Recommendation Needed: 30x Optical Zoom

bigredfish said:
Each location will need to be looked at in detail and define EXACTLY what you hope to accomplish.

#1 thing we see here is people trying to do too much with too few cameras and end up with shitty results

All of those things are possible

For the Front maybe a single 180 Overview, or two single lens VF cams that work with with two PTZs. But Good PTZ's start at $500-$600 and really good ones are $1500+

160+ft


450-500ft
Click to expand...

Wow, that is exactly what I had in mind. I would absolutely love a camera or 2 that could do this!

Where do I start? I already have a 4 camera set up and just adding something like this would make a huge difference. I don't like the Cameras I have but adding this on a seperate in house build would be nice. Could you share a link to buy them by chance? I don't mine doing wiring, in house recording etc...

Thank you so much for the info and the time you took to make your post. I have been searching for a place to get good information and I finally found it.
 
wittaj said:
Yeah, we have a whole thread dedicated to all those types of cameras that fail at capturing any type of identifiable. The cameras you have been using are set up to give a nice bright static image, but as you saw motion is completely useless.

I put in my reply above a link to a thread that is used as the go to for the new person here outlining the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value/best bang for the buck in terms of price and performance day and night. It might be a 2MP camera in some instances. Many here feel 4MP is the current sweet spot for these cameras. And most of these cameras are under $250.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection - I encourage you to spend time reading this thread. It answers a lot of questions.


We don't recommend kits and you can buy cameras as your budget allows. Each camera should be selected for a specific goal.


You seem to be set thinking a PTZ is the answer. It is not.


One camera cannot be the be all/see all. The camera to IDENTIFY at 15 feet is a different camera than one to IDENTIFY at 70 feet.

Keep in mind that PTZs with auto tracking are a compliment to an existing fixed camera system and not replacements for fixed cameras.

So with only PTZs and no additional fixed cameras - what happens when 2 or more people come up to your house - the PTZ is only catching and tracking one of them, not all of them.

PTZs are not perfect and can lose tracking. Then you miss the person.

What happens when the PTZ is looking left and a perp comes from the right?

That is why PTZs are not a replacement for fixed cameras - they are a compliment to an existing system.

If you rely on a PTZ only it will miss many instances, especially when it is off tracking something else.

You are much better off using fixed cams as spotter cams to point the PTZ to where the action is and then let the autotracking take over from there.

See this thread on how a PTZ compliments a fixed camera system.


As we have said, if you want to read plates, even if it is just by eyeball, you need to set up a camera for that. During the daytime you can probably get plates of anyone turning into the driveway because the shutter speed is faster than night time. At night, if you set the camera up to be able to see around then the plate will look like this (even on great cameras because it is shutter speed that gets the plates):

View attachment 217707
Click to expand...
Wow, hard facts right there. I can't really argue with you on the fact that an existing system would be complimented by PTZ.

My thinking was wrong, so maybe I just need to start with what I have.... 4 camera set up and add 2 PTZ cameras. Then build static cameras along with the current system. ADT is my current system, but it doesn't have 24/7 recording so I am struggeling any time I want video to find/get anything. I think where I should start is setting up the recording device and a camera or 2. Then build on it from there.

The static cameras I have now will work, but I would like to probably add 2 or 3 more cameras possible 2 Static and one PTZ.

What do you think? ADT is garbage and I am excited to get my secuirty out from under a company that obviosly doesn't care about the people they are protecting.
 
The problem you may run into is that the current ADT cameras you have may be proprietary and not able to work with another system.

But even if they did, as you saw, they are crap for any IDENTIFY, especially at night.

The best advice we can give is buy one varifocal like the 54IR-ZE linked below and play with it for awhile. Move it around to different spots to get a feel for its capabilities, and limitations.

It is hard to go from the wide-angle I can see the whole neighborhood to a zoomed in small defined pinch point.

Once somewhere crosses that hurdle, then they realize why they need more cams LOL.

Then the next hurdle to cross is to accept at night that the image will be darker than you are used to.

