Safe way for recordings

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
I went through some previous threads, as I considered cloud storage, but it seems that this is an option in general advised against.

So I have the XVR with internal SSD. I have the cameras and recorder on a UPS, so when they cut the electric before entering it still records.

Once they are inside, they of course easily can take the recorder with them, because thieving is what they are there for after all.

So what would be a safe setup as to not lose the recordings?
 

setch

n3wb
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
10
Reaction score
16
Location
UK
I have a Synology NAS hidden away in the roof space of my garage. Would need to be a committed burglar to find it.
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
14,151
Reaction score
19,440
Location
Evansville, In. USA
I went through some previous threads, as I considered cloud storage, but it seems that this is an option in general advised against.

So I have the XVR with internal SSD. I have the cameras and recorder on a UPS, so when they cut the electric before entering it still records.

Once they are inside, they of course easily can take the recorder with them, because thieving is what they are there for after all.

So what would be a safe setup as to not lose the recordings?
Hide the XVR someplace that isn't obvious. The SSD may not live long due to sustained writes to it from the video.
A Western Digital Purple drive is a better choice.
 

DanDenver

Getting comfortable
Joined
May 3, 2021
Messages
463
Reaction score
735
Location
Denver Colorado
They are looking for low hanging fruit on a time limited basis. Just don't make the location of the drive/PC easily noticed or seen.

Out of curiosity, why are you not leaning towards the cloud? It solves the one concern you brought up, which is that the instant it is recorded, it is whisked away and off the property.
 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
They are looking for low hanging fruit on a time limited basis. Just don't make the location of the drive/PC easily noticed or seen.

Out of curiosity, why are you not leaning towards the cloud? It solves the one concern you brought up, which is that the instant it is recorded, it is whisked away and off the property.
Because there are a few threads on this forum that advise against it

Hide the XVR someplace that isn't obvious. The SSD may not live long due to sustained writes to it from the video.
A Western Digital Purple drive is a better choice.
Is this a known fact that SSD's fail quickly? I would have thought that an SSD would be more reliable than a HDD, because no moving parts.

I have several 2TB Western Digital Green lying around. Would that be a better choice than a SSD.

How much of a storage would I need for 7 cameras 1080p 30fps, recording 24/7?
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,522
Reaction score
27,605
Location
New Jersey
Just remember to account for the bandwidth required to upload to the "cloud". Another consideration is the security of the cloud, both during uploading, which will be constant, and once it is there.
 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
Just remember to account for the bandwidth required to upload to the "cloud". Another consideration is the security of the cloud, both during uploading, which will be constant, and once it is there.
I have 500 Mbps unlimited upload, so bandwidth would not be an issue.

Any suggestions on a free reliable option, and how much storage I would need per each 24 hours, with 7 cameras 1080p recording in 30Fps?
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2019
Messages
11,522
Reaction score
27,605
Location
New Jersey
Look in the Wiki, in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a calculator in there for disk space.

Incidentally, Hollywood only uses 24F/ps for movies and TV. Surveillance is neither. 15F/ps will both reduce CPU loading, utilization, and cut your storage requirements in half when compared to 30F/ps. Unless, of course, your real name is Cecil B. DeMille. :)
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
16,395
Reaction score
30,483
Location
USA
Just because you have the available upload doesn't mean it can actually support 24/7 never taking a breadth break of data feeding, nor does it mean your ISP would like it either. I think your system would struggle trying to keep up.

And to be be clear, I don't think anybody here is suggesting you go cloud, I think it was a rhetorical question lol.

But do keep in mind 30FPS is total waste for surveillance. Sure 30FPS can provide a smoother video but no police officer has said "wow that person really is running smooth". They want the ability to freeze frame and get a clean image. So be it if the video is a little choppy....and at 10-15FPS it won't be appreciable. My neighbor runs his at 60FPS, so the person or car goes by looking smooth, but it is a blur when trying to freeze frame it because the camera can't keep up. Meanwhile my camera at 15FPS with the proper shutter speed gets the clean shots. Shutter speed is more important than FPS.

