<SOLVED> Notification for whenever a home router is switched off - is there an easy method?

[stephenc]

Our Hikvision IP cameras are installed at remote properties and the easy way to disable them is to simply switch off the router.

Is there any simple method of creating an alert when a router is switched off?

 

[Teken]

Our Hikvision IP cameras are installed at remote properties and the easy way to disable them is to simply switch off the router.

Is there any simple method of creating an alert when a router is switched off?

Without a router there is no outside Internet to than send you an alert message. You’ll need to have another backup source for internet like cellular. Some of the security alarm systems offer dual SIMS while other so called Hot Spots offer the same.

Another possible fail over back up is using a PtP Bridge connected to another person’s Internet.

I installed two of these (PtP Bridges) for a couple of people who needed faster and more reliable internet at their cabin. One person had the PtP bridge installed for exactly the reason stated up above.

 

[user8963]

Without a router there is no outside Internet to than send you an alert message.

you can track down the open port from vpn server...

there are many monitoring tools(online as webservice or as tool on own server/pc) for this .. just check every 10minutes,....

 

[Teken]

you can track down the open port from vpn server...

there are many monitoring tools(online as webservice or as tool on own server/pc) for this .. just check every 10minutes,....

I don’t follow what you’re saying if in the vast majority of times the ISP router / modem is down there is literally no internet. So trying to ping or access the same from the outside would result in what?!?

Nothing . . .

I also don’t understand where this VPN came from?!?

No internet no way to make a secure connection because the router / modem is down.

As stated up above the options are to have another internet backup (wireless) whether it be satellite, cellular, PtP, radio. Even with all of these options there are countless examples as to why someone would still have no internet access whether it be inside vs out.

Think bad port, switch, cable, RF interference, modem hung, no power.

Lots of people fall prey to using a ping service, utility, hardware. On the surface it’s a easy method to determine something but in no way does it ever validate if something (hardware / OS) is fully operational.

Depending upon the type of hardware that is simply a layer 1 event. That could be just the NIC which doesn’t say anything about the software layer.

This is why mission critical systems not only have a ping alive but also send out a heart beat status message indicating all manner of thing from voltage, temperature, uptime, metrics as to some last event etc.

When security is the primary concern the solution must be focused on the same. The only true test is someone / something logging in to view X and to monitor the latency, throughput, and data.

 

[user8963]

So trying to ping or access the same from the outside would result in what?!?

Nothing . . .

right. thats the point and how it works.

you monitor your device from outside, if you cannot reach them then you have a problem. device down or internet down. no matter what the reason is, you have to fix it asap.

the master suggestion is not opening ports and use vpn. so if you use vpn you have to open at least one port which you can monitor.... i disable ping for a good reason in my routers, but sure. you can use a ddns , allow ping from outside and ping the router. i am using mostly site2site connections, so i get a notification if the link is offline, ... but its the same thing .. i keep things simple... so why not using a webservice for monitoring the vpn server and check if reachable every x minutes ?

dont know why you want to make it complicate, but this is the normal way to monitor iot devices.. you can use amazon or google cloud for that... i think they offer it also as a service...


OP wants to get a notfication if router (internet) is offline. For what reason do he need (redundant) internet on site for THIS ?

even a backup internet connection wouldnt be enough. you need a redundant power supply and also a backup battery. what happens after your battery dies ? right you need a generator..

where do you start and where do you end overengineering a simple question: how can i get an alert if my router is offline?

 

[looney2ns]

Works well for my home needs.

Uptime Watchdog

ipcamtalk.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

Err, ahhh....I think that link is broken @looney2ns

 

[Teken]

right. thats the point and how it works.

you monitor your device from outside, if you cannot reach them then you have a problem. device down or internet down. no matter what the reason is, you have to fix it asap.

the master suggestion is not opening ports and use vpn. so if you use vpn you have to open at least one port which you can monitor.... i disable ping for a good reason in my routers, but sure. you can use a ddns , allow ping from outside and ping the router.

dont know why you want to make it complicate, but this is the normal way to monitor iot devices.. you can use amazon or google cloud for that... i think they offer it also as a service...