A nice bright static image with blur motion is useless unless you have stadium quality lighting.

You have to increase the shutter speed to eliminate the blur at night, but the faster the shutter, the darker the image.

 
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wittaj said:
The problem you may run into is that the current ADT cameras you have may be proprietary and not able to work with another system.

But even if they did, as you saw, they are crap for any IDENTIFY, especially at night.

The best advice we can give is buy one varifocal like the 54IR-ZE linked below and play with it for awhile. Move it around to different spots to get a feel for its capabilities, and limitations.

It is hard to go from the wide-angle I can see the whole neighborhood to a zoomed in small defined pinch point.

Once somewhere crosses that hurdle, then they realize why they need more cams LOL.

Then the next hurdle to cross is to accept at night that the image will be darker than you are used to.

A nice bright static image with blur motion is useless unless you have stadium quality lighting.

You have to increase the shutter speed to eliminate the blur at night, but the faster the shutter, the darker the image.

Click to expand...
Yep, no new information here and I think that means I'm ready to buy something. A lot of people in this thread have linked me things, do you share commission off referals or is it the first referal link I click on gets the commision?

The camera you linked would need to be hard wired to a box, this is the way I want to go but I need the box, wire, etc... do you have recommendations?
 
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
The referral link is on all pages for general referrals for the site owner, and has nothing to do with members like us getting any commission or camera stuff We’re all volunteer members

As @wittaj mentioned, very likely your ADT stuff is proprietary so you’ll be starting from scratch . You could keep that if it ties to your alarm system but the new cameras would be completely independent from it and not interact with your ADT alarm system

Sounds like you need to start with an NVR and a couple of the varifocal T54IR-ZE cameras suggested

You know these are hard wired not WiFi right?
 
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Timboo said:
Yep, no new information here and I think that means I'm ready to buy something. A lot of people in this thread have linked me things, do you share commission off referals or is it the first referal link I click on gets the commision?

The camera you linked would need to be hard wired to a box, this is the way I want to go but I need the box, wire, etc... do you have recommendations?
Click to expand...

No commissions here LOL. I guess the site does if you use their link or something. We have no idea why that shows up on some threads and not others LOL.

But I get nothing out of the referral LOL.

These are the options for the mount depending on how you plan to hang it. Or you shove the cables in the wall or soffit LOL.

  • PFA130-E Junction Box
  • PFB203W Wall Mount
  • PFA152-E Pole Mount
  • PFA106 Mount Adapter
  • PFB220C Ceiling Mount

The ethernet cable you need should be pure copper, not CCA.
 
The box (NVR)
It’s only $30 difference between the 8ch and 16ch and even if you don’t use the extra channels there are benefits in capabilities and horsepower

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech NVR16CH-16P-2AI 16 Channels 1U 16PoE 2HDD Network Video Rec

Multiple decoding formats Support AcuPick with Max. 16-Channel Support N+M cluster AI by recorder AI by camera Security baseline 2.3
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
 
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bigredfish said:
The referral link is on all pages for general referrals for the site owner, and has nothing to do with members like us getting any commission or camera stuff We’re all volunteer members

As @wittaj mentioned, very likely your ADT stuff is proprietary so you’ll be starting from scratch . You could keep that if it ties to your alarm system but the new cameras would be completely independent from it and not interact with your ADT alarm system

Sounds like you need to start with an NVR and a couple of the varifocal T54IR-ZE cameras suggested

You know these are hard wired not WiFi right?
Click to expand...

Yep, I am aware they are hardwire and have some experience with fishing cables through the walls, so I will make placements that give me this ability.

I added the NVR from empire tech to the cart, the T54IR-ZE cameras also look at what I want. I will probably just start with a few of those and scrap the crap from ADT... or just keep it onling till it doesn't work anymore. I already canceled with them several months ago and they send me bills but I don't pay them. Everything still works and I own the equipment so it isn't on lease or anything. At this point I won't care if it works with the new system or not, just want to start over with something that I control and can utilize here, or take with me somewhere else without having to buy all new equipment... as I have had to do 2 times already.

