Still deciding on which camera to go with

[wittaj]

Thanks for letting me know about the DMSS app. I found this on the app store. I can use this app on my phone to view these cameras without having an NVR installed?

Using the app I can connect directly to these cameras for viewing?

So the DMSS software resembles using an nvr system?

Trying to make sure I understand all this correctly.


Also, is there any particular app suggested to use on my phone? Or would the DMSS app be best or something more like the BI app?

You also mentioned a browser based UI3 platform. Do I need to install anything on my phone for this to work? Or just launch the browser and enter an IP address to gain access to all installed cameras?

The major difference is with an NVR you can sort by the AI stuff. With just DMSS and an SD card in the camera, it will be event lines on a timeline. I did that when I had one camera that turned into two, turned into 3 and then without a NVR controlling everything, it was useless.

The BI app will only work if you have BI running on a computer.

Unless you do some weird stuff, you wouldn't run DMSS and BI. Most of us isolate the cameras from the internet via dual NIC in the BI computer, so DMSS can't access the cameras. You would have to put the cameras on the same IP subnet as everything else for DMSS to work.

Yep the UI3 is just open a browser on your phone and type in the IP address and probably need the port number like :80 or :81, whichever BI is.

 

[Keizer]

Thanks for suggesting the EliteDesk SFF. That is a nice small footprint. I spent some time online researching that desktop and finally settled with the following;

HP EliteDesk 800 G5 SFF i7-9700 3.0Ghz 16GB.

Where did you purchase the HP from?

 

[Termin8r]

That's awesome!

Once you get it, the first thing to do is to use the Windows Media Creation tool to put a clean Windows install on it without all the HP bloatware and locking down of drivers.

Thank you. I'm excited. Can't wait to get all this together.


Will definitely do the clean windows install as you mentioned and get this on Win 11. Not sure which drivers I should be locking down. You mean like turning off any unnecessary drivers that are silencing running in the background?

Not sure if there's any particular processes that should be killed.

Many here use Microsoft Remote Desktop because it just works. Some have used some other remote viewing platform.

I have mostly used TeamViewer and radmin. Wondered if there may have been something better. I may try the Microsoft RDP.

Will be dropping BI on this setup. By the way, is there any good BI walkthroughs or videos you know of that may help a novice/beginner get acquainted and or help guide us through the setup on BI?

 

[wittaj]

Thank you. I'm excited. Can't wait to get all this together.


Will definitely do the clean windows install as you mentioned and get this on Win 11. Not sure which drivers I should be locking down. You mean like turning off any unnecessary drivers that are silencing running in the background?

Not sure if there's any particular processes that should be killed.


I have mostly used TeamViewer and radmin. Wondered if there may have been something better. I may try the Microsoft RDP.

It hasn't been as much of an issue lately, but in the past video driver updates would play havoc with BI. OR they manufacturer driver was wonky with BI and you couldn't change it to a stable one as the locked them down to only their variant of the driver.

One of the many reasons why many here turn off Windows updates so that they don't sneak something in and mess up BI. And if you don't use the computer for anything but as an NVR (ie don't use it to surf the web), the risk is pretty low of something happening. It still has up to date antivirus on it, unlike an NVR. It could still be exploited, but anything touching the internet can.

Many here use TeamViewer as well.

 

[Termin8r]

The major difference is with an NVR you can sort by the AI stuff. With just DMSS and an SD card in the camera, it will be event lines on a timeline. I did that when I had one camera that turned into two, turned into 3 and then without a NVR controlling everything, it was useless.

Seems like having the ability to sort by AI stuff can be useful or nice as opposed to a bunch of random event lines. Is this type of sorting possible using BI or only can be done with NVR setup?

The BI app will only work if you have BI running on a computer.

OK, got it. Thanks for letting me know that.

Unless you do some weird stuff, you wouldn't run DMSS and BI. Most of us isolate the cameras from the internet via dual NIC in the BI computer, so DMSS can't access the cameras. You would have to put the cameras on the same IP subnet as everything else for DMSS to work.

