RE: HikVision Setup

C

Curious Lobster

n3wb
Mar 12, 2015
17
0
Hi,

I am thinking about purchasing a camera system from Hikvision for my business and came up with this:

DS-2CD2512F-IS = 4 Cameras @2.8mm
DS-2CD2032-I = 6 Cameras @4mm
DS-2CD2032-I = 6 Cameras @6mm
DS-7716NI-SP, 16CH NVR = 1 NVR

I have a few questions and I figured why not pitch it to the pros before trying it out:
1.) All the cameras are PoE, but my business is 72m L x 55m W (3960m^2) and some of the cameras will have to go beyond the 100M limit. Should I get repeaters for this or would it be fine without?
2.) What cable should I use, I was looking at the Cat 6 FTP cable but I'm not 100% sure as yet. Also should I get Solid or Stranded?
3.) I have been reading on several forums that in terms of hardware ONLY, the English-Chinese Hacked Cameras + English-Chinese Hacked NVRs are the exact same as the Hikvision USA cameras and NVRs. If this is true then how would I go about changing the firmware of these specific cameras and NVR to that of their English counterparts?
4.) Also are the English-Chinese Hacked Cameras compatible with an English NVR? (All of this is from Hikvision).

I apologize if this has been posted before, but this has been bugging me for the passed 2 weeks and I have no idea what to do, whether I should get them or not.

Looking forward to your reply.

V
 
I would run a solid Cat6 that is 23awg; preferably a brand like BerkTek, Belden(Mohawk), Superior Essex, General Cable. Don't buy cheap mystery offshore cable, might save a few bucks but it's not worth the problems if it has one.

You will probably have to put switches in two or three areas to try and break up the cable lengths. Do not push POE over 100m. Look at something like TP-Link TL-SG1008PE.
 
1. I use Veracity Longspans for runs over 100m. They work well, are small and can extend PoE for a long distance, our longest is about 2,000'. If you have several cameras at a single distant location, consider using one pair of Longspans and put a PoE switch at that location.

2. If it's a commercial building with machinery and such, you may want to consider shielded cable, but in most cases, the cheap stuff, Cat5 works fine. If you are running wires inside plenums, you may want to get plenum rated wire. Stranded is used for short patch cables only, otherwise it's solid.

3. Yes, the hardware is the same, it's how they are flashed that makes them different. With the new Hikvision cameras, I would not tinker with firmware as most are now hacked unless you get genuine Hikvision USA cameras which are supported, serviced by Hikvision USA. Otherwise they are serviced/supported by the reseller, which makes selecting a good reseller important.

4. I never ran into problems using Hikvision cameras with Hikvision NVRs




Curious Lobster said:
Hi,

1.) All the cameras are PoE, but my business is 72m L x 55m W (3960m^2) and some of the cameras will have to go beyond the 100M limit. Should I get repeaters for this or would it be fine without?
2.) What cable should I use, I was looking at the Cat 6 FTP cable but I'm not 100% sure as yet. Also should I get Solid or Stranded?
3.) I have been reading on several forums that in terms of hardware ONLY, the English-Chinese Hacked Cameras + English-Chinese Hacked NVRs are the exact same as the Hikvision USA cameras and NVRs. If this is true then how would I go about changing the firmware of these specific cameras and NVR to that of their English counterparts?
4.) Also are the English-Chinese Hacked Cameras compatible with an English NVR? (All of this is from Hikvision).
Click to expand...
 
networkcameracritic said:
1. I use Veracity Longspans for runs over 100m. They work well, are small and can extend PoE for a long distance, our longest is about 2,000'. If you have several cameras at a single distant location, consider using one pair of Longspans and put a PoE switch at that location.
Click to expand...

How much do you pay for longspans? At the prices I'm seeing on the web, I would just run some preterm fiber and a switches with SFP ports. Maybe just a media convertor at the LAN port. No EMI to worry about from ballasts, machinery, or AC.
 
They are a few hundred but it send the PoE to the remote device, so in theory, he can plug one into the back of his NVR, plug the other into the camera and of course the cat6 in-between and done.

