Sure! Clean Solar installed my system - local SF Bay area contractor.
Solar - Who's got it?
- Thread starter IReallyLikePizza2
- Start date
randytsuch
Pulling my weight
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- Oct 1, 2016
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Thanks, but I'm in So Cal.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Forgot about this thread!
Still waiting on a final price, I'm also having them move the meter to the back of the garage and a bunch of other electrical work. This way I can roll it into one loan and get 26% federal tax credit on the entire job
Still waiting on a final price, I'm also having them move the meter to the back of the garage and a bunch of other electrical work. This way I can roll it into one loan and get 26% federal tax credit on the entire job
tigerwillow1
Known around here
I confess to posting wrong information. When my system was installed 7-1/2 years ago my installer told me that Enphase had recently cut off the panel data in reaction to the installers complaining about all the calls from homeowners seeing one panel was different from another panel. That's when I decided that the Envoy and web site were close to useless and quit using them. After having the Envoy on line today I do see the production info on a per-panel basis. I'm guessing that somewhere along the line the homeowners whined louder than the installers. The 15 panels were all in the range of 1.01 to 1.03 kWh today, good enough for me! I've always had a way to know if the system is working right by comparing the monthly totals from the kWh meter for the Enphase array with the monthly totals from my separate battery-backed system.
It's impressive to me to see that the lifetime production is 36.66 MWh. Megawatt hours! Sounds a lot more impressive than 36,660 kWh. By comparison, the kWh meter reads over 42,000 kWh production, and I trust it more. I'm assuming that each inverter keeps its totals internally and doesn't depend on the Envoy being connected. I'm also wondering if the Envoy's direct-connect interface will now show individual module data? That would take some sort of download to change it. I'll check it out someday.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Final docs signed today, got a great deal I think. They are now install 40 x 400w panels which makes a 16kw system. Not only that, but they are moving my meter which saves me big $$$ on the generator install, replacing both my electrical panels and running a ton of new wire
Best of all, its all under the solar loan so I get 26% off the cost of the electrical work I wanted done anyway!
Total cost $54,000, but I'll get $14,128 back
Best of all, its all under the solar loan so I get 26% off the cost of the electrical work I wanted done anyway!
Total cost $54,000, but I'll get $14,128 back
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IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
I calculated the payback as 15 years using my own numbers, but thats with no electric price increase which I'm sure will happen. I'm not too concerned about the payoff, I just wanted solar to be honest
Now they need to figure out better batteries!
Now they need to figure out better batteries!
I wonder if the resale value of your house will increase due to the solar panels? That is an additional value that is not part of the payout calculations.
Also, what is the 'worth' to a family to not have to endure a power outage? Can you put a price on that? How many power outages do you have in a given year? Last summer we had about four outages that were more than one hour. One was over eight hours, and was at night so sleeping in the summer heat was a little hard. This does not include the freeze outage, which is probably a once in a lifetime event for me.
So when I was thinking of getting a standby generator, I said what is the cost benefit? If I estimate 4 outages a year for a total of 24 hours (excessive, I think), and I was to stay in this house another 15 years, what would the 'dollar cost benefit' have to be to break even? So 24 hours x 15 years = 360 hours. I believe that you stated your gen install was going to be about $22k? That would mean that my hourly cost would be about $61. Put another way, would I pay someone $61 per hour to have electricity during the power outage? It would actually be more than that as one would have to pay for the gas to operate the gen during the outage and monthly tests. Plus the cost of annual maintenance. But you get the idea. Now if the house resale value was more with the gen, then of course the hourly cost would be less.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
I'm sure it must, best of all the increase from the solar and any battery system is exempt from property tax. Win-win there. The generator also increases the value for sure
Personally I never even calculated any kind of payoff for the generator, I had the money and I wanted one, and they are neat. I can't imagine being without power for 2 weeks in some kind of hurricane situation, it would ruin everything in my house with the humidity. And I like toys
Both the solar and the generator also completed things I wanted done anyway, I wanted a bigger gas meter and thats now being done with the generator install, and my entire electric install is being overhauled with the solar. I fact, I can knock off $1500 of the Generator because the solar guys are relocating the meter to right where the Generator is going to be installed
The solar seems like a no brainer, the amount of money I pay each month is less, it can't increase, and I get a bunch of solar panels. Paying the electric bill is like throwing money down the drain, at least now I'm paying for something I own
Personally I never even calculated any kind of payoff for the generator, I had the money and I wanted one, and they are neat. I can't imagine being without power for 2 weeks in some kind of hurricane situation, it would ruin everything in my house with the humidity. And I like toys
Both the solar and the generator also completed things I wanted done anyway, I wanted a bigger gas meter and thats now being done with the generator install, and my entire electric install is being overhauled with the solar. I fact, I can knock off $1500 of the Generator because the solar guys are relocating the meter to right where the Generator is going to be installed
The solar seems like a no brainer, the amount of money I pay each month is less, it can't increase, and I get a bunch of solar panels. Paying the electric bill is like throwing money down the drain, at least now I'm paying for something I own
SouthernYankee
IPCT Contributor
I think that there will be a benefit in the home value in the short term. But will be a decrease in the home value in the long term, as the solar panels will be completed out dated in 5 to 10 years as the electric generation from the panels will increase significantly with new technology. So you will end up with your roof covered in panels, that will generate the same electricity as two or three panels in 10 years.