OP wants to get a notfication if router (internet) is offline. For what reason do he need (redundant) internet on site for THIS ?

even a backup internet connection wouldnt be enough. you need a redundant power supply and also a backup battery. what happens after your battery dies ? right you need a generator..

where do you start and where do you end overengineering a simple question: how can i get an alert if my router is offline?

You missed the whole point I indicated up above. There are countless reasons why something could not be accessed from the outside in. There are countless reasons for something not being able to get outside too.

Just because some service or appliance can’t ping something from another location does not indicate a fatal hardware fault. What I’m trying to impress upon you and everyone else is think big picture. Consider what are the weak points in a specific solution vs others.

It should be apparent I try to bring awareness and insight to discussions as it pertains to a thread. Millions of people everyday rely solely on pinging X vs Y and truly believe that’s the magic bullet.

It’s not and never has . . .

It’s a first line tool to get quick information that should lead someone to take another step. This is why as I stated hardware must be in place that can do something meaningful which offers better insight as to the health of the network and the target device.

At the end of the day it comes down can someone access, control, and view the feed!

The human element of access is the only thing that matters. It doesn’t matter how successful a service / appliance can ping because it doesn’t tell you a computer is hung / locked up. Ever see a ISP remote update a router modem and nothing works yet they can ping the same?!?

Ever have any computer system from Mac OS, Windows, Linux freeze yet a person can ping the same?!?

Pinging something doesn’t offer 100% insight of anything.

 

[user8963]

You missed the whole point I indicated up above. There are countless reasons why something could not be accessed from the outside in. There are countless reasons for something not being able to get outside too.

I understand everything you have said. i agree with you in most ..... BUT

The question was how to SIMPLE get an alert if the router is offline (i.e. no internet).

So you can overengineer the question...
build up a second internet connection (i.e. LTE/4G) ... you have more problems, because these connections block any connection from outside, so you have to use p2p cloud from hikvision or an outside vpn-server and connect it as client...
or.. you send the notification over second internet connection.... but wait...

how do you check if your router is offline ? you need another server(or whatever) inside your site which checks if the router is offline... but wait..

yes. you have the same problems you are talking about. its only INSIDE rather than OUTSIDE. thats why no one is doing this (or better i dont know someone)... you solve one problem and have a ton of critical questions.


again.. if you (or better OP) is not using a vpn, its a good start. No matter what the reason is to not reach the vpn server (internet offline, vpn server died.............) you cannot reach your camera system and have to worry about.
after you get the alert sure, you can wait, try yourself whatever... but you have the alert that you may have a problem. any system send outs alert. its only a notification that a human is need to check whats going on... not call 911

 

[looney2ns]

Err, ahhh....I think that link is broken @looney2ns

Fixed: Thanks, dang fat fingers on a laptop. That's my story.

 

[looney2ns]

My second layer of protection in my usage of the Uptime Watch dog. is if I get an email that it's down, I text the person (my daughter) that lives there and tell her to reboot the BlueIris computer.
Fixed!

 

[Teken]

I understand everything you have said. i agree with you in most ..... BUT

The question was how to SIMPLE get an alert if the router is offline (i.e. no internet).

So you can overengineer the question...
build up a second internet connection (i.e. LTE/4G) ... you have more problems, because these connections block any connection from outside, so you have to use p2p cloud from hikvision or an outside vpn-server and connect it as client...
or.. you send the notification over second internet connection.... but wait...

how do you check if your router is offline ? you need another server(or whatever) inside your site which checks if the router is offline... but wait..

yes. you have the same problems you are talking about. its only INSIDE rather than OUTSIDE. thats why no one is doing this (or better i dont know someone)... you solve one problem and have a ton of critical questions.


again.. if you (or better OP) is not using a vpn, its a good start. No matter what the reason is to not reach the vpn server (internet offline, vpn server died.............) you cannot reach your camera system and have to worry about.
after you get the alert sure, you can wait, try yourself whatever... but you have the alert that you may have a problem. any system send outs alert. its only a notification that a human is need to check whats going on... not call 911

The question from the OP was how to know and receive a message if the router was down for whatever reason. As I noted up above the only true way is to have another method to connect whether it be any of the examples I offered here.

