Storage Expansion - X54A5L

wittaj

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I suspect the resolution is set to that due to the limits of decoding of your XVR.

You can increase the resolution until you start getting No Signals. Once a camera loses signal, you have exceeded the capabilities of the unit and lowering the resolution will get the cameras back.

My neighbor is in a similar boat - has 4K cameras, but his NVR limits him to 4092 bitrate at 4K which is too low for 4K cameras.
 
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I tried switching a 1080p camera up to 5mp and it didn't lose signal; but if I start doing this for more of them it's got me wondering because I know we have cameras that are daisy-chained through our network switch; am I right to assume that can interfere with quality due to the inability to carry more than X amount of data through a single line at once?
 
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Among other many reasons, yes we also go with BI as it doesn't limit us to brand of camera and inevitably someone buys an 8 channel NVR and then wants to add a 9th camera and now it is a new NVR. BI limit is 64 cameras.

And all NVRs are not created equal - they are limited in decoding and have a bandwidth limit that can result in having to downgrade resolution. So some folks need 2 or 3 NVRs for their camera system as they have all high MP cams.

A used business class PC and BI software is cheaper than a capable NVR.


I had NVRs for many years. It was a frustrating experience.

There is a big debate here on which is better. Personally I found the NVRs to be too clunky and not very user friendly and got to the point that I was reactive instead of proactive. I literally tested BI and knew within a few minutes it was better than any NVR I ever had.

Like literally I would go months on end not even looking at the NVR videos because the interface was too clunky and would take forever to pull up any motion from the night before. And ended up turning off the alerts because there were so many false triggers. I would only look at it if I could tell someone messed with something on my property or a neighbor asked me if my cameras caught anything.

With BI, in addition to being able to configure it such that I get notifications whenever someone gets too close to my house, I can literally in less than 30 seconds every morning do a quick review to see if there was any suspicious activity or people walking down the sidewalk at 2am. I could never do it that fast with an NVR.

Here is the search tool of all the NVR versus BI comparisons:

blue iris vs nvr ip cam site:ipcamtalk.com - Google Search


I have had whatever the NVR operating system is running on go out. TWICE. Got to buy a whole new NVR - TWICE

I have had the ethernet port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

i had the HDMI port go out on an NVR. Got to buy a whole new NVR.

Most I ever got was 2.5 years. The only working part was the HDD that I simply moved from the old NVR to the new one. I got to the point of realizing that an NVR is simply a stripped down computer, so I went to BI and never looked back. I got tired of buying a whole new unit.

So in my BI Computer, at least if the SSD goes out, I can just replace it. If the ethernet card goes out, I can just replace it. If the HDMI port goes out, I can just replace it. etc.

Personally I gave up on NVRs because I have found them to be clunky and a struggle to review clips and if a component goes out like the internet port, then you are stuck buying a new NVR whereas a computer part goes out and you replace just that component. I went to BI on a dedicated machine and haven't looked back.

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....

One of many areas where I think BI does a better job is how it displays the alerts/timeline, and I believe it is still the same as when I last ran SmartPSS and DMSS.

As we can see from this screenshot, it gives a green timeline with lines at various times to show when it triggered. Over to the right is a graphic/text representation of each trigger, but no image of the trigger.

1676253571095.png



So when I wanted to find or look at something, I needed to click each one until I found what I was looking for.

Wanna know when UPS came by in an NVR....well just start clicking on the timeline triggers till you see the UPS truck. May take awhile depending on the amount of traffic that goes by.

With BI, it gives alert thumbnails, so I can quickly scroll and find UPS way quicker than I ever could with an NVR playback timeline.


1672707276383.png




Or if you want to be notified when UPS, or FEDEX, or USPS comes by, with BI AI, you can set up an alert just for those vehicles. Good luck doing that with an NVR.

But to me, the thumbnails are invaluable. I can quickly scroll it at night and look for any activity instead of having to click each one and be like "oh that is John coming home" If I recognize the vehicle or person in the image, no need to investigate further.

