Still deciding on which camera to go with

[wittaj]

There is a big debate on which VMS is better - the NVR or Blue Iris.

You would use the app that corresponds with the VMS system you use.

Most here do not use the BI app ($10) and instead use the free built-in UI3 platform that opens in a web browser. The app is only better in that you can do two-way talk with it if your cameras support it (The 4K-X will), but you will find it is gimmicky and after the novelty wears off, you won't use it. It is more walkie-talkie like with a lag delay.

And then if you want push notifications, you can do that with the BI app, but many here prefer the Pushover app ($5) as it provides way more functionality.

All cameras need light - either infrared if they can see it or white visible light. Any visible light works.

Here was a snapshot I got of some mailbox checkers with my 2MP PTZ. 110 feet away. PTZ forced in color. Just coach lights on house:

They do sell special lights, but they are expensive:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1538568-REG/raytec_var2_xtr_w8_1_vario2_extreme_w8_white.html

 

[Termin8r]

I did previously think about having an NVR system as opposed to a personal computer. I was originally looking at some of the amcrest 16 channel 4K nvr setups they had.

So if I use an NVR then that system will use it's own surveillance software? It's built into the NVR?

Blue Iris is only for personal computer setup?

 

[Termin8r]

They do sell special lights, but they are expensive:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1538568-REG/raytec_var2_xtr_w8_1_vario2_extreme_w8_white.html

Yes, that is pricey. I found this smaller one they make which can go up to 197'.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1300040-REG/raytec_var2_w2_1_vario_2_w2_white_light.html

Although it's still a little pricey for what it is. Maybe if they made one at half that lighting distance and price it would be more feasible.

 

[wittaj]

I did previously think about having an NVR system as opposed to a personal computer. I was originally looking at some of the amcrest 16 channel 4K nvr setups they had.

So if I use an NVR then that system will use it's own surveillance software? It's built into the NVR?

Blue Iris is only for personal computer setup?

That is correct - an NVR is a VMS system and has its own software/app for your phone or computer.

Blue Iris is a different VMS system that requires running on a Windows PC and has its own app.

Those lights are expensive, but man are they powerful.

 

[Flintstone61]

Some of us tinkerers have an NVR, a Blue Iris Pc, a Blue Iris App, an NVR app, Pushover App, and more….

 

[Flintstone61]

Im a late adopter of Pushover, but you can quickly see it’s more selective to notifications and better than 300 motion alerts from an NVR, or filling a Hotmail account to the limit with .jpgs

 

[Flintstone61]

You can see BI app has like over 2000 motion events in past 36 hours.
But pushover is only sending me alerts for cars and persons and vehicles
On 3 cams.

 

[bigredfish]

Why so many events?

 

[Termin8r]

The more I think about it the more an NVR sounds like it may be a better approach for me. As it is, I'll need another PC to run these cameras as I don't intend on using my main computer.

If I go with the computer then I would need to either build or buy one. Either way It may end up costing less to just purchase an NVR.

I was checking these out from EmpireTech,

EmpireTech NVR8CH-8P-2AI 8 Channels 1U 8PoE 2HDD

EmpireTech NVR16CH-16P-2AI 16 Channels 1U 16PoE 2HDD

Maybe the 16 channel is overkill for me but only costs a few dollars more. I do also like the smaller footprint by going with the NVR.

Are there any limitations to using an NVR as opposed to the PC with blue iris? Any differences in features, capabilities, AI etc..?

 

[wittaj]

Most of us buy a refurbished PC that comes off a business lease. They usually don't even look like they were used. This option is cheaper than an NVR. An 8th generation can be found for $100ish.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Strong opinions both ways.

Here is the link to the times it has been asked. Read that and see what you think. Most of us BI lovers started with an NVR.

BI versus NVR

 

[bigredfish]

The more I think about it the more an NVR sounds like it may be a better approach for me. As it is, I'll need another PC to run these cameras as I don't intend on using my main computer.

If I go with the computer then I would need to either build or buy one. Either way It may end up costing less to just purchase an NVR.

I was checking these out from EmpireTech,

EmpireTech NVR8CH-8P-2AI 8 Channels 1U 8PoE 2HDD

EmpireTech NVR16CH-16P-2AI 16 Channels 1U 16PoE 2HDD

Maybe the 16 channel is overkill for me but only costs a few dollars more. I do also like the smaller footprint by going with the NVR.

Are there any limitations to using an NVR as opposed to the PC with blue iris? Any differences in features, capabilities, AI etc..?

Limitations - If you plan on using cameras from the same manufacturer, No.
BI does have a few more features, mostly 3rd party integration. Whether you will actually use them is the real question. With newer AI enabled NVR's its much closer than it used to be.

Always get the machine with more channel capacity, if for no other reason that future expansion.

 

[Flintstone61]

Why so many events?

Looks like the Amcrest in the garage gets triggered by flying insects, and of the back yard has branches moving, bunnies hopping, and car headlights going by....I've not visited all the cameras to supertweak them, maybe I should assign to Codeproject to the biggest offender. to stop false movements.

 

[Flintstone61]

resetting alerts to 0 added CP AI to offending cams. Monitoring.....

 

[bigredfish]

Do you not have IVS on the cameras? I can honestly say I'm surprised in the rare times I get a false alert

 

[Termin8r]

Most of us buy a refurbished PC that comes off a business lease. They usually don't even look like they were used. This option is cheaper than an NVR. An 8th generation can be found for $100ish.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Strong opinions both ways.