Dual NIC? You mean like having two network cards installed in my PC?

I do have an 8 port amcrest POE+ switch (that's never been used) that I plan to utilize. Will I need anything else?

I believe if I connect my three cameras to the POE+ switch, which will then connect to my main home switch, this should keep it all on the same subnet right?

Is keeping it on the same subnet only necessary if using something like the DMSS app?

 

[Termin8r]

Where did you purchase the HP from?

Walmart, third party seller selling refurbished equipment. Hopefully it will work without any issues. It was listed as being "Like New". 90 day returns and free shipping.

 

[wittaj]

Seems like having the ability to sort by AI stuff can be useful or nice as opposed to a bunch of random event lines. Is this type of sorting possible using BI or only can be done with NVR setup?


OK, got it. Thanks for letting me know that.


Dual NIC? You mean like having two network cards installed in my PC?

I do have an 8 port amcrest POE+ switch (that's never been used) that I plan to utilize. Will I need anything else?

I believe if I connect my three cameras to the POE+ switch, which will then connect to my main home switch, this should keep it all on the same subnet right?

Is keeping it on the same subnet only necessary if using something like the DMSS app?

Viewing alerts by AI can be done with either BI or an NVR.

Yes, most of us will have two network cards in the PC - one for the internet on our LAN IP subnet and then the other one is for the cameras only on a different subnet.

It is best to not give the cameras internet access. Believe me, with BI you will not want to use the DMSS app!

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi cameras or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.





If you go the NVR route, the NVR essentially acts as a dual NIC/router and the POE ports are assigned the 10.1.1.x subnet and thus you cannot access them from your LAN either.

 

[Termin8r]

Viewing alerts by AI can be done with either BI or an NVR.

OK, thanks for confirming that. Nice to know.

I understand what you were saying now. If you were only running a camera connected directly to your network without using BI or an NVR and viewing the feed solely off the SD card with just the DMSS phone app nothing would be sorted.

I had to read that twice before understanding what you said. Heh. Thanks for clarifying.

Yes, most of us will have two network cards in the PC - one for the internet on our LAN IP subnet and then the other one is for the cameras only on a different subnet.

Thanks for showing that illustration photo. That's genius. I would never have thought to connect it the way you mentioned using two network cards.

I'll set this all up as shown in the photo. Will get me another nic. Time to go hunting for a low profile nic card for the new PC.

Would I be disabling the internet on the second nic being used for the cameras?

It is best to not give the cameras internet access. Believe me, with BI you will not want to use the DMSS app!

Cameras connected to Wifi routers (whether wifi cameras or not) are problematic for surveillance cameras because they are always streaming and passing data. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to send cameras through a wifi router. At the very least it can slow down your entire system.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent, especially once you start adding distance. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes - mine goes 45 seconds. Now do the same with a camera connected to a router and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

The same issue applies even with the hard-wired cameras trying to send all this non-buffer video stream through a router. Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues. The consumer routers are just not designed for this kind of traffic, even a GB speed router.

That makes a lot of sense. You know your stuff.

I won't use the DMSS app. I may go BI app on my phone but will first focus on getting this all setup on the pc using BI.

Is there any good BI walkthroughs or videos you know of that may help a novice/beginner get acquainted and or help guide us through the setup of BI on our PC?

 

[Flintstone61]

Do you not have IVS on the cameras? I can honestly say I'm surprised in the rare times I get a false alert

Whats IVS? LOL
I'll have to research that.
I think I'd have to enable ONVIF triggers in BI to use that?
I enabled Code project GPU version on about 70 % of cams.
Esp. the ones with too many alerts. Now things have quieted down.
The Alerts list in the garage is now empty over night all the way back until 3:49Pm yesterday when we last took the car out.
So events are easier to skim thru now because the false alerts are gone.