Wow that's got me sold on BI already; I hate reviewing footage on the NVR- whenever we discover a theft or tampering; we have literally sat here and watched though DAYS of footage at x8 speeds
 

wittaj

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I tried switching a 1080p camera up to 5mp and it didn't lose signal; but if I start doing this for more of them it's got me wondering because I know we have cameras that are daisy-chained through our network switch; am I right to assume that can interfere with quality due to the inability to carry more than X amount of data through a single line at once?
Yeah if they are going thru a switch that goes thru the router, you could start to see degradation of your network. The cameras themselves are fine thru one cable, but routers cannot handle the datahog of high MP cameras - unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer, these cameras do not, so off of a sudden if it drops a packet it starts over and you can see your whole network suffer.
 
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Fortunately we have a dedicated network for them; but all this info is going to really help us with gradually working out all the kinks that are causing our footage to look so crappy.

We've literally resorted to setting up Ring and Reolink solar cameras to monitor more heavy traffic areas because the UI is easier to use and the footage is higher quality than our existing 5mp setups
 
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I am a little confused by what you have stated. At one point you state that you have 2-5MP cams but in another entry you state that you have 4K cams.

Just how many cams are hooked up to this NVR and what are their resolutions?

Realize that most installers will not recommend anything but an NVR or a very pricey VMS. BI is usually not something that they will recommend nor support. From a homeowner perspective that is just fine for me. But a business may find that hard to swallow.
 
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I am a little confused by what you have stated. At one point you state that you have 2-5MP cams but in another entry you state that you have 4K cams.

Just how many cams are hooked up to this NVR and what are their resolutions?

Realize that most installers will not recommend anything but an NVR or a very pricey VMS. BI is usually not something that they will recommend nor support. From a homeowner perspective that is just fine for me. But a business may find that hard to swallow.
Bear with me as I'm learning a lot of new stuff about video formatting.

We have 32 cameras; frankly I don't even know what model or specifications they have because our installer keeps a much as he can to himself, so we have to call him for help. $$$$....

Looking in Rec Estimate in my storage settings; most are set to 1920x1080, while I have others ranging up to 2688x1520.
 
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Looking in Rec Estimate in my storage settings; most are set to 1920x1080, while I have others ranging up to 2688x1520.
Those are 2MP and 4MP cams.

You have more cams than myself but are in the same resolution ballpark and roughly the same amount of storage. The only way you will get several weeks of storage is to not record at full resolution or at max bit rate. Frame rate will also impact this.
 
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The installer should have given the company a bill which should list all of the hardware they installed, including model and serial numbers. If not, how would you know if you got what you paid for?
 
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The installer should have given the company a bill which should list all of the hardware they installed, including model and serial numbers. If not, how would you know if you got what you paid for?
He goes straight to the owner with it- who has no idea what any of it means. Quite frustrating for the end users who are left in the dark :poop:
 

bigredfish

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Better NVRs are quite good and not quite as bad as some like to make them out. Is there a difference between cheap ones and good ones? Yes.
Yes BI has some advanced features that most NVRs do not. We;re not talking a bunch but some. Knowing how to use them makes a big difference.
What you have is an XVR, meaning it’s primarily made to run analog cameras but can also run IP cams. It’s not exactly top of the line. Im guessing you have a bunch of analog cameras. and obviously a mix of various cams with various resolutions. Did you know each camera has its own OSD (analog cams) or web UI (IP cams) menu beyond that of the NVR?

I just left a buddys house with a 24ch NVR, 21 cams, a mix of 4MP (6) and 2MP (15). All run high bitrate (6144 for the 2MP and 8192 for the 4MP) and most 30FPS.
It records full time and AI events and he gets 12 days worth out of 2 6TB drives
pete21cams.jpg

As I mentioned, the web interface is far better than the machine interface so use it to compare to BI. Tools like SmartPSS make live viewing, playback, searching and downloading clips even easier.

I've had a number of NVRs and installed quite a few others for friends. I can count 6-7 off the top of my head that have been running since 2017. Like a PC, the HD is typically the thing to go

PC VMS too have limits or realistic restrictions on bandwidth and decoding,.

A good NVR will set you back $400 plus HDs.

