Recommended or current popular cameras

[danletkeman]

With so many camera options, which are the models/brands that people are the most happy with? My current need is for coverage of a large open outdoor area with a few buildings that have 16' to 18' high walls and some areas of very low light and some areas that are lit all the time. Roughly 500,000 sq feet with the longest shot being around 300ft. I know 300ft is a long ways and I will be installing some light posts at some point in time.

My goal would be to have good low light coverage, good to excellent resolution, reliable cold weather features, mostly fixed units with 2.8mm or 4mm lenses, CMOS sensors that are better for low light.

*I am not looking for system design recommendations at this point, only hardware recommendations.

 

[wittaj]

If you haven't seen this thread, it lists the commonly recommended cameras based on distance to IDENTIFY. These represent the best overall cameras in terms of price, performance day and night, and reliability.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[The Automation Guy]

To further want wittaj pointed out, you need to learn about DORI and what it means when it comes to camera coverage. In a perfect situation, a camera with a 2.8mm lens might have a max "identify" distance of about 20-25' (depending on model). At night that distance will drop even further. A 4mm camera will extend that distance out farther (perhaps 40' max in perfect conditions), but still is very limited and will of course come at the expense of a more narrow field of view (it covers less area because it is "zoomed" in further)

Long story short, you are going to prioritize your needs and plan out a camera system according to what areas are really important to cover and which are not - what areas you need to be able to identify a subject and what areas you simply want to "observe" people in (but have no expectation of the footage being good enough to even recognize someone). Simply throwing up a few 2.8mm or 4mm cameras and expecting the system to cover that large an area simply isn't going to work. You won't be able to "detect" that some one is 300' away with even a 4mm camera.

We can of course help with that planning process, but you'll have to determine what your goals are. Some examples might be, "I need to be able to identify people in this parking area 40' away, I need to observe people in this area of my yard up to 100' away, I need to identify someone at a building 200' away, I need to identify people within 20' of my main structure, I need to capture license plates 150' away on this road/driveway, etc, etc, etc". If you can provide a satellite view of the properly with an accurate distance scale and your specific goals, we can help determine what cameras might be appropriate to meet your specific goals.

 

[danletkeman]

To further want wittaj pointed out, you need to learn about DORI and what it means when it comes to camera coverage. In a perfect situation, a camera with a 2.8mm lens might have a max "identify" distance of about 20-30' (depending on model). At night that distance will drop even further. A 4mm camera will extend that distance out farther, but I bet it still falls well short of 50' (and at the expense of a more narrow field of view) even in perfect conditions.

Long story short, you are going to prioritize your needs and plan out a camera system according to what areas are really important to cover and which are not - what areas you need to be able to identify a subject and what areas you simply want to "observe" people in (but have no expectation of the footage being good enough to even recognize someone). Simply throwing up a few 2.8mm or 4mm cameras and expecting the system to cover that large an area simply isn't going to work. You won't even be able to "detect" that some one is 300' away with even a 4mm camera.

Yes, this is part of what I am working on and I know you can't just change the focal length to improve recognition. I wouldn't expect to recognize anyone from those long ranges and the only person recognition will happen close to the buildings near the doors. Most of the coverage areas outside would be around 50-100' and the primary goal would be to recognize vehicles and machinery, not persons. I have a 2.8mm camera on my personal residence and I can clearly see my neighbors at 100', but not recognize any faces. At this location I would have to install dozens of posts in the middle of the lots to have person recognition which is not a viable solution.

Anyways, the goal of this thread is not to design the system, but to find out what cameras people are happy with in terms of night time visibility, clarity and reliability.

 

[Flintstone61]

I’m happiest with my 5442-z4 bullet cam. quite versatile, good medium to longer range image quality, If use them in B&W at night with iR i can make out plates at 80-120 feet.

 

[The Automation Guy]

Yes, this is part of what I am working on and I know you can't just change the focal length to improve recognition. I wouldn't expect to recognize anyone from those long ranges and the only person recognition will happen close to the buildings near the doors. Most of the coverage areas outside would be around 50-100' and the primary goal would be to recognize vehicles and machinery, not persons. I have a 2.8mm camera on my personal residence and I can clearly see my neighbors at 100', but not recognize any faces. At this location I would have to install dozens of posts in the middle of the lots to have person recognition which is not a viable solution.

Anyways, the goal of this thread is not to design the system, but to find out what cameras people are happy with in terms of night time visibility, clarity and reliability.

I'm bad about editing my posts.... check my post again as I did so while you were also posting your reply.

As far as camera recommendations, for something generic look at the second post in wattaj's linked thread. Outside of that, we have to have some idea to your goals in order to be able to recommend anything. Obviously the camera required to identify someone 15' away is very different than one required to identify someone at 50' or 100' or 200'. Your initial posts says you want to cover an 500,000 sq ft area with distances out to 300'. That is an impossible task given the information you have provided so far.

It's about the same as me saying, "I'm on Lake Superior and would like a boat to use on it. I'm thinking about getting one with a paddle or a oar. What brand/model boat to you suggest". Without any context to my real goal, it's impossible to make any recommendations. If I tell you I want to cross the lake in this boat, your recommendations are going to be very different than if I said I just want to access the water while playing on a beach.

Using a 2.8mm or 4mm camera in your situation is like playing on the beach of Lake Superior with a stand up paddleboard. We can make some specific paddleboard recommendations if it fits your ultimate goal. But if your goal is to cross the lake (and it sounds like it is based on the information you provided in your last post), our recommendations are going to be very different.

 

[danletkeman]

I'm bad about editing my posts.... check my post again as I did so while you were also posting your reply.