Dang, you all should get commisions on all the recommendations. I definetly will be sending people here who want to know about cameras and a security system. I am blessed to have found this forum and will definetly keep tabs on it. Y'all all know your stuff and it helps me make an informed decission.

Thank you.

wittaj said:
No commissions here LOL. I guess the site does if you use their link or something. We have no idea why that shows up on some threads and not others LOL.

But I get nothing out of the referral LOL.

These are the options for the mount depending on how you plan to hang it. Or you shove the cables in the wall or soffit LOL.

  • PFA130-E Junction Box
  • PFB203W Wall Mount
  • PFA152-E Pole Mount
  • PFA106 Mount Adapter
  • PFB220C Ceiling Mount

The ethernet cable you need should be pure copper, not CCA.
Click to expand...
Awww, I was hopeful that you all got paid a little bit for the effort you are putting into this site. Major props to everyone here that helped out because I was soooo super lost before I found this forum and now I actually have an idea of what I need and what to do.

I plan on fishing cables through the walls so I don't have to worry about charging a battery, or the camera losing power during a critical moment. I have some expirience with fishing wires through the walls and have a compitent electrical experience to back up the work needed.

The mounts seem alright, are they sold seperatly? Not that it matters, just never seen the mounts advertised seperatly.

Definetly pure copper, CCA is garbage. I have a 2GB Mirrored connection at my home for computers and what not so I definetly understand the importance of the pure copper aspect. If you have a recommendation for the cable I will need for the T54IR-ZE Cameras, I would be open to check it out.

bigredfish said:
The box (NVR)
It’s only $30 difference between the 8ch and 16ch and even if you don’t use the extra changes there are benefits in capabilities and horsepower

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech NVR16CH-16P-2AI 16 Channels 1U 16PoE 2HDD Network Video Rec

Multiple decoding formats Support AcuPick with Max. 16-Channel Support N+M cluster AI by recorder AI by camera Security baseline 2.3
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
Click to expand...

Ah, copy that. I will check out the 16ch and look for the upgrades. After everything is fleshed out I plan on having 4 cameras in the front, 3-4 in the back, 2 inside, 1 in the garage, 1 in the workshop. So 10-12 cameras total would mean I need more than an 8ch anyway.

To start with I am thinking 4 cameras, 2 in front 1 in back, and 1 inside would be the best option. I've been looking at the T54IR-ZE from the comment above and I could do 3 of those and the NVR to start and then order more as the funds are available.

Thanks again for all the information and I will definetly make sure what I am getting is what I need/will work....


Ohhh, someone before asked me for specs exactly what I need.... here is a list: (12-14ish total?) Not really set on the final set up. If I spend $5,000 on a good set up over the next 2 or 3 years I wouldn't be mad. Just wanna make sure I have everything on the house covered. The more I have covered and the better quality the safer my wife will feel while I am away.
1xFront Door Camera to capture faces and people at the front door, I have a google doorbell/camera at the moment and it seems to work alright. So this isn't a priority.
1xBack Door Camera to capture people walking in and out of door.
2xField of Vision on corners of the house watching back yard
2xField of Vision covering the front yard from corners of house
2xTracking and Zoom Cameras in front and back to watch any movement (possibly 2 in front)
1xInside a tool Shed
1xinside the Garage
1xInside the living room
1xinside kitchen
NVR - How much video will get saved with 12+ cameras on

Figured I should say exactly what I need before I go and spend $1,000 on 3 cameras and the NVR. Oh also, what size storage does that NVR have? I didn't see it in the specs, would I need a better one for 12+ cameras?
 
Your budget should be fine. Just don’t add the expensive ($1600+ea) PTZs I showed you. When time comes there are others that will do the basic job for $500-$600
 
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bigredfish said:
Your budget should be fine. Just don’t add the expensive ($1600+ea) PTZs I showed you. When time comes there are others that will do the basic job for $500-$600
Click to expand...
I'm tempted to just buy the box and 1 of the $1,600 cameras.