Will adding solar panel increase the value of your house, which will increase the valuation, which will increase your property taxes ? Some states yes others no.
Will adding solar panel increase the value of your house, which will increase the valuation, which will increase your property taxes ? Some states yes others no.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Not too sure why they would be out dated, the system will generate more power than I need, so unless I significantly increase my usage, the system will serve its purpose for 30 years, or more
Nothing to say you can't slowly swap out panels too. Also the 26% federal tax credit is running out soon, and there is no extension of that in sight
If I wait 10 years, I'm having to pay increasing electric bills each month, and I'd miss out on the 26% tax credit
Nothing to say you can't slowly swap out panels too. Also the 26% federal tax credit is running out soon, and there is no extension of that in sight
If I wait 10 years, I'm having to pay increasing electric bills each month, and I'd miss out on the 26% tax credit
tigerwillow1
Known around here
Throwing some history in here, my 10 year old system uses 230 watt panels with spec efficiency of 14%. The 7 year old system panels are 265 watt, spec efficiency of 16%. Right now, the average efficiency of panels is claimed to be 17% to 19%, The higher end panels are claiming 22% to 24% efficiency. My panels are the standard ~65" x ~39" size. Looks to me like there's a another standard size emerging that's in the ballpark of 82" long, with outputs up to 400 watts. Based on annual production numbers (very iffy way to do it), the 10 year old panels have lost about 7% of their output, and the 7 year old panels no loss at all. Both systems are producing about 5% more than the pre-installation estimate.
The financial angle can be pretty murky. Right now I'm charged 9.3 cents per kWh under 1,000 kWh/month, and 10.5 cents over 1,000 kWh. 10 years ago it was 9.2 cents per kWh, so I've not seen any payback benefit from the rate going up. What has changed a lot is factoring in the lost interest from not having the money in the bank which is now effectively zero. Another thing that's changed for me is the intrinsic value of coasting seamlessly through short power outages. I initially was thinking only of survival during a long outage and put no value of coasting through a short outage. After having a couple of them every year I'm placing a lot of value on this. It's pretty darn convenient! Everybody places their own value on the convenience. If we looked only at payback, anybody with a boat or RV would need to be in an asylum. Another factor is the risk of killing myself clearing show off the roof panels. I can't stand to see the output at zero-point-zero on a full sun winter day.
The financial angle can be pretty murky. Right now I'm charged 9.3 cents per kWh under 1,000 kWh/month, and 10.5 cents over 1,000 kWh. 10 years ago it was 9.2 cents per kWh, so I've not seen any payback benefit from the rate going up. What has changed a lot is factoring in the lost interest from not having the money in the bank which is now effectively zero. Another thing that's changed for me is the intrinsic value of coasting seamlessly through short power outages. I initially was thinking only of survival during a long outage and put no value of coasting through a short outage. After having a couple of them every year I'm placing a lot of value on this. It's pretty darn convenient! Everybody places their own value on the convenience. If we looked only at payback, anybody with a boat or RV would need to be in an asylum. Another factor is the risk of killing myself clearing show off the roof panels. I can't stand to see the output at zero-point-zero on a full sun winter day.
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Thats great feedback, I'm excited to get all this done
Here is some more details on the electrical they are doing, will make my life easier for sure.