Watch these, for most of us, it isn't annoying until below 10FPS






Here is the calculator to calculate the storage requirements.

 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
But do keep in mind 30FPS is total waste for surveillance. Sure 30FPS can provide a smoother video but no police officer has said "wow that person really is running smooth". They want the ability to freeze frame and get a clean image. So be it if the video is a little choppy....and at 10-15FPS it won't be appreciable. My neighbor runs his at 60FPS, so the person or car goes by looking smooth, but it is a blur when trying to freeze frame it because the camera can't keep up. Meanwhile my camera at 15FPS with the proper shutter speed gets the clean shots. Shutter speed is more important than FPS.
I am a bit lost here when you say 30 fps will be a waste, but 15 Fps get clean shots.

Can you advise on that please?

These are my cameras dh-hac-hfw2221rp-z-ire6. How to set them up the correct way please
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
16,395
Reaction score
30,483
Location
USA
It is shutter speed that gets clean shots, not FPS.

Too many people mistake FPS for clean images and think that more is better.

30FPS will use double the storage of 15 FPS. And it doesn't gain you anything of any value. Most here run at 15 FPS.
 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
It is shutter speed that gets clean shots, not FPS.

Too many people mistake FPS for clean images and think that more is better.

30FPS will use double the storage of 15 FPS. And it doesn't gain you anything of any value. Most here run at 15 FPS.
Do my cameras have the right shutter speed, or can this be adjusted?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
16,395
Reaction score
30,483
Location
USA
You have to manually "dial" each camera into the field of view. This includes shutter speed, gain, brightness, etc.

That camera will allow you to adjust shutter speed. You need to log into the camera GUI to make those changes.
 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
You have to manually "dial" each camera into the field of view. This includes shutter speed, gain, brightness, etc.

That camera will allow you to adjust shutter speed. You need to log into the camera GUI to make those changes.
Thanks again. What would be the advised shutter speed for my cameras dh-hac-hfw2221rp-z-ire6 ?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
16,395
Reaction score
30,483
Location
USA
The settings are unique to each field of view and available light.

Surveillance cameras rarely do good on default auto settings like exposure/shutter at night. Any camera can be forced in color and look great for a static image, but motion is a blur.

In my opinion, shutter (exposure) and gain are the two most important parameters and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies. Match iframes to FPS. 15FPS is all that is usually needed.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

But first, run H264, smart codec off, CBR, and 8192 bitrate to start, along with 15 FPS and 15 i-frame.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-4ms exposure and 0-30 gain (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night static image results in Casper blur and ghost during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

In the daytime, if it is still too bright, then drop the 4ms down to 3ms then 2ms, etc. You have to play with it for your field of view.

Then at night, if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible.

After every setting adjustment, have someone walk around outside and see if you can freeze-frame to get a clean image. If not, keep changing until you do. Clean motion pictures are what we are after, not a clean static image.
 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
Thanks for the detailed explanation, it will take me some time to consume all of it. So I understand I can apply different setting for day and for night time.

Can all this be done in the XVR settings, or do I need a special software for it?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
16,395
Reaction score
30,483
Location
USA
It is best to go thru the XVR to get to the camera GUI itself.

Not quite the same unit but look at this thread:

 

Basjke

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jan 5, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
22
I just stumbled on a website, which wrote the below. Since I have analogue cameras, I would like to know if this is correct, and if so, if I actually should bother with the fine-tuning.

Analogue cameras have overall lower quality than IP cameras, but perform better in low light conditions. Analogue cameras have more limited site ranges and don’t offer the zoom-in clarity of IP cameras. If you zoom in on the analogue images, you’re going to get a grainier, degraded picture. It’s not like what you see on TV cop shows. If you’re using an analogue camera, you’re not going to recognise the perpetrators face by zooming in.
 
Top