Shots fired - Help with re-configuration of Camera set-up

[Paulieboy]

Hello All,

Last night after arriving home form work there where a number of shots fired within 60 feet of my residence. The Police arrived and asked if they can view the footage of my cameras. My cameras have served me well thus far but from time to time because I have them set for motion detection the footage can jump from one instance to another if the subjects are not very active in the field of view. As in this footage you can see two men walk by, loiter around and then the footage jumps to seeing them practically out of the field of view running away. Because of the lack of motion the cameras did not pick up the instance of the gunshots. When I configured the cameras in Blue Iris, I set them for max sensitivity. Although these types of instances are rare, I would really like to be able to have my cameras pick up the entire event. I would like some suggestions / help on what I should do to be able to have a complete storyline for at least a couple of my cameras that I feel are pointed at locations that may be "higher risk areas". Or re-configure them some what where they are not "Choppy". Should I just purchase a bigger hard drive specifically for continual recording? How big a terabyte drive would I need? Is this problem with the configuration of the internal software of the camera or the settings in Blue Iris? Is multiple hard drives good to have dedicated for specific cameras? Allot of questions I know but if I was able to have caught the event in full, The more the Police would of had to work with.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Paul

 

[mat200]

Hello All,

Last night after arriving home form work there where a number of shots fired within 60 feet of my residence. The Police arrived and asked if they can view the footage of my cameras. My cameras have served me well thus far but from time to time because I have them set for motion detection the footage can jump from one instance to another if the subjects are not very active in the field of view. As in this footage you can see two men walk by, loiter around and then the footage jumps to seeing them practically out of the field of view running away. Because of the lack of motion the cameras did not pick up the instance of the gunshots. When I configured the cameras in Blue Iris, I set them for max sensitivity. Although these types of instances are rare, I would really like to be able to have my cameras pick up the entire event. I would like some suggestions / help on what I should do to be able to have a complete storyline for at least a couple of my cameras that I feel are pointed at locations that may be "higher risk areas". Or re-configure them some what where they are not "Choppy". Should I just purchase a bigger hard drive specifically for continual recording? How big a terabyte drive would I need? Is this problem with the configuration of the internal software of the camera or the settings in Blue Iris? Is multiple hard drives good to have dedicated for specific cameras? Allot of questions I know but if I was able to have caught the event in full, The more the Police would of had to work with.

Thank you for any help you can offer.

Paul

yes continuous recording is the way to get this .. and yes, a bigger hdd .. typically the largest capacity you can afford = answer ...

this is why it is nice to have a PC that can hold more than one HDD btw ..

 

[wittaj]

Most here run 24/7 just in case.

While setting up to record just on motion and having months of video sounds great, the reality of it is unless it was something catastrophic (which you would have known about sooner anyway), most are not going to start scrubbing video for something that may have happened a few weeks ago.

So I have found that by spending time to dial in the alerts and a frequent peek at what is going on, you would have noticed something around your property within days.

The reality of it is If a neighbor comes up to me and says "sometime around 2 weeks ago someone backed into my car, can you see if you caught it?" You will find that even with the best scrubbing this is a monumental task. Unless they can narrow down the day/time window, most of us are not going to scour it.

So set it up to get you 24/7 coverage for whatever acceptable period make sense in your case.

You can setup BI to record continuous+triggers which will record substream until triggered and then go to mainstream and then back when trigger is over.

Now in a situation like this, it would mean the video goes from substream to mainstream to substream to mainstream, BUT if you make the substream a little higher bitrate, it can get decent captures as the thread below shows.

You can get decent resolution with a D1 at 1024 and be minimal usage on the CPU as shown in the post below. Or you can set up just continuous and that records 24/7 mainstream.

How much resolution is really needed for LPR

We have folks come here all the time thinking that more MP is better, whether it be for general purposes or for LPR. Those of us that have been around long enough know that sensor size is more important than MP. Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

You have hit upon one of the reasons the cloud cams are not recommended for security. Also why most folks recommend not recording on motion only.

