copland
n3wb
I ordered 2 of the 5231's and I couldn't move them with both hands when they were locked in place.
Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+
- Thread starter looney2ns
- Start date
Hey everyone, I'm puzzled by some of the feedback being left here for the 4mp Starlight turrets. I've uploaded five videos to a folder on my Google Drive; I think everyone should have a look. I compare this model (mentioned in this thread) with the 4mp Starlight LED, and 2mp Starlight (4231 turret) models. You'll notice I try both set screws (Dahua-provided and replacement set screws from the hardware store). In some instances, a replacement set screw solves the problem (as seen in the 4mp Starlight turret LED model). In other instances, it does not. The 2mp turret (proven and popular model) does not exhibit any of these issues (tried with both types of set screws).
Somehow, there is some sweet spot when locking down the base. It takes a lot of fiddling around. A tight and secured base for this camera instills confidence. I'm not sure how clients will feel if they see a potentially so-called half-baked job with cameras being able to be manipulated while already being mounted and "tightened" Its easy to move the camera ball left-to-right and vice versa
The solution I posted earlier (using Velcro) doesn't always work; it will vary from unit to unit. However, the velcro can serve as a redundancy / precaution to prevent further modification to orientation of the camera.
In the videos, not the following:
Green allen key set is for torx
Yellow allen key set is for hex
drive.google.com
Somehow, there is some sweet spot when locking down the base. It takes a lot of fiddling around. A tight and secured base for this camera instills confidence. I'm not sure how clients will feel if they see a potentially so-called half-baked job with cameras being able to be manipulated while already being mounted and "tightened" Its easy to move the camera ball left-to-right and vice versa
The solution I posted earlier (using Velcro) doesn't always work; it will vary from unit to unit. However, the velcro can serve as a redundancy / precaution to prevent further modification to orientation of the camera.
In the videos, not the following:
Green allen key set is for torx
Yellow allen key set is for hex
Dahua - Google Drive
drive.google.com
Like @Dramus mentioned, something about the casting/machining is also a factor here. Users here have the right to provide feedback here; and this needs to go to Dahua, not Andy. Andy is only selling, best he can do is send the feedback to Dahua. Even licensed installers will feel perplexed by this; there's probably liability involved if they dare to install these on a customer's premises, 
Like everyone else, I don't have any issues with the 5231 
Like everyone else, I don't have any issues with the 5231 Attachments
bigredfish
Known around here
I never had any problems like this with any other model. So far the only solutions I have is to replace set screw and add Velcro as a filler.
No worry guys, if the ball lost the control in the later 2 years, anytime, you can contact me for a replacement. 
Ha, now that’s good customer service. Thank you AndyNo worry guys, if the ball lost the control in the later 2 years, anytime, you can contact me for a replacement.
If this model not available, we will change the latest new cams
This model is too popular and too good in terms
of performance; S2 model in the works
copland
n3wb
And this is why I've said time and time again Andy is the best. Gives me the piece of mind I need...but first time I notice a droop, these cams will be shipped back to Andy...quick...fast...and in a hurry. Good thing is I can trust him to do the same on the return.
I just had a few more T5442's arrive from Andy today, along with another HDW5231R-ZE, so I figure I'd comment on a few things I've read. Just my personal opinion and experience, nothing more. I'm happy that people here are willing to talk about their concerns and share differing viewpoints; open discussion is valuable and shouldn't make anyone feel threatened.
As others have already said, I've had good experiences buying from Andy and will continue to do so - none of this is about him or the company he works for. I also like the sensor in this camera along with the discreet appearance the turret provides so I'll probably continue to use them where appropriate.
Just as a data point for anyone that was keeping track: Earlier T5442 cameras I received from Andy were dated 2019-07, while the most recent ones I received today are dated 2019-10. There's no discernible difference between any of them. As Andy states, it's likely the same across all of them if the changes are considered a feature to make installation easier for some people.
Andy's comment does make me question what passes for installers these days though if they're seriously having difficulty adjusting one of the older styles that lock in place as you'd expect. You loosen the screw, adjust the camera, and tighten the screw - it's not exactly rocket science. And as for the Mattel tool that's included (that comment made me laugh!), I'm sure it's just a thoughtful inclusion for a home user that might not have the appropriate tool in their junk drawer so they don't find themselves dead in the water. I can't get too upset about the quality of the wrench since I doubt professional installers ever do anything with them besides toss them in the trash and instead use their own quality tools. I know all the freebie wrenches I have acquired here are currently sitting in a pail with other metal bits and junk waiting to be scrapped.