Once you learn how to use the search interface and 3rd party tools like SmartPSS, playback is no more difficult or time consuming than with BI. BI can identify various objects like FEDEX and UPS yes, I believe with 3rd party add-ons? While it may take an extra 60-90 seconds, I can find the same viewing AI thumbnails or use the timeline as needed to check various events across multiple cameras .
facedetect1.jpg IVSdatabse1.jpg IVSdatabse2.jpg smartpssplayback1.jpg

Alerts and false triggers are mainly the result of bad settings on the camera, not the NVR or BI. I rarely get false alerts.
NVR s can indeed send alert emails, and push notifications.
 
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bigredfish

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I suspect the resolution is set to that due to the limits of decoding of your XVR.

You can increase the resolution until you start getting No Signals. Once a camera loses signal, you have exceeded the capabilities of the unit and lowering the resolution will get the cameras back.

My neighbor is in a similar boat - has 4K cameras, but his NVR limits him to 4092 bitrate at 4K which is too low for 4K cameras.
That must be a very cheap or very old NVR.
Many NVRs, like mine that is 3 years old, show suggested bitrates max at say 6144 or 8192, but will allow you to customize the rate much higher.

Typically you’re always better off setting most things on the individual camera UI itself and not the NVR or BI. I have a 4K camera running at 16,384 bitrate. The NVR shows a max of 8192 but as shown in another recent thread the camera is recording on the NVR at 16MB
 

wittaj

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That must be a very cheap or very old NVR.
Many NVRs, like mine that is 3 years old, show suggested bitrates max at say 6144 or 8192, but will allow you to customize the rate much higher.

Typically you’re always better off setting most things on the individual camera UI itself and not the NVR or BI. I have a 4K camera running at 16,384 bitrate. The NVR shows a max of 8192 but as shown in another recent thread the camera is recording on the NVR at 16MB
Yeah his system is at least 3 years old and is one of those 4K Lorex specials from Costco that have 88Mbps bandwidth limitation.
 
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Better NVRs are quite good and not quite as bad as some like to make them out. Is there a difference between cheap ones and good ones? Yes.
Yes BI has some advanced features that most NVRs do not. We;re not talking a bunch but some. Knowing how to use them makes a big difference.
What you have is an XVR, meaning it’s primarily made to run analog cameras but can also run IP cams. It’s not exactly top of the line. Im guessing you have a bunch of analog cameras. and obviously a mix of various cams with various resolutions. Did you know each camera has its own OSD (analog cams) or web UI (IP cams) menu beyond that of the NVR?


Alerts and false triggers are mainly the result of bad settings on the camera, not the NVR or BI. I rarely get false alerts.
NVR s can indeed send alert emails, and push notifications.
Actually we have only one analog camera left now. They all went IP after a thief cut our conduit open.

I wasn't aware that each camera had its own settings beyond what I can do on the machine UI. Is that something were I'd be logging into each camera individually at a specific IP address?
 

wittaj

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Actually we have only one analog camera left now. They all went IP after a thief cut our conduit open.

I wasn't aware that each camera had its own settings beyond what I can do on the machine UI. Is that something were I'd be logging into each camera individually at a specific IP address?
Yes, you log into each camera via web browser and IP address (Internet Explorer preferably and yes we know it is no longer supported blah blah blah LOL but these cameras are sensitive to browsers) and make changes.
 

bigredfish

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You can skip the initial setup, but starting with #3 may be helpful. Really doesnt matter whether your NVR has its own PoE ports or not, same stuff applies

***PSA for those with a New DAHUA NVR with Built-in PoE switch

Also
C- I’ve found it works best not to mess with any settings other than Network and Recording schedule on the NVR. I make all Image, Exposure, Event, and FPS/Bitrate changes on the camera itself >>>> and it pushes them to the NVR fine. Making image and Event changes on the NVR does not always push them correctly to the camera however.

D- For day to day viewing/playback and downloading of clips on your home network, simply download and install Dahua SmartPSS on a computer on that network and use it. This is simpler and better than trying to use the NVR web interface all the time just to view cameras or download footage. That said, dont try and use SmartPSS to adjust or mange the camera image or Event/MD/IVS settings Do this on the camera itself.

E) Note: Its best to limit changes to Image, Encoding, Bitrate/FPS, IVS, Motion Detection, etc to one device or the other, I recommend using the camera interface. If you make some changes on the camera and others on the NVR, it will mess up something eventually
 
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