Replaced HDW5442TMP-ASE by HFW3849T1P

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Hello everybody!

I replaced my favourite camera HDW5442TMP-ASE with new HFW3849T1P and I came accorss that HDW5442TMP-ASE has much better picture than newer one.
I replaced it because HFW3849T1P 8MP instead of HDW5442TMP-ASE 5Mp and HFW3849T1P is TIOC (three in one camera).
I didn't expect so much difference in image quality speacialy in the night.
I can't understand how it is possible?
 

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The first color photo is HFW3849T1P photo.
 

wittaj

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Bad choice in replacement as it is a horrible MP/sensor combination.

That 3849 is an 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor compared to the 5442 on a larger 1/1.8" sensor.

It needs a ton more light than the 5442 - more than 4 times and possibly 6 or 8 times more (would have to do the math on sensor size differences). So yeah at night the differences will be extreme.

The 4MP version TIOC will blow the 3849 away. This 4MP is on the same sensor and CPU as a 2MP non TIOC camera and there are many threads here showing how underperforming that 3849 is.

Unfortunately for you, this is a great example demonstrating why so many here say to chase sensor size and not MP.
 
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nelgnl

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See specs of both camera's: 0,007 Lux vs 0,002 Lux for full color. That explains the difference in quality.
 

user8963

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i dont see a real comparison...

who compares BW(with IR light on) to color ??? force 5442 to color... add motion... thats a comparison

from picture there is no external light... so what do you expect ?
 

CCTVCam

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I'd generally say stick to the best tested cameras if your budget allows. Members test a wide range of cameras on here but always there are 1 or 2 "go to" cameras. They're go to for a reason. If you can afford them, always buy the go to's. That way you ensure you're getting the best at a reasonable budget.
 

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I'd generally say stick to the best tested cameras if your budget allows. Members test a wide range of cameras on here but always there are 1 or 2 "go to" cameras. They're go to for a reason. If you can afford them, always buy the go to's. That way you ensure you're getting the best at a reasonable budget.
Thank you for response.
My budget allows me almost any camera but the camera price should be price reasonable.
I want to see for what I pay extra money.

The 3849 is the newest cameras with TIOC support technology so I bought it.

I don't undestand why this camera has worse daylight pictures than old 5442.
So I'm here for help.
 

user8963

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newest cameras with TIOC support technology
this is the downside from all in one solutions... all active deterrence cameras has no good sensors. also true for hikvision.. they use 8MP 1/2.8" , 4MP 1/2.7", 4MP 1/3.0" and 5MP 1/2.7" ......

I don't undestand why this camera has worse daylight pictures than old 5442.
maybe you can tweak around with settings... maybe one camera is out of focus ?
so i assume you are running both in auto mode ?

TIOC support technology
why do you need this ? Maybe you can use a camera with alarm input/output and a cheap relay modul ???
 
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CCTVCam

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Thank you for response.
My budget allows me almost any camera but the camera price should be price reasonable.
I want to see for what I pay extra money.

The 3849 is the newest cameras with TIOC support technology so I bought it.

I don't undestand why this camera has worse daylight pictures than old 5442.
So I'm here for help.

The current go to's:




and on 2mp the 5442 you already have.

The advantage of the 2 above is 4mp resolution giving better day whilst still enabling full colour at night. 5442probably still has the nightime edge but if it were my money, there's only 2 to choose from atm. Others may disagree though and be aware being new there are still some firmware issues, limited lens options and turret only format.
 

user8963

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The current go to's:
1. both are not active deterrence
2. dahua camera cannot link LEDs to motion, so they have to stay on the whole night (or you have external white light)
3. hikvision can link LEDs to motion, but all models are already EOL and new G5 firmware is buggy as hell. review is from G3 platform, so you cannot compare it to G5
 

wittaj

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The 3849 is the newest cameras with TIOC support technology so I bought it.

