffy out by the mailbox, so I don't want to rely on it; I'd much rather have an Ethernet-based Shelly-like device, like the Shelly Pro 1, but Shelly says that's "coming soon" with a 404 error when you click the pre-order link.

Lately I've been buying these Amcrest IP5M-T1179EW-28MM units, because they're cheap, they have audio, they work reasonably well, and I've found the magic diode to bypass if I want to run 12 V for an external IR illuminator (and/or to power a Shelly-like device). Are these going to be useful for LPR? I'm literally right on the street, so the distance to target is going to be very, very short.

Any other tips or advice for this setup?

Thanks!

 

[Holbs]

never dabbled with I/O inputs of any camera before.
I would slap in behind the mailbox door a simple 2 wire window/door bullet sensor that connects to either a camera, or to your home security system. I have a DSC 1634 (or is it a 1834?) with Envysion Link card that networks the DSC which interfaces with Home Assistant to do whatever I want (bing sound thru speakers, flash lights, etc).
You said you are thinking of running 2 Cat6 cables out there. Heck...run 4. I just needed 3 on my lamp post (one for 6' height camera in birdhouse, one to carry the DC 24v LED post light, one for the Bosch PIR). But, I knew I would be slapping in a LPR camera. So I ran 5 (leaves one spare) to that location. I also ran 2 more to another post location that will be connected to yet another camera that looks back at my house from 50' distant and another Bosch PIR).
And if going to do all that, toss in a 24v DC post light. You may have lighting here & there along the street but with a light source right there on your mailbox post, you will get superb facial ID clarity than a street light 20' high.

 

[TheWaterbug]

^^
I don't have an NVR with input terminals; it's just BI on an old PC. So it'll either have to talk over the network to BI, or talk directly to a camera with inputs, which is why I'm fishing for model suggestions on a camera with inputs.

Yeah, I may run a bunch more cables out there. I normally use 3/4" PVC because it's cheap and easy, but I could go larger if necessary. I just don't want it to look like a giant contraption hanging off of my mailbox.

 

[Holbs]

^^
I don't have an NVR with input terminals; it's just BI on an old PC. So it'll either have to talk over the network to BI, or talk directly to a camera with inputs, which is why I'm fishing for model suggestions on a camera with inputs.

Yeah, I may run a bunch more cables out there. I normally use 3/4" PVC because it's cheap and easy, but I could go larger if necessary. I just don't want it to look like a giant contraption hanging off of my mailbox.

I believe 6 outdoor rated Cat6 cables "BARELY" fits into a 1" PVC. Keep that in mind.

 

[TheWaterbug]

^^ very good point!!

 

[samplenhold]

Here is a thread where this guy uses a switch in the mail box to do what you are talking about, more or less. It is quite descriptive and uses solar, which you do not need, but may help.

(4) Mailbox Camera | IP Cam Talk

 

[TonyR]

I saw this thread and the attached PDF on using the Shelly1 device with BI, but WiFi is very, very iffy out by the mailbox, so I don't want to rely on it; I'd much rather have an Ethernet-based Shelly-like device, like the Shelly Pro 1, but Shelly says that's "coming soon" with a 404 error when you click the pre-order link.

FWIW, the Shelly Pro 4PM is available on the Shelly USA site here. However, I think it's 120-230 VAC powered, no 12 VDC or 24 VDC version.

 

[TheWaterbug]

I saw this thread and the attached PDF on using the Shelly1 device with BI, but WiFi is very, very iffy out by the mailbox, so I don't want to rely on it; I'd much rather have an Ethernet-based Shelly-like device, like the Shelly Pro 1, but Shelly says that's "coming soon" with a 404 error when you click the pre-order link.

I emailed Shelly tech support, and received this reply:

Currently, the only device that comes with Ethernet port is the Shelly Pro 4PM, but this device is powered by 110-240V AC - Link: Shelly Pro - Shelly Cloud. So for this setup, we don't have suitable device.

Our new generation (Pro Series) will be coming also with 12-24V DC, but are not yet available on the market and we don't have an ETA, when would they be ready for purchase. You can regularly check the official webpage for an updates about that.

which concurs with what TonyR just wrote.

Hmmm. Are there competitors out there on the market?

Or is there an affordable eyeball camera with hardware inputs?

 

[TonyR]

@TheWaterbug,
I got an e-mail notification today from Shelly that in Feb.'22 they'll have the Shelly Pro 1 with not only Wi-Fi and Bluetooth but also ETHERNET!
Plus it'll operate not only on 110-240VAC but also 12VDC!