As far as camera recommendations, for something generic look at the second post in wattaj's linked thread. Outside of that, we have to have some idea to your goals in order to be able to recommend anything. Obviously the camera required to identify someone 15' away is very different than one required to identify someone at 50' or 100' or 200'. Your initial posts says you want to cover an 500,000 sq ft area with distances out to 300'. That is an impossible task given the information you have provided so far.

It's about the same as me saying, "I'm on Lake Superior and would like a boat to use on it. I'm thinking about getting one with a paddle or a oar. What brand/model boat to you suggest". Can you use a boat with a paddle or oar on Lake Superior? Yes of course. But if I expect to cross the lake in this boat, your recommendations are going to be different than if I said I just want to access the water while playing on a beach.

Ya, I would never think to go back and read a post thinking it was edited.

I don't need to nor would it be feasibly possible to have person recognition over 500,000 sq feet. Vehicle and machinery recognition within reason is all I am looking for. And if the longer distance coverage areas only give me the ability to see that a vehicle is in the area that is fine as well. I will focus my shorter shots where most of the action is at.

Again, the goal of this thread is not to design the system. Just looking for camera recommendations. I don't care if the recommendation is for a close range low light or far range mid light use, I can figure that out as I plan where they will go.

 

[Flintstone61]

Also pleasantly Surprised with my 6mm 5442 6MM turret cam in a parking lot for identifying lurking cars both day and night. Used in concert with a 5442-ZE turret and a Hikvision 2MP PTZ i have eyes out in the entire parlling lot with overlapping coverage. ( cams watching cams)
My next favorite are the 3241-ZAS turrets with great low light vision, for closer in coverage. in the darkness of night i can run in color with a 9w LED carriage light on at the garage. Although I think the 5442 -3.6 MM might work here as well. I'm a big fan of Varifocal as you can see.

 

[Flintstone61]

I would like to play around with a 8 mEgapixel turret camera over the driveway at some point since I have enough light.

 

[looney2ns]

Any of the Dahua 5442 series cams are good choices.
Plus if you need longer distance the Review-Dahua IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E AI Varifocal Bullet | IP Cam Talk works well.
Camera Suggestions

 

[Sammyf]

Apart from 5442 series I also like the T5449H-ASE-D2. It gives nice ability to see color, but also to fill the picture with IR and avoid the need to use white light. The downside is the sort of short sharp area in the picture (see review to see, if it fits your needs).

 

[mat200]

With so many camera options, which are the models/brands that people are the most happy with? My current need is for coverage of a large open outdoor area with a few buildings that have 16' to 18' high walls and some areas of very low light and some areas that are lit all the time. Roughly 500,000 sq feet with the longest shot being around 300ft. I know 300ft is a long ways and I will be installing some light posts at some point in time.

My goal would be to have good low light coverage, good to excellent resolution, reliable cold weather features, mostly fixed units with 2.8mm or 4mm lenses, CMOS sensors that are better for low light.

*I am not looking for system design recommendations at this point, only hardware recommendations.

"coverage of a large open outdoor area with a few buildings that have 16' to 18' high walls "
"Roughly 500,000 sq feet with the longest shot being around 300ft"
"reliable cold weather features, mostly fixed units with 2.8mm or 4mm lenses, CMOS sensors that are better for low light."

If you do not have national defense restrictions, I would look at Hikvision or Dahua OEM cameras. I would have them on their own LAN .. isolated from the rest of your network as best as possible.

In general I would only use 2.8mm lens for cameras which the subject will be near the camera .. example by the entrances .. about face level .. or by the entrance for cars / people coming in on the property.

For 4MP cameras look for sensor chips around 1/1.8" and for 8MP cameras look for sensor chips around 1/1.2" ( do not go smaller if you need low light performance )

All other areas I would try to put lenses which give tigher FOVs to increase DORI ranges.

Note see the DORI ranges in the cliff notes .. and iirc there are a few sites which you can test placements ( IPVM has a calculator for example .. )

 

[Barboots]

As a beginner, I can't stress enough how beneficial it was having a few Varifocal cams in my initial order.

 

[Sammyf]

As a beginner, I can't stress enough how beneficial it was having a few Varifocal cams in my initial order.

I think this is very important point. I’d like to add a point of view for the battle between getting varifocal or fixed lens camera. The difference in performance (mostly by fixed lens version having wider aperture and better optis for low light scenarios) can be seen on reviews in this forum, but most don‘t see the differences as dealbreaker.

With the 5442 series I only have one with fixed lens and several varifocals, I also got one varifocal for testing the fields of views first. However, I only bought the fixed lens to a spot, where I knew I’d want to have as wide field of view as possible (and I’m ok with short DORI distance).
For the rest I thought like this:
1) Varifocal is sometimes needed to get longer DORI (especially identify was important), so it might be necessary to get one.
2) Even if not necessarily needed, the zoom gives the option to tune in the field of view optically.
3) The price difference between fixed lens turret and varifocal (ZE) turret is roughly 25 usd. So I would have to buy 6 cams with fixed lens to get the 7th cam with the money saved by not buying varifocals. But my plan for the system was mixed with wedge domes, active deterrence and 5442 turrets, so it would be unlikely that I would have need for 7 cameras (from 5442 series) with fixed lenses. Also, varifocal gives more flexibility for the instal location (as you can partly compensate the distance with the zoom). If I went with fixed lens cams, but wasn’t happy with it and had to replace a fixed focal with varifocal, I would end up spending more money for a whole new camera. So I saw it as better option to spend up front the 25 bucks more per cam than have to buy later a whole new cam. Though cams can also be relocated sometimes, but I was seeking for performance/price ratio to stay reasonable.
4) I cannot watch the next property through my cams, so it is better in some installation locations to get tighter fields of view than waste the picture area for privacy masking.