Or, as I encountered recently, a ball. A soccer ball to be precise or so I'm told.
I had added a T5442 I got from Andy on a house covering a portion of the driveway. It supposedly got knocked by a soccer ball where the kid was practicing his juggling too close to the garage. It was an easy "fix" since you can just move it whenever you want but if it happens again there, I'll be replacing it with a different model to keep everyone happy.
Could it have happened with an older model camera with a more secure locking mechanism? Possibly; I have no idea how hard it was hit.
I get what you're saying Andy, but it seems clear that "Can be adjusted" =/= "Locked". They're mutually exclusive.
Losing the screw is clearly just user error; You can back the screw out very far without it actually coming out. There's never a need to loosen it anywhere close to that much - It takes at least three full turns too many before loss can possibly become an issue.
I thought friends weren't supposed to let friends install domes outdoors?
For the most part, I agree but again...something as simple as a kid playing has already demonstrated to me beyond the hypothetical that "stuff happens". Nothing nefarious going on - no bad guys with tape or spray or broomsticks. I imagine there are many other innocent causes for cameras getting bumped like the teenager tasked with cleaning leaves out of the gutter or the guy paid to clean the siding, etc.
Anyway, I'm sure it's obvious but consider me someone who'd prefer the older style where the locking screws actually lock things in place. I've never had an issue properly adjusting reasonably designed cameras and I know enough not to back the screws out so far that they fall out and get lost.
If it really was a change that was made for professional installers, the thought process must be that they can shave a few seconds off here and there by not having to reach for a tool - time is money and all that. I for one don't install or maintain all that many cameras so the tiny time savings is irrelevant, which makes it easy to prefer the way it used to be. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that the change is really just part of some cost-saving measures though, given the rougher castings, paint, and different material to grip the camera when the old one worked perfectly. Margins are slim at the low end so the bean counters are always looking for ways to shave pennies....
If feedback is what got us these changes, perhaps someone at Dahua will listen to feedback from Andy's customers that prefer the old style. It doesn't make sense to me to trade the security and simplicity of "set and forget" for what's likely a minimal one-time convenience during installation.
Oh - and we want our varifocal turret.
(Seriously - is it just not possible with this sensor due to size constraints or something? 
)
As others have already said, I've had good experiences buying from Andy and will continue to do so - none of this is about him or the company he works for. I also like the sensor in this camera along with the discreet appearance the turret provides so I'll probably continue to use them where appropriate.
Just as a data point for anyone that was keeping track: Earlier T5442 cameras I received from Andy were dated 2019-07, while the most recent ones I received today are dated 2019-10. There's no discernible difference between any of them. As Andy states, it's likely the same across all of them if the changes are considered a feature to make installation easier for some people.
Andy's comment does make me question what passes for installers these days though if they're seriously having difficulty adjusting one of the older styles that lock in place as you'd expect. You loosen the screw, adjust the camera, and tighten the screw - it's not exactly rocket science. And as for the Mattel tool that's included (that comment made me laugh!), I'm sure it's just a thoughtful inclusion for a home user that might not have the appropriate tool in their junk drawer so they don't find themselves dead in the water. I can't get too upset about the quality of the wrench since I doubt professional installers ever do anything with them besides toss them in the trash and instead use their own quality tools. I know all the freebie wrenches I have acquired here are currently sitting in a pail with other metal bits and junk waiting to be scrapped.
Or, as I encountered recently, a ball. A soccer ball to be precise or so I'm told.
I had added a T5442 I got from Andy on a house covering a portion of the driveway. It supposedly got knocked by a soccer ball where the kid was practicing his juggling too close to the garage. It was an easy "fix" since you can just move it whenever you want but if it happens again there, I'll be replacing it with a different model to keep everyone happy.
Could it have happened with an older model camera with a more secure locking mechanism? Possibly; I have no idea how hard it was hit.
I get what you're saying Andy, but it seems clear that "Can be adjusted" =/= "Locked". They're mutually exclusive.
