PTZ Seeking Your Sage Advice And Guidance

[Titillating Bustline]

I know nothing - but am toying with the idea of a single PTZ install.

Over the past six weeks or so I’ve had some minor mischief on and around my property.

One neighbour has what I think are ring cameras from his garage and front window. Another neighbour, a retired City Police Inspector, has a PTZ at his front, and I think another in the back.

To properly cover my area would require at least four fixed cameras. But a single PTZ, like my neighbour, would likely be nearly as effective and much less aggravation.

I‘m seeking a PTZ that can do 4K, as well as be as discrete as possible. A recessed mount inside the soffit would be ideal.

But I also need a PTZ that will automatically track people coming and going.

It would also be nice if I could somehow block the PTZ from looking at my next door neighbours.

Gentlemen: Does such a product exist?

Edited to add that I’m willing to go $1-2K for the best camera to fit my needs.

 

[wittaj]

A typical NOOB chasing MP and one cam LOL

One PTZ means the camera will be looking left while the perps come from the right. It only works in the movies and TV with the camera panning around.

It is best to have fixed cams with a PTZ to compliment the fixed cams. Not many here would suggest one PTZ without fixed cams as well. Did your neighbor with one PTZ capture the person?

How was the quality of those Ring cameras LOL?

You want 4K - open your wallet LOL. You may find cheaper 4K PTZs but they will be toys...

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Sensitivity-Auto-Tracking-Protection-Recognition/dp/B0BRQ6ML1K/ref=sr_1_69?m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1695843456&s=merchant-items&sr=1-69

This is a good discrete one:

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Starlight-5mm-125mm-Auto-Tracking-Protection/dp/B0BPH7L1Z1/ref=sr_1_21?m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&qid=1695843518&s=merchant-items&sr=1-21

 

[Broachoski]

This one can be fitted with a newly released recessed mount.
With its 5mm minimum focal lenght, it does not provide a wide field of view when in tight quarters.

https://www.amazon.com/EmpireTech-Starlight-5mm-125mm-Auto-Tracking-Protection/dp/B0BPH7L1Z1

@wittaj beat me to it.

 

[Titillating Bustline]

Thank you, gentlemen.

I should clarify that I’m certainly not looking to waste any money - but am willing to pay $1-2K for the best fit for my needs.

 

[looney2ns]

More fixed cameras are always better than a PTZ. As stated above, it is highly likely that it will be looking the wrong direction when something happens.
Study this: Cliff Notes
And this: The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection | IP Cam Talk

 

[wittaj]

Depending on your field of view and home layout, the best approach is a couple of fixed cams that are used as spotter cams to direct the PTZ where to look and start tracking.

Using Spotter Cameras to direct a PTZ where to look in an NVR or Blue Iris and setting a spotter cam as a priority in Blue Iris

We get this question from time to time, so I thought with the recent addition to BI, it made sense to have a thread we can point to. Previously in BI, if you had more than one spotter cam, you could not make one a priority, so if spotter cam #1 triggered the PTZ and it starts tracking and...

ipcamtalk.com

While that discrete PTZ I linked is smaller than most and hides easier, it does need more light as it isn't on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

And for a PTZ that can be critical due to the varying degrees of lack of light it may see as it follows a subject around the property at night.

This is the best bang for the buck right now on PTZs as it is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

1/1.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | Powerful 25x optical zoom | Starlight+ Technology | Max. 25/30fps@4MP | IR distance up to 150 m | Deep-learning-based perimeter protection | Auto-tracking and IVS | PoE+ | IP67, IK10

empiretech01.com

Sure you will find cheaper cameras, but they will not be on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and then the quality at night suffers and all you can tell the police is what time it happened instead of being able to provide good pictures.

Here is a thread of countless examples of cheaper cameras and how poor they performed:

The Typical picture of a Perp on Nextdoor-type Apps with Consumer Grade Cameras like Ring, Nest, Arlo, Canary, Wyze, etc.