Only you can decide just how long you want to retain video.

See the below threads that touch upon the need for constant recording and multiple cams.

Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)

So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...

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Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

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Use of Overview and LPR Cams to Document Midnight Vehicle Distributing Offensive Flyers on Lawns

We were out of town and I was checking my cams remotely one morning and noticed one of the Deputies that regularly patrol my subdivision had been at my front door. She has come to me a few times requesting video as she knows I have fairly good coverage of the streets at my corner. I noticed that...

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[jec6613]

In Blue Iris there's a setting that records when triggered and goes for a certain period of time, on the Trigger tab the "End trigger unless re-triggered within" box - mine is set to 5 minutes, plus a pre-trigger record time of 10 seconds. If cameras also have an overlapping FOV, you can have one trigger recording on the others. This makes the clips longer, but still isn't anywhere near continuous recording levels of disk usage.

Using those solved my missing clip problem entirely.

 

[samplenhold]

Using those solved my missing clip problem entirely.

Glad it works for you. I would not trust this at all. Storage is cheep. If I was worried about how much disk space was being used, I would not have cams. Much like if I was worried about how much I spend on diesel I would not have a motorcoach.

 

[jec6613]

Glad it works for you. I would not trust this at all. Storage is cheep. If I was worried about how much disk space was being used, I would not have cams. Much like if I was worried about how much I spend on diesel I would not have a motorcoach.

1
That depends what do you define as, "Cheap." Continuous 30 day recording for me is over $10k - I'd need disk shelves, SAS controllers, additional PCI-E slots, plus the ongoing cost of electricity, rack space, etc - it becomes a 4U 1kw solution. As opposed to 1U with a couple of 16 TB disks and an SLC cache. In my day job I've had significant experience with calculating long term technology TCO, and in this case it can double the up front cost (including my time involvement) and roughly quadruples the 10-year cost. At a certain point, the price of diesel becomes so high that you do have to worry about it.

Your needs may be different, if you can handle full time recording on a 16 TB drives, more power to you.

 

[Paulieboy]

Most here run 24/7 just in case.

While setting up to record just on motion and having months of video sounds great, the reality of it is unless it was something catastrophic (which you would have known about sooner anyway), most are not going to start scrubbing video for something that may have happened a few weeks ago.

So I have found that by spending time to dial in the alerts and a frequent peek at what is going on, you would have noticed something around your property within days.

The reality of it is If a neighbor comes up to me and says "sometime around 2 weeks ago someone backed into my car, can you see if you caught it?" You will find that even with the best scrubbing this is a monumental task. Unless they can narrow down the day/time window, most of us are not going to scour it.

So set it up to get you 24/7 coverage for whatever acceptable period make sense in your case.

You can setup BI to record continuous+triggers which will record substream until triggered and then go to mainstream and then back when trigger is over.

Now in a situation like this, it would mean the video goes from substream to mainstream to substream to mainstream, BUT if you make the substream a little higher bitrate, it can get decent captures as the thread below shows.

You can get decent resolution with a D1 at 1024 and be minimal usage on the CPU as shown in the post below. Or you can set up just continuous and that records 24/7 mainstream.

How much resolution is really needed for LPR

We have folks come here all the time thinking that more MP is better, whether it be for general purposes or for LPR. Those of us that have been around long enough know that sensor size is more important than MP. Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of...

ipcamtalk.com

Hi Wittaj,

I really like that idea of continuous+Trigger. I know It sounds a little cheap worrying about storage space but whatever size HD I have I always like to squeeze as much video into it as possible when it comes to my security system. So! Using continuous+trigger will record the substream at a lower bitrate / resolution to save some space then when triggered will record Mainstream at the higher rate / resolution and then return to substream recording until it is triggered again? That sounds Great! Do I only need to select the "continuous+trigger" option or do I also need to choose something to end mainstream recording after a certain period of time?

Thank you for your help.