Not sure how cost effective it would be to have a remote PoE switch say for one camera and connecting it to nearby switch with fiber. For example, you would need a power outlet to plug this into on the remote end, with the longspans, it's PoE powered only on the local end, no power required at the camera end.
 
Wow guys, thanks for all the great replies.

To get things started I'll explain my situation. Currently I am vacationing between China and Thailand so getting legitimate things from China should not be too much of a problem as I hope to deal with legitimate companies only.
Quick Question: For those of you who purchase on Aliexpress, are those cameras English-Hacked, or are they legitimate English/European versions?

Lets see.... I was thinking to go ahead with the Solid Cat 6a UTP cable as I have heard that this has greater range than Regular Cat 6 but I am not sure as it is UTP.
Quick Question: The cable has 4 pairs, does this mean each pair must be connected to "RJ45 Solid Plug" or the 8P8C Solid Plug, meaning that I can connect up to 4 cameras on PoE Per cable?

I've seen you guys mention that I should use PoE switches along the way for the cameras that are further away from the NVR. If I were to do this, would that mean that I will need to find a power source (plug outlet) near to where I intend to place the PoE Switch?
For example, If I am at the 75Meter mark, should I use a PoE switch at that point and will the PoE switch need to have its own power source? (Im a complete noob when it comes to using cameras lol)

I would like to run the cat 6a cable in PVC pipe as a precautionary measure as it will be UTP Cat 6a cable, is this a good idea or not?

Also the Veracity Longspans, how do they work???
And would I have to buy 2 for each individual camera+port on NVR?
And do they need their own power supply when attached to either the camera/NVR?

Thanks again for the help guys.
 
6a (Augmented Cat6) is not necessary. You do not need 10gig bandwidth. If you did, it would be more economical to run fiber anyways. 10gig copper SFP's/NIC's will cost you just as much as fiber but come with distance limitations where fiber does not (unless you talk kilometers). A Cat6a that actually lives up to claimed specifications will cost 2-3 times as much. Buy offshore 6a cable and put a Fluke DTX to it and it will most likely fail. Terminations are also finicky. Running PVC inside a good idea. EMT or riser/plenum rated inner duct. Need to know environment.

I would assume with 16 cameras you are going to have multiple that exceed 100m distance from NVR? Those Veracity devices would be convenient for a camera, maybe 2, but would quickly get expensive. It would also lock you into a somewhat proprietary setup that would have limitations if you ever wanted to change your structure a little later or repurpose it. That's why I would recommend switches with at least a gig backbone between them. If you can place the switches within 100m, then you can stick with copper. I would also make the assumption, that your facility would have a couple places it would not be difficult to find a power and place a switch safely. Maybe some small network cabinets are in order. Without knowing the environment, it's hard to make suggestions. Is it warehouse, office, retail, manufacturing, industrial???
 
Curious Lobster: cams from Ali are hacked.

Cams are 10/100M, so Cat6 is useless.
 
Hi there,

Thanks for your response.
@johngalt;
Thanks for your suggestions. I was thinking the same thing that it would be better to run Cat 6 Cable through a Gigabit PoE Switch at the 75 - 80M mark and find a nearby power source to run the switch.
You mentioned running Fiber cable, but as these cameras are PoE only they won't work with fiber, would they?
If they do work with Fiber then how would I go about doing a set up like that?
Also the area I will be setting these cameras up in would be a manufacturing plant, so there will be alot of electrical cables around, however I will be running the cameras a good distance above these cables (for the most part, maybe 1 or 2 will have to be relatively close to some high voltage cables)
P.S I have no idea how to get Plenum Rated cable EMT or Riser/Plenum rated inner duct cables.......(I don't even know what these are lol..... I'm not very experienced with Cameras)
@S474N;
Thanks for the reply. What do you mean the cameras are 10/100M? (I honestly have no idea what this means)

P.S Sorry for the late replies. As I'm in Thailand now, my time schedule is reversed.
 
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Just wanted to through in a few thoughts on long runs and Cat 6.