Love these posts on Nextdoor type apps LOL. This thread will be used for members to post the poor quality consumer grade type camera images that we see people post to the Nextdoor type apps. Can anyone make out this person that went thru their cars LOL.... And this thread is where members...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Titillating Bustline]

This is the best bang for the buck right now on PTZs as it is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

1/1.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | Powerful 25x optical zoom | Starlight+ Technology | Max. 25/30fps@4MP | IR distance up to 150 m | Deep-learning-based perimeter protection | Auto-tracking and IVS | PoE+ | IP67, IK10

empiretech01.com

Sure you will find cheaper cameras, but they will not be on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and then the quality at night suffers and all you can tell the police is what time it happened instead of being able to provide good pictures.

This is exactly the camera that I picked out for myself on the internet a few days ago. I even went so far as to sculpt a styrofoam mock-up of it to hang from my eave for a sense of scale. Sadly it’s more prominent than I’d like.

Maybe if I had it powder coated a more neutral colour? Or if I could jam it up into the soffit - with only the camera ball exposed?

That‘s why I was hoping there might be an equally performing camera in a slightly more discrete form factor.

 

[Mike A.]

There's this one with a mount as you want but not equally performing:

Review-SD4A425DB-HNY 1/2.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight Auto-tracking MiniPTZ

The latest new firmware has been updated here. empiretech01.com/pages/download-firmwares Any notes on what has changed or what this fixes?

ipcamtalk.com

 

[garycrist]

Paint or tape the base. Put a dark color behind the black ball and no one will see it.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah the PTZs are big, but after a day or so you won't notice it.

I have more than 3 on my house and nobody says anything LOL. People are oblivious.

Paint or tape it to match the color of your house to make it less noticeable.

At the end of the day we need to decide do we want tiny discreet cameras that come at the cost of poor video or a larger one to actually do the job!

 

[Titillating Bustline]

Yeah the PTZs are big, but after a day or so you won't notice it.

I have more than 3 on my house and nobody says anything LOL. People are oblivious.

Paint or tape it to match the color of your house to make it less noticeable.

At the end of the day we need to decide do we want tiny discreet cameras that come at the cost of poor video or a larger one to actually do the job!

I have a tiny suburban house. Think of the smallest house you can conjure up in your mind - then shrink some more. That’s the size of my house. LOL

i‘d love to have three of those sweet sweet 4K PTZs on my house. But I’m afraid that even one will look like something from Star Wars on my doll house of a home.

That‘s why I’m seeking something that’s as discrete as possible without compromising performance.

Is there maybe something coming available that might achieve those objectives?

I could wait a few months. Maybe six. But likely no longer than that.

I’m kind of a buy it once sort of person. So I don’t mind spending the dough - or delaying a bit - if it means I wont be compromising on product for the sake of expediency.

 

[wittaj]

Oh I didn't say I have that 4K LOL - I wish LOL.

I don't think waiting 6 months will bring a better/cheaper PTZ to the market. The best value one above that you have looked at is several years old and is still considered the best sub $1,000 PTZ on the market.

The mini-PTZ is about as small as they get if you want true performance. There are some toy ones out there but they aren't good.

I tried that route and have a box full of cameras that I went cheap and replaced within a year LOL. My first PTZ was a Sunba and it lasted about a year before I upgraded to a real PTZ.

The mini-PTZ is a great camera if you have the light. I have one and while it doesn't perform as well as my 2MP PTZ that is on an ideal MP/sensor ratio, it holds it own.

So if you don't need more than say 60 feet of coverage and have some porch lights on, maybe a street light, then the mini-PTZ might be ok for you.

Here is a thread where I compare 3 of mine, so decide for yourself which image you want:

Comparison between PTZs - the 49225 versus 49425 versus Mini-PTZ - mailbox checker

We recently had a group come thru checking mailboxes, so I wanted to share the differences between the PTZs. I purchased these from @EMPIRETECANDY The 49225 was the sub $400 autotracking king of PTZs. It sports 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor. This camera is still being sold, but autotracking has...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Mike A.]

You'll need to compromise as far as some of your wished for features then. There are lots of good smaller fixed cams. That's probably the better way to go anyway to start. There are small 4X PTZs but they don't track and typically don't have great sensors. You can move them in the same way with spotters so you can get different views on things when triggered.

