Smallest/most discrete outdoor security camera?

hawkeye217

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I'd love to hear from the community any of your recommendations for the smallest/most discrete outdoor cameras for security in a fairly dense neighborhood of single family homes. My home is single story, so something soffit mounted would work. Another option could be something smaller that could mount discretely on an inside window looking outside.

It could be POE or Wifi, I have attic access and could easily run an ethernet cable to something.

What would you recommend?
 

sebastiantombs

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My experience with cameras, over the years, has shown me that most people don't even notice them. I have a total of five, full size, turret cameras, three soffit mounted and two tree mounted, on the front of the house. The only camera anyone ever seems to notice is the doorbell camera, the sixth camera on the front of the house, or the gate camera mounted at eye level on a gate post, the seventh camera.
 

bradner

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Good point. So would you suggest turrets, domes, or something else?
100% turrets - you can even paint them to blend it more if you really wanted. Bullets stand out but sometimes not a bad thing for people to know you have cameras too! This coming from someone who has nearly 30 cams around their place :D
 

hawkeye217

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Some of my friends have a few Amcrest turrets on their rural home and they're pleased with them (they actually also added an external IR illuminator for better night vision).

I wouldn't need anything fancy with AI/motion/person detection since I already have a decent setup through Home Assistant and Frigate on my doorbell camera. Just a reliable connection, decent resolution and some good WDR due to the sun angle in the afternoon, and good night vision (either starlight or IR).

What are the go-to makes/models that you all recommend today?
 

bradner

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Some of my friends have a few Amcrest turrets on their rural home and they're pleased with them (they actually also added an external IR illuminator for better night vision).

I wouldn't need anything fancy with AI/motion/person detection since I already have a decent setup through Home Assistant and Frigate on my doorbell camera. Just a reliable connection, decent resolution and some good WDR due to the sun angle in the afternoon, and good night vision (either starlight or IR).

What are the go-to makes/models that you all recommend today?
Dahua 5442's
 

sebastiantombs

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StarLight, ColorVu, FullColor are nothing more than marketing terms and have no real relationship to camera capabilities or any actual specification to attain those "vaunted" terms. All it take is the marketing department to call a camera "StarLight" or "ColorVU".

I'd stick with the Dahua 5442 series of turrets. Don't get caught up in the "I can see the whole yard with just one of these cameras" line of thought. Yes, you can see the whole yard but you can't actually identify, positively identify as in supply proof of who did what, with cameras like that. The smart thing to do is to buy one varifocal camera, like a Dahua/EmpireTech IPC-5442T-ZE and use a test rig to test each location, day and night, to find out what lens size, focal length, you actually need. Do the tests wearing a hoodie and acting like a bad guy, or better yet have a friend do that, and see if you can actually POSITIVLEY identify who it is and not just know because you already know who it is. DO the tests both day and night, but emphasize night tests since that's when things happen we really need to know about.

A test rig is nothing more than an eight foot 2x4 standing in a five gallon bucket filled with sand or stones. Alternately, that same 2x4 clamped t a six foot step ladder will work, too, if you've got relatively level surface for the ladder.

You can easily watch the video using the web GUI of the camera. No need for an NVR or VMS to conduct these tests. Remember, too, that Amcrest is a rebrand of Dahua and to get the price low features and quality are removed which handicap how well they can work.
 

hawkeye217

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StarLight, ColorVu, FullColor are nothing more than marketing terms and have no real relationship to camera capabilities or any actual specification to attain those "vaunted" terms. All it take is the marketing department to call a camera "StarLight" or "ColorVU".

I'd stick with the Dahua 5442 series of turrets. Don't get caught up in the "I can see the whole yard with just one of these cameras" line of thought. Yes, you can see the whole yard but you can't actually identify, positively identify as in supply proof of who did what, with cameras like that. The smart thing to do is to buy one varifocal camera, like a Dahua/EmpireTech IPC-5442T-ZE and use a test rig to test each location, day and night, to find out what lens size, focal length, you actually need. Do the tests wearing a hoodie and acting like a bad guy, or better yet have a friend do that, and see if you can actually POSITIVLEY identify who it is and not just know because you already know who it is. DO the tests both day and night, but emphasize night tests since that's when things happen we really need to know about.

A test rig is nothing more than an eight foot 2x4 standing in a five gallon bucket filled with sand or stones. Alternately, that same 2x4 clamped t a six foot step ladder will work, too, if you've got relatively level surface for the ladder.