Nah, I won't do that. I will look into starting out with the box and 1 camera, and then when ever I have the funds I will add another $500+ camera. Should be able to get a few up and running by the end of the year. Just having 24/7 auto zoom/tracking would be nice on 1 camera. Then i will probably add another one in the back yard, then another in the front. After that I can add 2 wides in the front and 2 wides in the back. Full blown survelience system is a go.

Thank you so much for all the help!
 
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Timboo said:
Yep, I am aware they are hardwire and have some experience with fishing cables through the walls, so I will make placements that give me this ability.

I added the NVR from empire tech to the cart, the T54IR-ZE cameras also look at what I want. I will probably just start with a few of those and scrap the crap from ADT... or just keep it onling till it doesn't work anymore. I already canceled with them several months ago and they send me bills but I don't pay them. Everything still works and I own the equipment so it isn't on lease or anything. At this point I won't care if it works with the new system or not, just want to start over with something that I control and can utilize here, or take with me somewhere else without having to buy all new equipment... as I have had to do 2 times already.

Dang, you all should get commisions on all the recommendations. I definetly will be sending people here who want to know about cameras and a security system. I am blessed to have found this forum and will definetly keep tabs on it. Y'all all know your stuff and it helps me make an informed decission.

Thank you.


Awww, I was hopeful that you all got paid a little bit for the effort you are putting into this site. Major props to everyone here that helped out because I was soooo super lost before I found this forum and now I actually have an idea of what I need and what to do.

I plan on fishing cables through the walls so I don't have to worry about charging a battery, or the camera losing power during a critical moment. I have some expirience with fishing wires through the walls and have a compitent electrical experience to back up the work needed.

The mounts seem alright, are they sold seperatly? Not that it matters, just never seen the mounts advertised seperatly.

Definetly pure copper, CCA is garbage. I have a 2GB Mirrored connection at my home for computers and what not so I definetly understand the importance of the pure copper aspect. If you have a recommendation for the cable I will need for the T54IR-ZE Cameras, I would be open to check it out.



Ah, copy that. I will check out the 16ch and look for the upgrades. After everything is fleshed out I plan on having 4 cameras in the front, 3-4 in the back, 2 inside, 1 in the garage, 1 in the workshop. So 10-12 cameras total would mean I need more than an 8ch anyway.

To start with I am thinking 4 cameras, 2 in front 1 in back, and 1 inside would be the best option. I've been looking at the T54IR-ZE from the comment above and I could do 3 of those and the NVR to start and then order more as the funds are available.

Thanks again for all the information and I will definetly make sure what I am getting is what I need/will work....


Ohhh, someone before asked me for specs exactly what I need.... here is a list: (12-14ish total?) Not really set on the final set up. If I spend $5,000 on a good set up over the next 2 or 3 years I wouldn't be mad. Just wanna make sure I have everything on the house covered. The more I have covered and the better quality the safer my wife will feel while I am away.
1xFront Door Camera to capture faces and people at the front door, I have a google doorbell/camera at the moment and it seems to work alright. So this isn't a priority.
1xBack Door Camera to capture people walking in and out of door.
2xField of Vision on corners of the house watching back yard
2xField of Vision covering the front yard from corners of house
2xTracking and Zoom Cameras in front and back to watch any movement (possibly 2 in front)
1xInside a tool Shed
1xinside the Garage
1xInside the living room
1xinside kitchen
NVR - How much video will get saved with 12+ cameras on

Figured I should say exactly what I need before I go and spend $1,000 on 3 cameras and the NVR. Oh also, what size storage does that NVR have? I didn't see it in the specs, would I need a better one for 12+ cameras?
Click to expand...

This is a hobby for most of us and for me, I came here after spending more money that I care to add up on cameras that just were not cutting it.

I came across this site and learned the importance of things like don't chase MP, shutter speed is more important than FPS, digital zoom only works in Hollywood, 2.8mm wide angle cameras are not always the right choice, etc. and have slowly built up my system to a very robust system that costs less than many camera systems from either a monthly subscription or all-in-one box kits.

