Recommendation Needed: 30x Optical Zoom

M

mkjr75

n3wb
Nov 10, 2022
20
1
United States
I have a small BI setup with only 3 cameras.
One of my cameras is shooting the end of my driveway which is approximately 400ft away from the camera.

I'm currently using this device: Amazon.com
I'd say that I'm mildly pleased with it. It was cheap and a good way to see if the size camera would work for my application. I consistently get 15fps at 2MP on the main stream.
The built in IR light works reasonably well for my needs but it doesn't quite shoot where the camera is aimed at about 90% zoom.

Now that it's been about 2 years with it, I feel it is time for an upgrade. I've recently started having trouble with the main and sub streams getting out of sync which creates interesting problems in BI.
I think by tweaking the bitrates I've got that somewhat under control but I'd like something with better clarity if it comes at a reasonable price.

I'm not familiar with any of the major manufacturers offerings at this level of device. I'm hoping someone has some experience with a device with this kind of range and can provide their experiences, good or bad.

I'd like to keep the PTZ (although not a dealbreaker) and IR if possible. I'm not sure I could get permission for a big IR light.
Thanks in advance,
Mike
 
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Empiretech is made by Dahua...and is Dahua OEM (dahua without the logo)

Amcrest is made by Dahua....but is a consumer line with less than ideal MP/sensor and cheaper materials.

That Amcrest is on a sensor designed for 2MP so it will perform poorly at night. You are paying a premium for the Amcrest name dropped to it. A comparable Empiretech would be almost half that price.

The Empiretech linked above, while a little more expensive, will run circles around the amcrest as it is on the ideal MP/sensor ratio.
 
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Do not be deceived by the optical zoom numbers. Dahua and Empire Tec provide the focal length which is used to determine the optical zoom. A good example is on the PTZ5A-25X that looney2ns mentioned above. It provides 5.4mm-135mm vari-focal which equates to 25X optical. Most of the cheaper cameras only provide an enticing number which is deceiving. Then they add a "digital zoom" which is worthless. You can get that within BI.
I took a couple quick pics as an example. I used an older Empire Tec 25x camera at 250 yards and an unknown name 30x Chinese camera focused on the same area from 240 yards. It was raining so quality is not good but will show how the 25x out zooms the 30x. The top photo is from the 30x and both are fully zoomed.
30x240yds.JPG25x250yds.JPG
 
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So I just purchased this camera. Except on the site for $60 more I opted for the 8MP 4K version.
After some research (I have not yet received the camera - should be here today), the 4K may not have been a good choice.
Can anyone confirm? If the quality is not great, can I step it down to 4MP and recover the quality?
I'm using this to capture the end of my driveway, 400ft away from the camera.
 
Sadly you made a mistake....and at 400 feet at night...It is why we say chase sensor size and not MP. More MP is not better if it is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio. 8MP on thee ideal MP/sensor ratio goes for $2k.

Downrezing a camera does not work - It is still using the 8 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 8MP to 4MP. The sensor still needs 2 times the light going from 8MP to 4MP, so the native 4MP camera will result in a better image at night. The firmware will make some algorithm attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image, but if there is a concern that the 8MP isn't performing or wouldn't perform well at night, then it is better to go with the 4MP.

I have a 4MP and 2MP on the same 1/2.8" sensor and the picture quality is quite different between the two and the 2MP kicks it's butt at night.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

My 2MP cameras outperform my neighbors 4K (8MP) cameras....why....because they are both on the same size sensor.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system but mine. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 8MP system provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night.

My neighbor tried the "I will just downrez the 8MP to 2MP" and the image was a soft dark mess.

His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from Andy based on my recommendation and seeing my results. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras and he cannot figure out why downrezing from 8MP to 2MP doesn't work properly... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location and downrezing doesn't change the physics of the camera.
 
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Thanks for that explanation. I believe it's on the same sensor. To be clear, I purchased the PTZ5A4K-25X.
Does anyone have experience returning/exchanging these?
 
Broachoski said:
Do not be deceived by the optical zoom numbers. Dahua and Empire Tec provide the focal length which is used to determine the optical zoom. A good example is on the PTZ5A-25X that looney2ns mentioned above. It provides 5.4mm-135mm vari-focal which equates to 25X optical. Most of the cheaper cameras only provide an enticing number which is deceiving. Then they add a "digital zoom" which is worthless. You can get that within BI.
I took a couple quick pics as an example. I used an older Empire Tec 25x camera at 250 yards and an unknown name 30x Chinese camera focused on the same area from 240 yards. It was raining so quality is not good but will show how the 25x out zooms the 30x. The top photo is from the 30x and both are fully zoomed.
View attachment 206393View attachment 206392
Click to expand...
While your point may be true your example is misleading; nothing about that is the same area. Not from trees/stumps to fence posts to elevation of truck above/behind hill line.
 
mkjr75 said:
Thanks for that explanation. I believe it's on the same sensor. To be clear, I purchased the PTZ5A4K-25X.
Click to expand...
The 2 cameras don't use the "same" sensor. They use different sensors that are approximately the same physical size, with one having more and smaller pixels than the other. Smaller pixel = less light to gather. When I ran a 4MP 5442 and 8MP 5842 side-by-side, I was pleasantly surprised that the 5842 had only a slight low light sensitivity deficit compared to the 5442. Both of these cameras have 1/1/8 sensors, which may or may not be the same 1/1.8 sensors used in the zoom cameras. The sensitivity spec differences between the 5442 and 5842 are slight, and the explanation might be that the 5842 has a lower f-stop lens than the 5442. Specs-wise, it's a whole different story with the two zoom cameras, with a quite large difference in the light sensitivity, and both using a f1.6 lens. I'm always skeptical of the sensitivity specs, and for me the only way to know for sure is side-by-side testing. But based on specs you can expect a better low light image from the 4MP camera, and sharper daytime image from the 8MP camera. You have to decide which is more important.
 
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Underhill said:
While your point may be true your example is misleading; nothing about that is the same area. Not from trees/stumps to fence posts to elevation of truck above/behind hill line.
Click to expand...
I noticed the same thing and "assumed" that both cameras were at their maximum optical zoom, which is less than 30x in the chinese market camera. Since I'm very good at making bad assumptions, a clarification would be helpful :).
 
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