I'm running on the ragged edge of long runs on my furtherest three cameras and thought I might have problems. First, I personally choose to use Cat6 to hopefully eliminate a possible long distant signal degeneration problems and to future proof my system. Second, depending on how many cameras you are planing to run at a distance over 100ft, a person could run Cat5 from the cameras to say a 10 port POE switch with a fiber port, than run a single fiber cable to another POE switch with a fiber port than to your server or NVR. There are many +'s in this type of configuration, using a good quality POE switch with a fiber channel will also enable you to incorporate a POE wireless access point and allow you to run wireless cameras at long distances!

I'm not a Cisco salesman but I do like the quality and price of the 300 series managed switches. Key words here are Managed and POE!

Cisco Small Business 300 Series Managed Switches - Products & Services - Cisco
 
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S474N said:
10/100M = 10 and 100 Mbit. Cat5 is also for 1000M = 1GBIT. Why you want Cat 6?
Click to expand...
The additional cost of cat6 is negligible..about 25 dollars more for a 1000f run.... cat6 is generally 23awg which is a bit thicker than the standard cat5e,,,,there is less attenuation and crosstalk for very long runs at the fringe of the limits...
Do you need cat6? No...but if running new cable you may as well use it....even if its just for future proofing...
 
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If you want use Cat 6, you must also use everything for Cat 6 - from patch panels, to wall sockets, etc. Everything is more expensive, and for GLAN is Cat5E perfectly sufficient.
 
S474N said:
If you want use Cat 6, you must also use everything for Cat 6 - from patch panels, to wall sockets, etc. Everything is more expensive, and for GLAN is Cat5E perfectly sufficient.
Click to expand...
...we are still talking a couple of dollars, most of the time its just plugs at each end of the cable-not a bunch of wall sockets and patch panels-even so the price difference on those is negligible....the attenuation benefit is there regardless of the plugs used because the cable is thicker...its simply a personal choice to spend 30-40 dollars today for a better quality cable vs rewiring in 5-10 years if need be...if the price difference was substantial then i would agree..
I see where you are coming from, buts it boils down to personal choice...you can certainly not go wrong by using cat 6..
 
S474N said:
If you want use Cat 6, you must also use everything for Cat 6 - from patch panels, to wall sockets, etc. Everything is more expensive, and for GLAN is Cat5E perfectly sufficient.
Click to expand...

Technically true, but I recommend the Cat6 cable because your are pushing POE to the limits. If I was going through the trouble of running 16 drops 100 meters, I would want the headroom given to me by the slightly large conductor, with more consistent characteristic impedances, and lower alien crosstalk. The price of the cable vs the labor is negligible.

Look at TP-Link TL-SG2210P and TL-SM311LS. Low cost. Run pre terminated armored single-mode fiber between them or riser rated fiber in inner duct. Call your nearest electrical distributors and get quotes. Singlemode fiber is dirt cheap. You may was well pull 6 strands in case you ever need it for something else. 6 and 12 strand will more than likely be cheaper, just because it is often more available (unless you are talking patch cord/zipcord type).

EDIT(additional info): You want a tight buffered fiber with connectors that match the SFP on the switch, For example, the TL-SM311LS uses two fibers with LC connectors.
 
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S474N said:
How many home users needs more than 100m of cable? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

He said it's in industrial space, which probably means running it in ceilings that are 30ft high. That means scissor lifts or forklift platforms. This whole thread was started based on designing something to compensate for excessive run lengths.
 
The fiber would only be a backbone between POE switches to break up your runs.

I used to use a company called iFiberOptix out of Irvine, CA.

Ask them for a quote on some 6 strand armored SM pre terminated fiber with a pulling eye at whatever length you would measure between switches. I would think it would be around the $1 a foot range these days. Otherwise you would use a riser rated fiber optic cable and then pull it through innerduct to protect it (innerduct is like flexible PVC). This often turns out to be more expensive and more labor intensive.
 
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HI Guys,

Thanks for the great replies.
The cost of Cat 6a to Cat 6 is negligible, as I would prefer to reduce any interference from any of the electrical equipment in one go rather than have to re-do cabling.
For those saying to run fiber, how would I run PoE cameras over a fiber line?
And would the Hikvision Cameras even be compatible with that?
Also I heard that optic fiber is very bad when the wire needs to bend or go vertically, so i'm not sure if it would be best for me as I will have at least 3 - 4 (90 degree) bends to deal with when doing the cabling.

Thanks for your help again guys.
 
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