So I enjoy giving back to the site that helped get me away from the junk stuff that is out there.
 
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bigredfish said:
The box (NVR)
It’s only $30 difference between the 8ch and 16ch and even if you don’t use the extra channels there are benefits in capabilities and horsepower

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech NVR16CH-16P-2AI 16 Channels 1U 16PoE 2HDD Network Video Rec

Multiple decoding formats Support AcuPick with Max. 16-Channel Support N+M cluster AI by recorder AI by camera Security baseline 2.3
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
Click to expand...
What do you think about these?

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

4MP, 1/1.8" CMOS Powerful 25x optical zoom Starlight+ Technology Max. 25/30fps@4MP IR distance up to 150 m Deep-learning-based perimeter protection Auto-tracking and IVS PoE+ IP67, IK10
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com

Since I already havea working wide angle system, I was thinking buying 1 of these and the NVR would be a good idea.
wittaj said:
This is a hobby for most of us and for me, I came here after spending more money that I care to add up on cameras that just were not cutting it.

I came across this site and learned the importance of things like don't chase MP, shutter speed is more important than FPS, digital zoom only works in Hollywood, 2.8mm wide angle cameras are not always the right choice, etc. and have slowly built up my system to a very robust system that costs less than many camera systems from either a monthly subscription or all-in-one box kits.

So I enjoy giving back to the site that helped get me away from the junk stuff that is out there.
Click to expand...
Heck yes! That is the way to go! Thank you so much for being a part of this website. By your status I am seeing that you have been around a while and helped a lot of people. What a pay back man!
Maybe I will stick around and learn for a while before I try to help anyone else ha!

Hey, what is your opinion?

I was looking at buying 1 of these with an NVR and setting it up just to play around with it. I alredy have the ADT wide angles set up and working so I might as well shoot for something on the high end to start with and then work my way out of the ADT. I would go for the 16ch NVR as well and then maybe just 1 of the camera below for now.
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

4MP, 1/1.8" CMOS Powerful 25x optical zoom Starlight+ Technology Max. 25/30fps@4MP IR distance up to 150 m Deep-learning-based perimeter protection Auto-tracking and IVS PoE+ IP67, IK10
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com

After funds are available I was thinking to add another one from the link above. Then add something like this:
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3: 4MP Starlight IR Vari-Focal Network Camera

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS image sensor, low luminance, and high definition image. Outputs max. 4MP (2688×1520) @25/30 fps. Built-in IR LED, and the max. illumination distance is 40 m. ROI, SVC, AI H.264/H.265, encoding after filter, flexible coding, applicable to various bandwidth and storage...
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com

I would probably be able to afford the 6 pack in a month or 2 and if I already had the wiring, NVR, and 1 camera working. It would be a lot easier to set up the other 6. I think that would be the priority at the moment.

Would you agree the equipment is adequate? Don't worry, I don't expect anything to be 10,000% and I ain't picky. I usually blame myself and lack of knowledge is something isn't the way I wanted it.... just in this case, it is hard to understand everything and I have already messed up twice.


EDIT: I think this would be better then buying the cameras and NVR seperate. Anyone oppose? I'd get the 6pack and NVR
empiretech01.com

EmpireTech Kit3 8/16-Camera Capable NVR System with IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/

EmpireTech Kit3 is a safe and reliable NVR and Camera Security System. Free choice of NVR and camera models. Easily design a smart home.
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
 
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bigredfish said:
The 4 cam package and 16P NVR comes to $1155 and I think be a good starter kit.
Unfortunately the 16P NVR is temp sold out
Click to expand...
Awesome! Thank you!
The 6pack is not sold out thought for the 16P... and if I got the 6 pack I could get a nice start, but I would have to drop the NTZ. Meh, choices choices. Although, I could probably get the NTZ next paycheck if I got the 6 cams and 16p now. Hmmmmmmmmm.....

Hey the best thing I learned today is what I need/want and how I am going to structure the buying to keep it in budget and work out a really nice set up.

Thanks again!
 
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