Reolink? (Just kidding)

[PaulOTron]

Hi folks,

Apparently I'm not allowed to delete my post, which I posted as soon as I realized I had made a poor decision to buy a Reolink system. I asked a lot of naive questions that were probably "too dumb to ask".

Since I can't delete it, this post is completely rewritten.

Please forgive this little rant: I've noticed that it seems for a lot of members of this forum, IP cameras are a "hobby". I like technology, but frankly I don't have time for my security system to be a hobby, or to spend a lot of work and research to get it working. I want to buy it, install it, and then forget about it unless something interesting happens.

It kinda seems to me the security system market has some catching up to do. Nest and Arlo are selling like hotcakes right now because there are a lot of people like me. They want a system that "just works".

I bought Reolink system because it appeared to be what I needed: Buy it, install it, forgetaboutit! (And avoid monthly fees.) Well, that's what I got. It came with the cables. The hard disk was already formatted in the NVR, and it even came with stickers and a CD.

Yes, unfortunately, the software is glitchy and the cameras are disappointing, and I've learned there's no way around that because I can't really use the cameras with Blue Iris or similar due to unethical practices by Reolink. That's a big disappointment.

But now, starting from almost zero prior knowledge, I've put about 24 nonstop hours into researching to find the right cameras, the right NVR, what cables will work, whether each component or software will work with other components, which systems are reliable... and ya know what I realize?

Reolink works. It will deter the bad guys, and if it doesn't I'll have the footage I want. The cameras and software are disappointing, but I run a business and time is money. It's now clear whatever alternative I might find... something will need hours of troubleshooting. I can't afford that.

So, instead of finding better cameras, I'll add MORE cameras (spending less overall than a quality replacement system) so I can make out faces and license plates. From where I stand now, it's the cheaper solution in terms of money and time.

I think if the industry comes up with an affordable, simple, high quality "plug and play" security camera system with local recording to an NVR, (avoiding monthly fees) it could take a big chunk out of the niche that Nest and Arlo have tapped into. Those systems have drawbacks, but they do "just work".

Thanks for listening. I'm sure some will disagree.

 

[looney2ns]

It can be information overload when starting.
These cams:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
or
Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
Either would serve you well.

A lot of folks are very happy with this NVR: NVR5208/5216/5232-8P-4KS2 | Dahua Technology - Dahua Technology

I as a business owner as well, I have learned to do it right the first time is the most cost efficient.

You always have the option to hire a security cam company to install for you.

 

[bp2008]

It's not just the security camera industry, it's all markets. If your car breaks down you have 2 options, take it to a pro or fix it yourself. Fixing it yourself will be cheaper but will take time and research right? No different here. If you want to DIY anything you need to take the time to learn it or hire a pro. It's that simple.

Except in the security camera industry if you hire a pro there is a good chance you'll get the wrong kind of pro that installs coax in new installations and sticks with some overpriced brand like Axis just because that is what they used for the last 25 years.

 

[looney2ns]

Except in the security camera industry if you hire a pro there is a good chance you'll get the wrong kind of pro that installs coax in new installations and sticks with some overpriced brand like Axis just because that is what they used for the last 25 years.

Everything takes research if you give a darn what you are getting.

 

[PaulOTron]

If you want to DIY anything you need to take the time to learn it or hire a pro. It's that simple.

Actually that's exactly my point. You're right. But it doesn't HAVE to be that way. The homeowner who wants to keep the hamburglar away from his hamburgers isn't necessarily someone who knows what an IP address is, or wants to format hard drives and crimp cables. Sure, such a homeowner can spend a few thousand to hire a pro, but as someone else noted, that can be inconsistent.

All the components exist. There's no good reason I can't spend ~$1200 and get:

• 3 or 4 high quality POE cameras and included premade cables. (Maybe with my choice of 30, 60, 90, or 120 foot cables.)
• An NVR with a formatted drive already installed and 8 POE ports (Allowing easy expansion.)
• The cameras could even be already recognized by the NVR.
• The NVR should work with ANY USB mouse and keyboard.
  
• Maybe optionally for another ~$250, a small wall-mountable monitor with a touchscreen and a keyboard.

As such, you could plug all the components together on your living room floor, plug the NVR into a wall outlet and it would "just work"... and work well. Beyond the physical installation, the only thing left (which would be optional) would be remote phone viewing and the ability to view them on a home computer screen. This too should be simple: Plug the NVR into your router (using, yes, an included 5 foot cable), download the software, enter the code on the sticker of the NVR, and those things too would "just work".

With such a system, anyone who is competent enough to string cable and drill holes could install a quality system themselves in a single day. Put it in packaging reminiscent of Apple products... Like Nest and Arlo do.

And I see no reason POE cameras can't be added in a plug-and-play manner. Step 1: Plug. Step 2: Play. No step 3.

There was once a time that you couldn't drive unless you could work a clutch and operate the choke for your carburetor without flooding your engine. In short, it doesn't have to be like this.

 

[looney2ns]

The options are already out there.
Nelly's Security - The webs top source for New Security Cameras, Analog Surveillance Systems, and High Definition IP Systems. - Nelly's Security among many others, rebranded Hikvision
LaView HD IP Security Camera Systems & Surveillance rebranded hikvision
Lorex security cameras and security systems Rebranded Dahua.
Lots of others.