EDIT: Shelly decided at some point to NOT support 12VDC in this unit, it is 110-240VAC only.

 

[TheWaterbug]

@TheWaterbug,
I got an e-mail notification today from Shelly that in Feb.'22 they'll have the Shelly Pro 1 with not only Wi-Fi and Bluetooth but also ETHERNET!
Plus it'll operate not only on 110-240VAC but also 12VDC!

View attachment 111265

Nice! I'm assuming this will take an input as well as generate output, right?

And why didn't I get an email from Shelly? Waaahhhh!!!!!

 

[TheWaterbug]

I just pre-ordered one. We shall see!

 

[TonyR]

Nice! I'm assuming this will take an input as well as generate output, right?

Can't see why not .
The little Shelly 1 accepts or output HTTP commands and can open/close a dry relay so this one adds BT, Ethernet, higher current rating for the relay and maybe 2 contacts, not sure.

And why didn't I get an email from Shelly? Waaahhhh!!!!!

Good question!

I just pre-ordered one. We shall see!

Great yes, we WILL see!

 

[TonyR]

Ah, I went back and read some more; it's the Shelly Pro 2 that is 2-channel, the Shelly Pro 1 is 1 channel....duh.

 

[TonyR]

Just an FYI for anyone thinking about buying one or more of these Shelly Pro units; I think you have to snap those Pro's onto a short piece of DIN rail that's mounted to your backboard, panel, box, etc. And there are 12VDC power supplies available along with fuseholders, terminal blocks, etc. that snap onto DIN rail. I used quite a bit the last 8 years before I retired in '04 and I think it's great. Love DIN rail and DIN railed-mounted stuff!

The aluminum ones cut easily with a hacksaw and the rough edges dress well with a flat file.

These seem to be a good deal and are rated well ==>> 2 Piece DIN Rails, 35mm Aluminum Top Hat Slotted DIN Rail with RoHS, Extra Premium Screws Included for Hardware Components Mounting - 12.9 Inches Long, 35mm Wide, 7.5mm High

 

[TheWaterbug]

Here's another option for detecting the opening of my mailbox:

Amazon.com : lookcctv Mini Square Security IP Camera 1080P 2MP POE Camera 3.7mm Lens Surveillance System Camera for Indoor : Electronics

Amazon.com : lookcctv Mini Square Security IP Camera 1080P 2MP POE Camera 3.7mm Lens Surveillance System Camera for Indoor : Electronics

smile.amazon.com

Amazon.com

Those are el-cheapo little POE cameras for $29 (first one) or $34 - $35 (second link, depending on model) that I could put inside my mailbox, looking at the door. I don't care about image quality or resolution; I just want BI to be able to trigger the mailbox group on "motion" when the mailbox is opened*. There's no IR LED for night vision, but I'd think I'd still get some sort of trigger when it opens, even if it opens at night. If not, maybe I can wire a basic LED to my diode-bypassed +12V out on one of my other cameras to light up the inside of the mailbox.

That's something I'll have to experiment with.

* I don't want to trigger on motion from any of the other cameras, since there's traffic on both streets pretty constantly.

 

[Duh987]

Not exactly what you want but I have the Home assistant send a snapshot of my mailbox when the motion sensor inside is triggered. My cameras record 24/7 so I have a time stamp to look in the recordings if I need more than the picture to confirm it's the mail truck.

 

[TheWaterbug]

I'm going to run 2 strings of outdoor-rated Ethernet in PVC conduit out to the post, so I'll be able to power the cameras, and I will put a POE-powered-POE switch out there so I can power more than 2 devices.

And then I'll need a fake rock to hide it all in.

 

[TheWaterbug]

Here's another option for detecting the opening of my mailbox:

Amazon.com : lookcctv Mini Square Security IP Camera 1080P 2MP POE Camera 3.7mm Lens Surveillance System Camera for Indoor : Electronics

Amazon.com : lookcctv Mini Square Security IP Camera 1080P 2MP POE Camera 3.7mm Lens Surveillance System Camera for Indoor : Electronics

smile.amazon.com

Amazon.com

Those are el-cheapo little POE cameras for $29 (first one) or $34 - $35 (second link, depending on model) that I could put inside my mailbox, looking at the door. I don't care about image quality or resolution; I just want BI to be able to trigger the mailbox group on "motion" when the mailbox is opened*. There's no IR LED for night vision, but I'd think I'd still get some sort of trigger when it opens, even if it opens at night. If not, maybe I can wire a basic LED to my diode-bypassed +12V out on one of my other cameras to light up the inside of the mailbox.