Paul

 

[wittaj]

Hi Wittaj,

I really like that idea of continuous+Trigger. I know It sounds a little cheap worrying about storage space but whatever size HD I have I always like to squeeze as much video into it as possible when it comes to my security system. So! Using continuous+trigger will record the substream at a lower bitrate / resolution to save some space then when triggered will record Mainstream at the higher rate / resolution and then return to substream recording until it is triggered again? That sounds Great! Do I only need to select the "continuous+trigger" option or do I also need to choose something to end mainstream recording after a certain period of time?

Thank you for your help.

Paul

Yes you would select that option for every camera you want to use that storage feature for and then it will record mainstream for as long after the motion as you put in for the Break Time (default is 10 seconds). So make that a little longer if you want to ensure if someone stops for a minute as an example.

 

[Paulieboy]

I do like the whole idea of recording with continuous+triggers, especially since it is not for all my cameras but just a few that are in areas of interest. And I would only like to get a time period of a 7 day continuous play per cam. Wittaj made a very good point, If something like this happens again or any significant event, If the police don't come within that 7 day window "when they already know I have cameras", SHAME ON THEM!

Thanks guys!

 

[samplenhold]

If you do not record 24/7, then you do not know what you did not record. You do not know what you missed. It is as simple as that.

 

[Paulieboy]

It seems by the opinions of practically all, Continuous of some kind is the way to go, So thats what I plan on doing. Now my concern is the make and type of cameras I what to purchase to acchieve my goals. I have a been using Reolink cameras for a while now but the seem a little querky from time to time. I purchased a couple of amcrest and they appear pretty stable? Now because of the location I don't want to use bullet cameras because they would look horrable right at the front door so my options are either Dome or Turret. What are your opinions on this? Is one better than the other? Dome seem to be the best as far as tamper proof? So many questions and so little time!

Thanks you all for your help

 

[wittaj]

Oh well that explains it LOL. Reolinks are horrible at night. Even if 24/7 you won't get anything other than what time it happened...maybe LOL.

Amcrest are made by Dahua but to keep costs down the internals are usually not high performing. And then if you got the typical 2.8 or 3.6mm fixed cams, they won't identify past 15 feet or so at night.

You need to get the right camera for the area you want to IDENTIFY. Depending on that distance, a turret or dome won't cut it as the focal length isn't large enough.

Paint the camera to match the house. So many people have cameras now it usually isn't even noticed.

See this thread for the most commonly suggested cameras (and Amazon purchasing links) here based on distance to IDENTIFY. These cameras represent the best overall value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

The biggest issue with a dome is that domes are not recommended outside unless it is well protected from the elements. The big issue is that the domes will hold onto water droplets much longer than other cameras and thus any dirt on it can then become problematic. And during a rain event with IR, the camera is basically blind...but even without rain, the reflections of lights even outside the field of view can throw weird reflections into the dome.

The domes attract lots of dust. Then rain. Then dirty rain spots. Glare from all angles of the sun. Then over time the sun will "fog" the dome like a car headlight.


Stay away from Reolink unless all you care about is what time something happened. Their night time performance is horrible.

In most instances, you want to get a camera that will perform at your location for the worse situation, which for most of us is at night when it is dark and there is little to no light. If a camera performs at night, it is easier to tweak settings to make it work during the day than it is the other way around.

Did I mention avoid Reolink, especially at night they are horrible. Look at these examples.

What you mean a missing hand isn't normal LOL (plus look at the blur on the face and he is barely moving and this should be ideal indoor IR bounce and it struggles):

How about missing everything but the head and upper torso

The invisible man, where can he be. Thank goodness he is carrying around a reflective plate to see where he is LOL (hint - the person is literally in the middle of the image at the end of the fence holding a license plate)

I've seen better images on an episode of ghost hunters

And of course, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture.... Could this provide anything useful for the police other than the date and time something happened? Would this protect your store? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two visible columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the cameras can't see you


Here is the unofficial Reolink page where people have provided their best nighttime image captures. As you will see, they are basically useless.

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

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