I don't undestand why this camera has worse daylight pictures than old 5442.
So I'm here for help.
Um I told you why in Post #4....

That 3849 is an 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor compared to the 5442 on a larger 1/1.8" sensor. When you place 8MP on a sensor for a 2MP camera, this is what you get.

The 4MP version TIOC will blow the 3849 away. This 8MP is on the same sensor and CPU as a 2MP non TIOC camera and there are many threads here showing how underperforming that 3849 is. It is simply underpowered and cannot do what it claims to do. They had to limit bitrate and other things to fit it on that combination and it suffers because of it.

In my opinion the 3849 should not be sold with that current MP/sensor and CPU combination, but alas everybody wants 4k.

Your picture looks better than most that have come here complaining about that camera.

You need to decide what you want - active deterrence or good picture quality... I use mine as overview cameras that are overlapped by other cameras.

Here are the other threads I mentioned talking about how crappy that camera is:


 

CCTVCam

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1. both are not active deterrence
2. dahua camera cannot link LEDs to motion, so they have to stay on the whole night (or you have external white light)
3. hikvision can link LEDs to motion, but all models are already EOL and new G5 firmware is buggy as hell. review is from G3 platform, so you cannot compare it to G5
If you put flashy lights above utlimate picture quality, then go TIOC for all your cameras. If not, consider the Go To's and TIOC maybe for a single location where no-one should ever be and scaring them off becomes a number 1 priority.

I have a single TIOC myself and intend to keep it. In my situation it's ideal for my backyard because if anyone's back there, they're only there for one reason, to gain entry in which case scaring them off becomes the priority, not least of which because hopefully any other cameras I have will have already captured the money shot with TIOC being more of an overview. I also have an all night low wattage LED bulb back there (6w) backed up by 2 led floodlights on a motion sensor that stay on for a couple of minutes when triggered, plus the inbuilt leds should I choose to enable them, so plenty of lighting should something happen. That should ensure a decent picture alebit not one as good as the go to's. I also intend to time delay the TIOC alarm to allow the camers to record some footage untainted 1st.

For all other locations I might want to put a camera, it will be one of the "go to" cameras to prioritise picture over bells and whistles. Be aware once the flashing lights do go off, the picture will likely be degraded and colour tinted by the lights. I did a tongue in cheek review a while ago on here and whilst it has a tongue in cheek element, it nevertheless conveys the main points about the camera.

This video (not mine) at 1 mins shows how TIOC#s flashing lights can degrade the picture in a low light situation once triggered (see @ 1.00 mins):




TIOC serve a purpose and would certainly be within my armoury, but my primary choice of camera for all locations, no.

You can add extras such as microphones to some other cameras although I suggest you check the thread on these subjects for indivudal model compatability and how to's.

You have to ask yourself, if this guy is damaging your car (it would appear to be a grudge for some reason), do you want to scare him off only to possibly have him come back in a ski mask from then on, or do you want to best quality pictures of him for evidence?

One compromise way around this would be have the 2 crossed cameras suggested before and have 1TIOC and 1 Go To and delay the deterrence on the TIOC to enable both cameras to get an unaldulterated picture. Put the Go To on the side he normally walks towards to ensure the facial pic. It's still not ideal as the flashing lights may degrade the 2nd camera, but a reasonable compromise.

One final point, if you set up alerts on your phone that will wake you to any detection, you can trigger the TIOC alarm manually if needed from the interface. Personally I'd either do this or add a delay to enable the cameras to catch a good facial picture before the TIOC features trigger. TIOC are certainly useful but have to be used with an understanding of what you're getting picture quality wise with the smaller sensor and the effect the deterence features can have on the quality. I have one and will use it, but understanding of how best to deploy these is the key.
 
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Um I told you why in Post #4....

That 3849 is an 8MP on a 1/2.8" sensor compared to the 5442 on a larger 1/1.8" sensor. When you place 8MP on a sensor for a 2MP camera, this is what you get.