 

[bp2008]

Yes, as @looney2ns mentioned there are all-in-one kits that basically achieve what you describe. Some of us have trouble recommending them though as long as we see the cameras as being inferior to what you can buy individually (e.g. Dahua Starlight).

 

[PaulOTron]

Lots of others.

Well, yeah I know complete systems exist. I bought a Reolink system, remember? What I don't have is a way to distinguish quality from crap. When I bought, I was relying on Amazon reviews, which I've learned are either fake, or from people who have only ever used one system.

When I search THIS forum, (with a lot of reading so I would have confidence beyond "some guy who's only used one system says this is good") I get that the Starlight Varifocal turret camera is what I should have and that the NVR4208 would probably meet my needs. (I had done that work already by the time I threw up my hands.)

BUT... Then I had to research which hard drives to add to the NVR, and the difference between Cat5e and Cat6, and how to crimp cables, where to get the tool to crimp cables. And I have yet to find the best sources for these things. (I know... Andy. But he doesn't sell cables or hard drives or dish out software.)

So far so good, but now I'm like: "Okay if I get this NVR, how can I view the cameras on my computer? BlueIris is well-reviewed, but isn't that usually installed on a DIY NVR or can it work on a computer even if an NVR is present on the same network? (As the Reolink client does.) And whose phone app would I use?"

Knowledge that some people here may take for granted I simply don't have. And I'm not very confident that something won't be mismatched or require "surprise troubleshooting" since it's not all in one box. For example, people say crimping cables is easy, and maybe it is but I've never done it and I've had bad luck crimping other stuff with crappy tools. I still have to learn which colored wires go where.

In general on almost all forums of a technical nature, it's not uncommon to see people post: "Do your own research! This forum is FULL of information. We're not going to spoon feed you!" That's true this forum is rich with info, but it's really a lot of work and I'm still afraid I'll get something wrong.

Would it really be so offensive if there was a single thread here entitled: "Noobs: Here's the consensus for a complete quality, expandable starter system." It would list prices and sources for 4 port, 8 port POE systems including EVERYTHING. (Cables, hard drives, software, monitors, mice, even surveillance stickers.)

 

[actran]

@PaulOTron Alot of people here are normal folks like you. We too learn as we try things ourselves. We don't have all the answers.

And I don't think there is 1 right answer because there are so many user scenarios and permutations based on site location/quality expectations/budget/your technical-expertise. Nonetheless, there are a number of threads already for newbies (with sage advice).

For you, since you have experience already, just buy a Dahua starlight and try it out. The IPC-HDW5231R is what many of us recommend because it's the best overall security camera at this time (especially if nighttime footage is critical). The camera details are here: Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)

In parallel, try out BI on a tower PC. It can run in parallel with your existing NVR.

 

[PaulOTron]

Okay, I'll try a DIY system and I'll return my Reolink. I'm going to start a new thread as I've described... Hopefully other noobs will find it useful.

 

[actran]

@PaulOTron Here is a recent success story with Dahua starlight: Dahua I’m impressed

 

[mat200]

..
Would it really be so offensive if there was a single thread here entitled: "Noobs: Here's the consensus for a complete quality, expandable starter system." It would list prices and sources for 4 port, 8 port POE systems including EVERYTHING. (Cables, hard drives, software, monitors, mice, even surveillance stickers.)

Welcome @PaulOTron

Thanks for your points I found them interesting to read.

Note that the majority of us are simply here as fellow members, and share our time, experiences, and knowledge for fun.

Giomania and I have made a few notes which we've posted here to help others as a guide, hopefully you've already seen the references which thanks to Looney2ns and others we try to point people to whom we think would find them useful. You may have seen something like this already:

"Please check out @giomania 's notes:
Dahua Starlight Varifocal Turret (IPC-HDW5231R-Z)
Looking for some advice and direction!"

There's also other notes here intended to help those new to security cameras, such as the VPN notes.


I've also made notes elsewhere ( another forum ) which I have attempted to also help provide a guide for those new to security cameras, some sections of those notes I have cut and pasted here.

Making notes for those new to security cameras turns out to get rather long quickly, and then many of those new to the topic quickly state:
New user: "It's too much, too long, too much reading".
OK fine, so here's the executive summary: "Buy this"
Q: "What about this super cheap-o promise me everthing system for $100"
A: "No they are lying to us, it truly is crap"
Q: "What about this cheaper system... I can save some money and it's 1080N"
A: "No they are deceiving you, 1080N is a trick, the resolution is not what you expect - closer to 720p"
Q: "What about this Wire Free product... so I can not have to run cables"
A: "No, that will not be reliable..."
Q: "What about this cloud camera... "
A: "No, cloud is not reliable enough for a security camera system, what happens when their auth servers go offline... "
Q: "I really do not need super HD, 720p is fine, just like my cheap TV... "
Q: "On TV they were able to ID suspects 100 feet away with a 720p camera reflecting off a window..."
Q: "I need a wide view to see everything, and want ID suspects who may break into my car parked on the street at night.. "
Q: "I bought a new house for $800K and want to spend as little as possible for a security camera system... that is also an intercom system.. and an alarm system... "
A: argh!!
...

Honestly, there's so much to learn - and a lot of deception from vendors as well as distorted expectations due to TV shows.

Also, there is no one perfect system - certainly not at the price points most people want to pay.