Current meter and main panel location, its in front of my gate and just in a terrible location
The FPE box has a bunch of crappy splices, yuck
The panel is 100% full, so I added a sub around the corner where all my new runs would go. I still had to figure out the meter location though (Ignore the loose conduit, it was temporary while the gate was going up)
There is also a sub panel on the garage. But the Generator transfer switch and the solar gear would have to go here on the House, meaning I'd need a bunch of extra cable. So the solar guys are moving the service entrance and the meter to the side of my garage, right near the generator
This will make the generator install easier, give me more options for electric car charging, remove the overhead wire above the driveway (Notice the power pole right there), keep everything behind the gate
I'll have 2 x 200a panels, one on the garage and one on the house. generator transfer switch and all the solar stuff will be on the side of the garage
Here is some more details on the electrical they are doing, will make my life easier for sure.
Current meter and main panel location, its in front of my gate and just in a terrible location
The FPE box has a bunch of crappy splices, yuck
The panel is 100% full, so I added a sub around the corner where all my new runs would go. I still had to figure out the meter location though (Ignore the loose conduit, it was temporary while the gate was going up)
There is also a sub panel on the garage. But the Generator transfer switch and the solar gear would have to go here on the House, meaning I'd need a bunch of extra cable. So the solar guys are moving the service entrance and the meter to the side of my garage, right near the generator
This will make the generator install easier, give me more options for electric car charging, remove the overhead wire above the driveway (Notice the power pole right there), keep everything behind the gate
I'll have 2 x 200a panels, one on the garage and one on the house. generator transfer switch and all the solar stuff will be on the side of the garage
tigerwillow1
Known around here
What a mess in that box!
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
Yeah, I have no idea why they didn't just put the panel right in its place, who knows. A lot of along Alu wire in this house, I've been slowly replacing it
Most of the originally terminated stuff is alright, the issues come where some house flipped messed with it. Some examples (I learned to do electrical pretty fast...)
Where's the ground??? There is ground on the other end...
Fed a ground wire down and used Aluminons to get it connected properly, fitting all that in the box with a GFCI was fun...
WTF is going on here? Just jam all the wire on these lugs. And its done wrong as this outlet does not support Alu. Notice there is two wires on the top screw, and the ground is some weird 18awg wire. Despite the regular ground hanging out in the box!
Took this light off, didn't find a box, found an old bit of wood...
Incorrect Copper to Alu connection just hanging out in the insulation
Not sure why this didn't work...
WTF?
plz no
Awesome
Most of the originally terminated stuff is alright, the issues come where some house flipped messed with it. Some examples (I learned to do electrical pretty fast...)
Where's the ground??? There is ground on the other end...
Fed a ground wire down and used Aluminons to get it connected properly, fitting all that in the box with a GFCI was fun...
WTF is going on here? Just jam all the wire on these lugs. And its done wrong as this outlet does not support Alu. Notice there is two wires on the top screw, and the ground is some weird 18awg wire. Despite the regular ground hanging out in the box!
Took this light off, didn't find a box, found an old bit of wood...
Incorrect Copper to Alu connection just hanging out in the insulation
Not sure why this didn't work...
WTF?
plz no
Awesome
You guys don’t have any kind of home inspections completed prior to making a offer?!? 
Based on those photos lots of illegal wiring that didn’t follow any basic NEC / CEC electrical codes with respect to type of wire, box fill, termination limits.
Never mind it’s apparent there were lots of over current history in that home. The fact the house didn’t burn down to the ground is dumb luck!
Based on those photos lots of illegal wiring that didn’t follow any basic NEC / CEC electrical codes with respect to type of wire, box fill, termination limits.
Never mind it’s apparent there were lots of over current history in that home. The fact the house didn’t burn down to the ground is dumb luck!
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
No home inspections that demand fixes, I had a regular home inspection and went in knowing there was issues
I'm not too fussed, I want the power done the way I want it anyway
I'm not too fussed, I want the power done the way I want it anyway
IReallyLikePizza2
Known around here
My requirement of having AT&T Fiber cut down the house choices a fair amount!
rahhazar
Getting comfortable
Tax credit is just another scam. The price for solar will decrease and quality will improve down the road.
If I were you I would go full on solar and not rely on state electricity any more.