That's something I'll have to experiment with.

I ended up ordering this Revotech I706-4-P-FHW for $40 instead:

It's cheaper than the Shelly device and won't require a POE extractor for me to power it. If the imagery holds up in the mailbox (no IR illuminator!!), then configuration of BI is also simpler, since it'll be just a motion-detect.

Setup was a PITA. I plugged it into a POE switch and the LEDs on the connector lit up, so I knew it was on. The device comes out of the box without DHCP enabled , so you must install the crappy, Windows-only management software in order to find out whatever static IP was assigned to it by the factory, or by the last amazon customer who returned it. There's also no hardware reset button, so there's no easy way for the retailer to reset one of these things if it gets returned. The paperwork inside the box contains 2 QR codes. The Google Drive version does not contain links for the software, but the OneDrive version does .

The iOS app they suggest you download just does not work. When you click Sign Up to create a new account, you're instructed to enter a mobile phone number. Anything other than 11 digits throws an error. Entries of the format "13105551212" get accepted, but then Next results in an animated status thingy that never produces a result. So maybe 11 digits isn't a US phone number with a "1" country code prefix; maybe it's expecting a Chinese mobile number, which is typically 11 digits.

So, for the benefit of anyone searching the intarwebs on how the hell to set up this camera, my particular unit had an IP address of 172.16.0.106, and a MAC address of e0:62:90:xx:xx:xx, from Jinan Jovision Science & Technology Co., Ltd. Had I known the MAC prefix and/or if it had been printed on the unit or the box, I supposed I could have ARPed an IP address to it. Default login is admin/<blank>.

Once I had the camera discovered in the crappy CMS software I was able to change my computers IP address to the same subnet, change the Network setting to DHCP, change the password from <blank> to something else, change my computer's IP back, log into the camera from my Mac, and then configure it from there. Note that I can configure the camera from my Mac browser, but I can't see the video. Note also that the password cannot be changed from <something> back to <blank>, as the web UI refuses that, and so it's impossible to set the unit completely back to factory defaults.

The 2304 x 1296 main stream is at:

rtsp:/username:password@the.cameras.ip.address:8554/profile0

and the 720 x 480 substream is at:

rtsp:/username:password@the.cameras.ip.address:8554/profile1

Once I got that all figured out, I was able to get both streams in VLC and then add it to BI.

Image quality is what you'd expect for a tiny, cheap camera. The one nice thing about this super-compact/minimalist design is the lens can be manually focused without have to loosen anything. I can just twist the knob. It's also a fisheye lens on this particular model, so I get a circular image like I'm looking through a tube. Yup, that big black tube is always there:



Lots of pink lens reflections from my overhead lights! Video lag via BI/UI3 is about a second, which is better than I expected. It's actually laggier in VLC than via BI/UI3, which I find surprising. Low-light performance is surprisingly good, e.g. it sees better than my human eyes can.

There's also something rattling around inside the case. .

I'm going to give this 2.5/5.0 stars. It's cheap, and it's functional for my very particular use case, but there's an awful lot about it that's annoying as hell. I'm about 50/50 on whether to keep it, return it for a non-rattling unit, or just return it. If I do return it, I'll leave the Network set for DHCP and put a little piece of paper inside the box with the new password and the MAC address for the next customer.

It looks like a standard form factor on the lens, so if I do keep it, and I don't like the fisheye any more, I could experiment with swapping in something from my box of random camera parts.

 

[TheWaterbug]

It's also a fisheye lens on this particular model, so I get a circular image like I'm looking through a tube.

Apparently I didn't look at the amazon page very carefully. They actually offer 4 different lenses:

1. This 1.44mm fisheye (180°)
2. 1.7mm fisheye (170°)
3. 3.6mm (no FOV specified)
4. 3.7mm "Pinhole" (80°)

I'm considering sending this one back and swapping for the 3.6mm, but there's no guarantee that the guts of the camera will be the same. The amazon reviews are all over the map.

 

[TheWaterbug]

I'm considering sending this one back and swapping for the 3.6mm, but there's no guarantee that the guts of the camera will be the same. The amazon reviews are all over the map.

. . . and the replacement unit came up with a DHCP address right away, so it was much easier to set up.

I have house guests in the room with inside POE switch, so I'll post pictures tomorrow after they leave.