For $100ish I don't think I'm going to get anything that grand. If I were to go with a PC I would prefer something using an i9 processor. I can see a small form factor PC fitting my area better than a medium or full sized box.

I also like the idea of the NVR box with just a smaller footprint. Can sit up here on the desk without taking too much space.

Thanks for sharing the link. Lot's of reading there.

 

[Termin8r]

Limitations - If you plan on using cameras from the same manufacturer, No.
BI does have a few more features, mostly 3rd party integration. Whether you will actually use them is the real question. With newer AI enabled NVR's its much closer than it used to be.

Always get the machine with more channel capacity, if for no other reason that future expansion.

Yeah, I think I'm going to stick with EmpireTech cameras for now. They seem to have good specs and pricing seems to be better than the Amcrest brand that I was looking at previously.


I do own an Amcrest 8 port POE+ desktop switch that I purchased about 3 years ago. Just never got around to completing the security camera purchases so nothings been installed yet.

So if I go PC route I will already have a POE switch that I can use to get this up all connected.

Still deciding.

 

[wittaj]

For $100ish I don't think I'm going to get anything that grand. If I were to go with a PC I would prefer something using an i9 processor. I can see a small form factor PC fitting my area better than a medium or full sized box.

I also like the idea of the NVR box with just a smaller footprint. Can sit up here on the desk without taking too much space.

Thanks for sharing the link. Lot's of reading there.

People run over 30 cameras on a 4th gen they picked up at a county auction for $25.

You don't need to go with the latest and greatest computer.

We would still recommend a 6th gen if it weren't for you can't put Win11 on it.

So the minimum we recommend is an 8th gen that can be picked up for $100ish and the HP Elitedesk SFF is not much bigger than an NVR and RDP into it and you can place it anywhere you got a network cable! You don't need a mouse and keyboard and monitor for your BI computer, just remote desktop into it.

But that is the nice thing about BI is that you can try before you buy.

Give it a try with one camera and use the DMSS app to see the look/feel of using the NVR app and then try BI and get a feel for which one you like better before making the expense on either.

Thread 'My humble i5-4590 still humming along with 30+ cams:'

Apr 23, 2022

I see people posting about their i7-xxxx system bogging down with less than 10 cameras so I wanted to update my setup.

I have ~33 cams running on my BI system:

• HP Elitedesk 800 G1 tower
• i5-4590 @ 3.3GHz
• 16GB ram
• 12TB total purple drives for storage
• 30+ total cams currently - 22 cams visible in screenshot below (+8+ hidden)
• cams recording at 10-15 fps with audio
• Recording 24/7 with nearly all cams using substream with mainstream on triggers and running Intel hardware acceleration
  • I've tried running HA both on and off and haven't conclusively seen if it helps...

• bradner
• Replies: 38
• Forum: General BI Talk

• 
• 

 

[Termin8r]

So the minimum we recommend is an 8th gen that can be picked up for $100ish and the HP Elitedesk SFF is not much bigger than an NVR and RDP into it and you can place it anywhere you got a network cable! You don't need a mouse and keyboard and monitor for your BI computer, just remote desktop into it.

Thanks for suggesting the EliteDesk SFF. That is a nice small footprint. I spent some time online researching that desktop and finally settled with the following;

HP EliteDesk 800 G5 SFF i7-9700 3.0Ghz 16GB.

Planning to upgrade this to either 32 or 64GB Mem. Also can accommodate 2 SATA 7200 HD's and NVMe SSD drive. Thinking of dropping a 10TB purple pro drive.

Purchased this for $275 which seemed like a good price for these specs at this time.

By the way, do you just use the Microsoft remote desktop or is there any other recommended app for remote logging?

 

[Termin8r]

But that is the nice thing about BI is that you can try before you buy.

Give it a try with one camera and use the DMSS app to see the look/feel of using the NVR app and then try BI and get a feel for which one you like better before making the expense on either.

Thanks for letting me know about the DMSS app. I found this on the app store. I can use this app on my phone to view these cameras without having an NVR installed?

Using the app I can connect directly to these cameras for viewing?

So the DMSS software resembles using an nvr system?

Trying to make sure I understand all this correctly.


Also, is there any particular app suggested to use on my phone? Or would the DMSS app be best or something more like the BI app?

You also mentioned a browser based UI3 platform. Do I need to install anything on my phone for this to work? Or just launch the browser and enter an IP address to gain access to all installed cameras?

 

[wittaj]

Thanks for suggesting the EliteDesk SFF. That is a nice small footprint. I spent some time online researching that desktop and finally settled with the following;

HP EliteDesk 800 G5 SFF i7-9700 3.0Ghz 16GB.

Planning to upgrade this to either 32 or 64GB Mem. Also can accommodate 2 SATA 7200 HD's and NVMe SSD drive. Thinking of dropping a 10TB purple pro drive.

Purchased this for $275 which seemed like a good price for these specs at this time.

By the way, do you just use the Microsoft remote desktop or is there any other recommended app for remote logging?

That's awesome!

Once you get it, the first thing to do is to use the Windows Media Creation tool to put a clean Windows install on it without all the HP bloatware and locking down of drivers.

Many here use Microsoft Remote Desktop because it just works. Some have used some other remote viewing platform.