You can easily watch the video using the web GUI of the camera. No need for an NVR or VMS to conduct these tests. Remember, too, that Amcrest is a rebrand of Dahua and to get the price low features and quality are removed which handicap how well they can work.
Wow, super super helpful. Thank you! Definitely gets me thinking about what I need as opposed to just throwing a camera up and hoping for the best.

The 5442s have been highlighted in searches and posts I've been reading, so I'll definitely look into it.
 

sebastiantombs

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To enhance your reading -

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar specs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section. Again, remember that every camera needs some light to "see" with just as we do. The 8MP "full color" even needs some light, albeit a lot less, to "see" at night. Also remember that if you slow the shutter speed down enough, long exposure time, just about any modern camera can be made to "see" color at night. Problem with that is that any motion will be nothing more than a blur and totally useless. It will look great in a still frame though.

Review - 8MP 1/1.2" sensor full color camera


5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

3241T-ZAS Review
 

Justin Blackburn

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Another vote for a 5442 varifocal here as well. It’s a fantastic camera that performs great day and night. I got one of the new color4K-X and love it as well, but it’s big and very noticeable. It’s crazy good too tho. Another downside to it tho is the wider view. It’s harder to identify than a camera like the 5442 when zoomed in. As a color overview (day and night) tho it’s impossible to beat in my opinion.
 

hawkeye217

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Study this as well: Cliff Notes on a real computer, not a phone. Cameras listed in it are outdated, but the rest of the info is relevant.
Throwing any cam up and hoping for the best is a recipe for disappointment.
The goal to to know who did it, not just what happened.
Those Cliff Notes are really helpful to get me asking the right kind of questions. Thank you!

I primarily would like to use the cam(s) for person detection (through BI or Frigate) at all hours of the day and identification ("who was it?" and not just "it happened!") of them if they are potential security threats.

It makes me think that I should set up two cams instead of just one, even though I would be able to view the area with just one.
 

Rob2020

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The Dahua 5442 turret (much smaller than the Dahua 2231) on a Dahua PFB mount, under the eaves, is barely noticeable. It also looks nice and clean when properly mounted.
 

hawkeye217

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The Dahua 5442 turret (much smaller than the Dahua 2231) on a Dahua PFB mount, under the eaves, is barely noticeable. It also looks nice and clean when properly mounted.
Would you happen to have a pic of that? I'd love to see it mounted!
 

sebastiantombs

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To put the number of cameras in perspective for you. Our house is relatively modest, say 50x30 feet. On the long sides, front and rear, there are three cameras. One on each end looking back toward each other so the are "watched" by each other, and a third looking straight out from the center to fill in the center for close in identification where the two end mounted are too far away. Like I said, don't try to cover too much with one camera, it will never work but you will have nice, pretty views even though they'll be useless when you really need them.

The 5442T series, 2231T series and 3241T series are all, basically the same size and all use the PFA-130 mounting box should you need to use a mounting box to keep the connections out of the weather. The 5442B, bullet series, is a larger bullet camera compared to most other bullets but there are even larger ones than that.
 
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cyberwolf_uk

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Here is a picture from an old thread when I was looking for cabling advice. The final mount ended up flush with the bottom trim board. The unfinished board is just for test purposes.

View attachment 118517
I would be amazed if normal people ever noticed them walking around your property! As I guess a lot of you on here do, when I'm walking the dog I always notice cameras 80% of the time its "Ring" doorbells. The other half thinks I'm sad! :)
 

mat200

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Thanks everyone, some really good posts, and special thanks to @sebastiantombs as always with helpful posts and @Rob2020 for sharing those pictures.

@hawkeye217

in my experience:
many do not notice the cameras, especially if you paint the camera body to match the trim / wall.

In general:
I prefer turrets.
Will use Bullet cameras when I need a model which has a better zoom, ( or when I get a super deal ;)
and
Like a mini-dome wedge model for face level by the front door ( or the double boob model )

In doors, I am ok with dome cameras. Outdoor the UV and heat / cold cycles really reduce the life of the dome and rubber / foam / plastics in the camera.

Also, if you see anything in the cliff notes which needs a major change - please do let me know. ( Thanks to a new member recently for reviewing the DORI section which was not clear .. I've updated that and that section is better now. )
 
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