Losing the screw is clearly just user error; You can back the screw out very far without it actually coming out. There's never a need to loosen it anywhere close to that much - It takes at least three full turns too many before loss can possibly become an issue.
I thought friends weren't supposed to let friends install domes outdoors? For the most part, I agree but again...something as simple as a kid playing has already demonstrated to me beyond the hypothetical that "stuff happens". Nothing nefarious going on - no bad guys with tape or spray or broomsticks. I imagine there are many other innocent causes for cameras getting bumped like the teenager tasked with cleaning leaves out of the gutter or the guy paid to clean the siding, etc.
Anyway, I'm sure it's obvious but consider me someone who'd prefer the older style where the locking screws actually lock things in place. I've never had an issue properly adjusting reasonably designed cameras and I know enough not to back the screws out so far that they fall out and get lost.
If it really was a change that was made for professional installers, the thought process must be that they can shave a few seconds off here and there by not having to reach for a tool - time is money and all that. I for one don't install or maintain all that many cameras so the tiny time savings is irrelevant, which makes it easy to prefer the way it used to be. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that the change is really just part of some cost-saving measures though, given the rougher castings, paint, and different material to grip the camera when the old one worked perfectly. Margins are slim at the low end so the bean counters are always looking for ways to shave pennies....
If feedback is what got us these changes, perhaps someone at Dahua will listen to feedback from Andy's customers that prefer the old style. It doesn't make sense to me to trade the security and simplicity of "set and forget" for what's likely a minimal one-time convenience during installation.
Oh - and we want our varifocal turret.
(Seriously - is it just not possible with this sensor due to size constraints or something? )@DavidR1, the irony is that the turrets sold in the states (Dahua and Dahua-rebranded), I've come across have no cosmetic / build-quality issues whatsoever; but this may be a subjective comment because I haven't come across a Dahua turret camera (sold in the US market) that has had some defect or design issue yet. its possible that resellers (selling Dahua-rebranded equipment) pay a little more in terms of quality control which is why the cost is a bit more (sometimes twice or even thrice). If you buy the Dahua cameras that are sold by Dahua via their authorized sellers in the states (with 5-year warranty), you'll likely not come across an outstanding defect. Even the cheapest dome camera I picked from B&H the other day does not have even the slightest paint quality / machining & casting issue. Cameras coming from this IPCT Vendor is technically a rebrand as well, but just without any associated logo. There are certain parameters that sellers get to select prior (which include cost-savings); quality control is key to longevity in a business's survival and success. This forum has fueled sales of popular Dahua models to skyrocket. As in any retail store, a popular item may sell out fast, and to meet demand, there might be certain sacrifices that companies are willing to take. If you want your voices to be heard, feedback should be sent directly to Dahua Its good that Andy sells Hikvision too now, haha
A varifocal turret will come out for the 4mp Starlight; there's always a way, and eventually it will be released. The effect is purely psychological from a consumer-standpoint. Companies these days study consumer buying behavior and go from there. Its purely economics. We've at 10nm processors now; the advances in optics (mirrorless cameras) have come to fruition. I know this all sounds very broad; like everyone else, a beefier and larger shell to enclose a varifocal model for the 4mp Starlight series wouldn't be a problem.
If you want your voices to be heard, feedback should be sent directly to Dahua Its good that Andy sells Hikvision too now, hahaA varifocal turret will come out for the 4mp Starlight; there's always a way, and eventually it will be released. The effect is purely psychological from a consumer-standpoint. Companies these days study consumer buying behavior and go from there. Its purely economics. We've at 10nm processors now; the advances in optics (mirrorless cameras) have come to fruition. I know this all sounds very broad; like everyone else, a beefier and larger shell to enclose a varifocal model for the 4mp Starlight series wouldn't be a problem.
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So mine came today, manufacture date 10-2019. At first I was really disappointed with how sloppy it was, but I noticed if you play around with how it's oriented and if you can get 3 of the rubber feet to make contact with the "eyeball" portion of the camera it stays pretty secure. In the picture attached only 1 of the feet is not making contact with the "eyeball" and it's pretty secure. It's not locked into place completely, but it'd be difficult enough to move. Out of the box it was only making contact with 2 feet in most positions, so with a little trial and error I think it can be acceptable.