The discussion later proceeded to suggest using whatever to ping. The reasons for not relying on such a single source state was also called out.

Anyone who was affected by AWS, DNS, outage can affirm there was no way to access never mind resolve millions of websites / IP addresses. So if one was to rely on ping alone I or the OP would drive out hundreds of miles to find out all is well?!?

The root cause was a massive DNS DDOS attack on a major provider? AWS one of the largest service providers was off line depending upon where you were was 1-3 days!

So again the failure to ping would have made me or anyone else to go out to find out what?!?

Nothing wrong and wasted trip.

For those reading this, there isn’t a (SSS) single source solution! It requires planning, money, and service / hardware running in parallel which must be monitored by who - Human!

Think multiple ping IP -> SNMP -> DPI Traffic -> Heart Beat -> Inbound Polling -> Verbose Logging etc.

 

[user8963]

As I noted up above the only true way is to have another method to connect

i dont think there is a "true way". it depends on what you want and need. if you want to reach your location 24/7 over internet, a failover or backup connection would be the best way to do this... if you just want a simple notifications about a possible problem, .... i dont think you need a backup internet connection... but someone can build something like this, i call it overengineering a simple "problem" and waste money ... but that is only my opinion

also there are more problems with this solution...
what happens in case of power loss ? You will not have internet on BOTH connections unless you have a battery backup...

not sure about states, but here in europe backup internet connections are somehow useless for critical environment.... after they disabled ISDN your line is not powered anymore. so if there is a huge power loss, no one has internet. even the cell stations are offline because they dont have a battery backup. also everything is connected with fiber... so if the providers fiber switch dies, there is no internet... so you need at least different providers to minimize this problem... we had cases were only ONE server died from provider and all their connections went offline... fiber/cable/dsl/cellular ..... for HOURS. why ? it was the authentification server for all ! they had only ONE .

so you cannot call someone, no internet, no sms . all belongs somehow to power and internet. before this shit happens, we all had isdn which was powered over line miles away and they had battery backup and generators at main station. now you are lost.

you can spin the wheel several times... you can have backups of backups of backups... stored at different locations... all can fail at the same time.. nothing is 100%. the question is only... how much is the price, what are you willing to pay and is there enough knowledge to set it up and manage the problems which may occur or have enough money to pay someone...

 

[eggsan]

in my case, an alarm module will notify (text message) through DSC-Envisalink, as a non-communication (no Internet) through a remote server. That takes several minutes to confirm (communication loss). Another message is generated when communication is establish. Some IP cameras are able to response to missing communication as well, between cameras/servers, but that involve a P2P connection, creating a security issue.

 

[stephenc]

Thanks to everyone for such interesting thoughts and advice, much of which is way over my head.

To give a little bit of history, 2 days ago I had to go to a property because I was unable to view the IP cam protecting it. I was suspicious that for example, the camera might have been pulled off the wall etc. I arrived (outside) and logged wirelessly onto the router to check the port forwarding hadn't reset or that the guests staying at the property hadn't reset the router only to find that everything was working. In the time it took me to drive the half hour to it, the guests must have plugged the router back in. A totally innocent but nevertheless annoying waste of time.

When I posed the question, I was hoping for some sort of solution that would for example be an app or application that would ping my no-ip address every 10 - 15 mins, check that it was received and do nothing else until some point where the ping didn't get through. At that point, I would be alerted by email there was a problem. Does this exist??

Sorry if I have oversimplified my request. The posts above seem to be more for critical situations and mine is anything but that however they are very much appreciated.

 

[user8963]

At that point, I would be alerted by email there was a problem. Does this exist??

for simple ping with email alert ....... www.uptimerobot.com ... or ipct service as looney mention... Uptime Watchdog


but you should rethink your setup... port forwarding ?? no recording of cameras ?? guests who have physical access to routers ??

is this a rent thing ?? if i am a renter of a (vacation) home i would pull out any camera which i could see for sure ...