The 4MP version TIOC will blow the 3849 away. This 8MP is on the same sensor and CPU as a 2MP non TIOC camera and there are many threads here showing how underperforming that 3849 is. It is simply underpowered and cannot do what it claims to do. They had to limit bitrate and other things to fit it on that combination and it suffers because of it.
It sounds right but I have also installed HFW2831T-ZAS-S2 camera .
It has the same sensor 1/2.7" and it is also 8mp and the same max apperture.
I uploaded the pictures of 2831 and 3849.
In my opition the picture of 2821 is much better.
 

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In addition to the focus ability, it is also not trying to also do active deterrence.

People forget these cameras have a CPU in them and are only capable of doing so much before they struggle. Your 2831 is in the lite series which means they stripped capabilities to allow it to somewhat work, but the TIOC is trying to do too much on the CPU.

Think of these two cameras as a 4-door door sedan. Both have the same engine. Adding active deterrence is like adding a trailer to tow. Sure the sedan may be able to tow it downhill and flat, but will struggle going uphill.

Same with the camera. In addition to a horrible MP/sensor ratio to start with, it's placed on an underpowered CPU.

Using the towing analogy, 8MP is like a camper and the CPU is the vehicle - are you going to want to tow it with a 4 door sedan or a powerful pickup?

8MP on 1/2.8" sensor means they cut corners to make it affordable....
 

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Think of these two cameras as a 4-door door sedan. Both have the same engine. Adding active deterrence is like adding a trailer to tow. Sure the sedan may be able to tow it downhill and flat, but will struggle going uphill.
Thank for clear explanation.

Now I don't know what to do with 3849.
I was planing to buy serveral such cameras because I liked proactive defense with intergraded alarm function and possibily to intercom with intruder.

I bought this camera because I saw the youtube channel of Anton Samborskyi and I liked TIOC functionality.

Now I think about to replace back the 3849 with old one 5442 .

My mistake was the I thought what LED of 3849 camera can light enough for absolutely dark place.

In face the LED is very poor.

I integrated 5442 using alarm out with external flasher and it works very good.
 

Arjun

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Stop chasing megapixels unless it is accompanied by a damn good sensor
1/2.8" sensor pales in comparison to the 4mp 1/1.8" sensor
 

wittaj

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Are you able to return it? If not, make it an overview similar to what @CCTVCam has done.

Many think that the active deterrence cameras are gimmicky. I find them as another tool in the toolbox or I wouldn’t have 3 of them.

I like that they can basically be two-way talk; many people may be scared away once the automated alarm or voice-over turns on; and with Blue Iris, I have cameras on the side of the house trigger these alarms before they make it all the way around the house.

The camera will work with just its white light, but the coverage zone is fairly small then unless you run slower shutter speeds, but then you get a lot of motion blur.

The LEDs on cameras are kinda gimmicky - you need way more light for the tiny sensors in these cameras. And if you do not have ambient light, then the LEDs need to be on for the camera to see. They are not motion detected. They are kinda like the LED on your cell phone - how far out and bright is it really to get a good photo of someone not moving.... Go with true flood lights or a camera that can go into B/W IR if needed.

ALL cameras need light at night. Simple physics. Marketing a camera as low light and full color doesn't change that fact. As some folks are finding out, some of these cameras play with parameters that make them look nice and bright at night, but when there is motion, it is a complete blur and ghosting. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight by adjusting the parameters and make it look great as a still picture, but as soon as motion is introduced, it is blur and ghost city. How many perps will stop for 5 seconds so that your camera can get a clean shot of them...

Unless you know you have enough ambient light, go with a camera that can see infrared. The full color type cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add external IR later.

The exception is the new Dahua 4k on the 1/1.2" sensor - I am shocked how well that performs with just the LED light. But it also costs about $100 more than the other LED full color cams out there.

If you require one camera to do both, then go with the 4MP version TIOC.
 
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