If anyone's looking to increase grip between the camera ball and the feet, grab yourself a roll of the flippety self-fusing silicone tape you can get at a hardware store or Amazon. It's got an inherently grippy nature, the proper compressibility, and is the right thickness to fit between the base's feet and the ball. Bonus, it's great for an additional waterproofing measure on your network connectors. AND you get to use the word "flippety!"
I am building a time machine. My future self will be bringing us some
Oh - and we want our varifocal turret.
I am building a time machine. My future self will be bringing us some
IAmATeaf
Known around here
Not watched all the vids but it’s quite clear that the issue is with the thickness of the pads. Can’t quite remember what the pads were like on the 5231 cams I had but simply adding another layer on top of the existing pads would probably resolve the issue.
In terms of ease of install, I never had any issues when installing and adjusting my 5231s even when perched on the top of a ladder so I’ve don’t think I understand the notion that this change was made to make it easier to install.
From Andy and Duhuas point, looking at and changing the thickness of the pads should resolve the issue so a simple fix maybe? Maybe should pack an extra set which can be stuck on for people who prefer a tighter ball
In terms of ease of install, I never had any issues when installing and adjusting my 5231s even when perched on the top of a ladder so I’ve don’t think I understand the notion that this change was made to make it easier to install.
From Andy and Duhuas point, looking at and changing the thickness of the pads should resolve the issue so a simple fix maybe? Maybe should pack an extra set which can be stuck on for people who prefer a tighter ball
ljw2k
Known around here
I have a IPC-HDW4231EM-AS 2mp Starlight turret 2.8mm for testing / demonstration purposes; purchased a couple of years ago, but the pad thickness seems to be the same as the newer 4mp variant. If we're talking about microns here, that's crazy I'll need to measure this
I'll need to measure thisNot watched all the vids but it’s quite clear that the issue is with the thickness of the pads. Can’t quite remember what the pads were like on the 5231 cams I had but simply adding another layer on top of the existing pads would probably resolve the issue.
In terms of ease of install, I never had any issues when installing and adjusting my 5231s even when perched on the top of a ladder so I’ve don’t think I understand the notion that this change was made to make it easier to install.
From Andy and Duhuas point, looking at and changing the thickness of the pads should resolve the issue so a simple fix maybe? Maybe should pack an extra set which can be stuck on for people who prefer a tighter ball
Guys, like @looney2ns has already stated, put a piece of this (see picture) between the camera ball and the shell, that should lock everything in place Cheers
I'll make a video if need be
CheersI'll make a video if need be
Attachments
I have a 6mm focal length coming in soon for a client, I'll post feedback as well
I will invite more guys to talk about this here to share their experience. By the way, I don't pay any guy money for fake review or tring to hide something here, always try to offer the best product.@DavidR1, the irony is that the turrets sold in the states (Dahua and Dahua-rebranded), I've come across have no cosmetic / build-quality issues whatsoever; but this may be a subjective comment because I haven't come across a Dahua turret camera (sold in the US market) that has had some defect or design issue yet. its possible that resellers (selling Dahua-rebranded equipment) pay a little more in terms of quality control which is why the cost is a bit more (sometimes twice or even thrice). If you buy the Dahua cameras that are sold by Dahua via their authorized sellers in the states (with 5-year warranty), you'll likely not come across an outstanding defect. Even the cheapest dome camera I picked from B&H the other day does not have even the slightest paint quality / machining & casting issue. Cameras coming from this IPCT Vendor is technically a rebrand as well, but just without any associated logo. There are certain parameters that sellers get to select prior (which include cost-savings); quality control is key to longevity in a business's survival and success. This forum has fueled sales of popular Dahua models to skyrocket. As in any retail store, a popular item may sell out fast, and to meet demand, there might be certain sacrifices that companies are willing to take.
A varifocal turret will come out for the 4mp Starlight; there's always a way, and eventually it will be released. The effect is purely psychological from a consumer-standpoint. Companies these days study consumer buying behavior and go from there. Its purely economics. We've at 10nm processors now; the advances in optics (mirrorless cameras) have come to fruition. I know this all sounds very broad; like everyone else, a beefier and larger shell to enclose a varifocal model for the 4mp Starlight series wouldn't be a problem.
For the guy who left a negtive feedback on our shop, thanks to you too.