 

[pete_c]

@stephenc

Is there any simple method of creating an alert when a router is switched off?

If the interest is just to shut off the cameras and if the cameras are connected to a managed switch you can create run OpenVPN server on the firewall such that then you can maybe installed a modded with Tasmota WiFi switch to manage the power of the managed IP camera switch. The modded WiFi switch has it's own web interface where you can also schedule a power on or off.

Internet ==> House #2 ==> Firewall with OpenVPN server running ==>
==> WiFi switch with management GUI ==> Small switch to IP cameras

You then then VPN over to house #2 with computer, tablet, smartphone to shut off and on IP camera switch or put the power on and off on a schedule.

In the old days you could utilize out of band management where the router would have a serial connection to a modem.

An old fashioned alarm panel nowadays uses a cellular connection or copper connection. It typically has both inputs and outputs such that you can connect a relay to one ouput and use that to power on or off a router.

Here utilize two ISP connections to my router. Failover of primary internet connection is an LTE T-Mobile modem. The PFSense firewall fails over to the LTE modem should the primary internet connection fail.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

@Stephen The reality is... there are simple solutions for basic connectivity check which will alert you if a consumer-grade router in a residential neighborhood becomes unreachable. As some pointed out, it will not tell you exactly why it is unreachable. However like a good percentage of folks that come to IPCT, I surmise your are also a residential-class person with a similar budget. So the idea paying someone to watch yo 'stuff' to tell you the exact reason it has gone off the radar is laughable.
Everyone's priorities are different, and it is not an outlandish premise that one might consciously choose to receive only a basic notification when a device is unreachable, fully aware that they will then have to engage in activity x, y, or z to determine if it is an ISP outage, electrical grid outage, etc or the biggest fear... a renter shutting it off. YUP, you might exert efforts to determine why you received an alert, only to confirm it was NOT your worst fear, however it was not 'for nothing' because you have peace of mind knowing it was not intentional mischief. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is what prompted you to post this thread.

Ultimately it is up to each indivdual in this scenario to weigh what personal time and effort they are willing to commit to based on the $$ they can afford to put to towards the monitoring choices avail.

 

[stephenc]

for simple ping with email alert ....... www.uptimerobot.com ... or ipct service as looney mention... Uptime Watchdog

This is the solution I've been looking for (Uptimerobot). Without any cost I can monitor the camera ports and have them checked every 5 mins. It even has an app which runs on my Android.

Unfortunately, there is a cost with ipct Uptime Watchdog once you get past the 1st monitor whereas Uptimerobot will monitor up to 50 free of charge.

but you should rethink your setup... port forwarding ?? no recording of cameras ?? guests who have physical access to routers ??
is this a rent thing ?? if i am a renter of a (vacation) home i would pull out any camera which i could see for sure ...

I am currently rethinking my setup but this takes time, money and expertise. It's the expertise I'm struggling with mostly but can't find someone reliable and not to expensive to take on the project. I'm considering placing a post on ipcamtalk (if permissible) looking for such a person.

Please remember that these are holiday homes / vacation lets and the router is placed beside the telephone point and not locked away which would interfere with the wifi around the properties.

Sorry to hear that you would cause damage to another persons property by pulling a camera off the wall. These cameras are situated on the exterior at the entrance of each property. They provide a safeguard for guests as well as discouraging prostitution and parties - our 2 main issues.

Thanks again for this suggestion of Uptimerobot!

 

[user8963]

Please remember that these are holiday homes / vacation lets and the router is placed beside the telephone point and not locked away which would interfere with the wifi around the properties.

and that will be the main problem.
no one wants to be watched by a stranger beeing in a rent home on holiday !

just think about... your children are playing in yard/pool maybe naked and beeing watched by a creepy landlord ? hell no !

apartment complexes are different. there is a good reason to have a surveillance system 24/7 .... but houses with own yard ?? but sure, depends on where these cameras are mounted and what they record... i would turn them off anyway.. too creepy for me.