One advantage that the smaller PTZs do have is that the lower end of their focal range goes down toward 2.8mm vs bigger PTZs being 5 or 6mm at the widest setting. If you have a smaller, closer area that you're wanting to watch the latter can be a little too tight as a minimum.

 

[Titillating Bustline]

Oh I didn't say I have that 4K LOL - I wish LOL.

I don't think waiting 6 months will bring a better/cheaper PTZ to the market. The best value one above that you have looked at is several years old and is still considered the best sub $1,000 PTZ on the market.

The mini-PTZ is about as small as they get if you want true performance. There are some toy ones out there but they aren't good.

I tried that route and have a box full of cameras that I went cheap and replaced within a year LOL. My first PTZ was a Sunba and it lasted about a year before I upgraded to a real PTZ.

The mini-PTZ is a great camera if you have the light. I have one and while it doesn't perform as well as my 2MP PTZ that is on an ideal MP/sensor ratio, it holds it own.

So if you don't need more than say 60 feet of coverage and have some porch lights on, maybe a street light, then the mini-PTZ might be ok for you.

Here is a thread where I compare 3 of mine, so decide for yourself which image you want:

Comparison between PTZs - the 49225 versus 49425 versus Mini-PTZ - mailbox checker

We recently had a group come thru checking mailboxes, so I wanted to share the differences between the PTZs. I purchased these from @EMPIRETECANDY The 49225 was the sub $400 autotracking king of PTZs. It sports 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor. This camera is still being sold, but autotracking has...

ipcamtalk.com

You'll need to compromise as far as some of your wished for features then. There are lots of good smaller fixed cams. That's probably the better way to go anyway to start. There are small 4X PTZs but they don't track and typically don't have great sensors. You can move them in the same way with spotters so you can get different views on things when triggered.

One advantage that the smaller PTZs do have is that the lower end of their focal range goes down toward 2.8mm vs bigger PTZs being 5 or 6mm at the widest setting. If you have a smaller, closer area that you're wanting to watch the latter can be a little too tight as a minimum.

Okay - so now I’m realizing that I need to better describe my installation.

My lot is only 35 feet wide. Doll house, remember?

I only need the camera to see maybe 50 feet down my laneway.

My house is lit with two x 4,300 lumen flood lights, until 11 pm.

Throughout the night I also have one x 4,300 lumen lawn lamp, on a post at seven feet tall.

My house is very well lit. But the recent mischief has been happening at the edges of my property.

 

[wittaj]

Then go with the mini-PTZ - sounds like a good fit for it.

 

[Broachoski]

How do you plan on monitoring your camera(s), NVR or software based like the ever so popular Blueiris?
Full time recording is prefered as you will miss important footage if you only record on alerts.
I am not familiar with NVRs but with Blueiris you can schedule your PTZ to monitor different areas at different time of the day.

 

[Titillating Bustline]

How do you plan on monitoring your camera(s), NVR or software based like the ever so popular Blueiris?
Full time recording is prefered as you will miss important footage if you only record on alerts.
I am not familiar with NVRs but with Blueiris you can schedule your PTZ to monitor different areas at different time of the day.

Truthfully, I’ve not placed much thought into monitoring.

I’m kind of a plug and play kind of person. And I’d be hesitant to connect my cameras to the internet. So no cloud for me.

 

[Broachoski]

Here is a pic from the MINIptz using no zoom with led flood light mounted above the camera. The camera is 10 ft off the ground and the car is 50 ft from the camera.

 

[wittaj]

He didn't mention internet lol. Blue Iris or NVR doesn't need internet.

But PTZs are not plug-n-play. It will take some time dialing them in to your field of view to get the tracking to perform somewhat reliably.

You could get by with an SD card in the camera but you will be limited to hours of storage if recording 24/7.

 

[JDreaming]

He didn't mention internet lol. Blue Iris or NVR doesn't need internet.

But PTZs are not plug-n-play. It will take some time dialing them in to your field of view to get the tracking to perform somewhat reliably.

You could get by with an SD card in the camera but you will be limited to hours of storage if recording 24/7.

Can have around 3 days of video from a 512GB sd card for a 4k camera at 25fps recording 24/7 using H264.