Ukraine related: Was Ukraine Government Is Handing Out Guns To Citizens, What Happened to Gun Control?

Should UKRAINE consider NEGOTIATIONS?
 
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There can't be a negotiation. If Russia gets to keep 1 inch of land, there will be inavsions of other countries in the future, Putins already threatened Poland, he wants part of Moldova, etc. If he gains he wins.
 
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Why should they? Sure, if Putin says he will completely withdraw from all occupied Ukrainian territory and agree to pay war reparations....then yes.

And to look at it in another light, why would Ukraine negotiate when they are receiving so many hand outs?

No, I am NOT A FAN of us sending them M1 tanks or Bradly's. Nope.

In the end, I would love to see Ukraine take and keep some Russian land. That would be great!

Putin, you are a fuking idiot. You have ruined your country and made your military into a laughing stock. And lets not even mention all of the THOUSANDS of innocent people that have died.
 
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SJGUSMC21 said:
Russian tanks are very similar to our WWII Sherman tanks. When hit, they go BOOM. We learned our lesson the hard way, apparently the Russian Defense Agency did not.
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Modern anti tank weapons is still vastly superior to any tank armor including every single western tank.
And M1A2 Abrams also go boom when they are hit. Below is from yemen, with soviet era weapons and clones, operated by some rag doll Islamists. Imagine the more modern russian weapons, with vastly superior training and recon in ukraine battle ground.


In fact M1 abrams also easier to spot from drones, we will rarely see 1 vs 1 tank engagement, even if we do they are at less then 0.5 mile distance. So the supposed western tank optics superiority is irrelevant in such urban/tree dense combat situation.

Most incoming western tanks are going to be taken out by artillery and drones.
 
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wrapter said:
Modern anti tank weapons is still vastly superior to any tank armor including every single western tank.
And M1A2 Abrams also go boom when they are hit. Below is from yemen, with soviet era weapons and clones, operated by some rag doll Islamists. Imagine the more modern russian weapons, with vastly superior training and recon in ukraine battle ground.


In fact M1 abrams also easier to spot from drones, we will rarely see 1 vs 1 tank engagement, even if we do they are at less then 0.5 mile distance. So the supposed western tank optics superiority is irrelevant in such urban/tree dense combat situation.

Most incoming western tanks are going to be taken out by artillery and drones.
Click to expand...


Ok
 
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wrapter said:
Modern anti tank weapons is still vastly superior to any tank armor including every single western tank.
And M1A2 Abrams also go boom when they are hit. Below is from yemen, with soviet era weapons and clones, operated by some rag doll Islamists. Imagine the more modern russian weapons, with vastly superior training and recon in ukraine battle ground.


In fact M1 abrams also easier to spot from drones, we will rarely see 1 vs 1 tank engagement, even if we do they are at less then 0.5 mile distance. So the supposed western tank optics superiority is irrelevant in such urban/tree dense combat situation.

Most incoming western tanks are going to be taken out by artillery and drones.
Click to expand...


Somethings telling me this post will not age well. Linked below is an added incentive for Razi's wishing to try their luck :rofl:



 
mat200 said:
Should UKRAINE consider NEGOTIATIONS?
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For me a fair and just settlement would be along the lines of

Russia withdraws from Ukraine in its entirety
Russia and Ukraine held to account in the Hague for any war crimes.
Russia paying reparations to rebuild Ukraine housing infrastructure manufacturing etc.
Along with an easing of sanctions Russia subsidising fuel and food for a number of years for the worldwide increases we have seen.
A demilitarized zone of approx 80km inside Russia where it borders Ukraine. Any build up of artillery or troops like we seem pre 24th February would be handled accordingly.

We can debate who buys the tea and sandwiches:)
 
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wrapter said:
Modern anti tank weapons is still vastly superior to any tank armor including every single western tank.
And M1A2 Abrams also go boom when they are hit. Below is from yemen, with soviet era weapons and clones, operated by some rag doll Islamists. Imagine the more modern russian weapons, with vastly superior training and recon in ukraine battle ground.


In fact M1 abrams also easier to spot from drones, we will rarely see 1 vs 1 tank engagement, even if we do they are at less then 0.5 mile distance. So the supposed western tank optics superiority is irrelevant in such urban/tree dense combat situation.

Most incoming western tanks are going to be taken out by artillery and drones.
Click to expand...


Not quite true. No country has ever destroyed a Challenger 2. In fact during the Gulf war, one was reportedly hit by a Milan AT and 14 RPG's anti-tank rounds, and was still in the fight. It had some repairs at a later date but both it and the crew survived. There are some later rumours of an rpg on another tank penetrating the lower front armour and wounding a soldier, however, even if true and a weak point was discovered, the Challenger 2 still has some of the best armour and protection in the world and it still remains undestroyed.
 
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A notable individual for all the wrong reasons. Updated post with some additional Twitter links








Rogues gallery from above thread. Some notable and relevant and some like to think they are notable and relevant :D

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CCTVCam said:
Not quite true. No country has ever destroyed a Challenger 2. In fact during the Gulf war, one was reportedly hit by a Milan AT and 14 RPG's anti-tank rounds, and was still in the fight. It had some repairs at a later date but both it and the crew survived. There are some later rumours of an rpg on another tank penetrating the lower front armour and wounding a soldier, however, even if true and a weak point was discovered, the Challenger 2 still has some of the best armour and protection in the world and it still remains undestroyed.
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Just because its wasn't destroyed by a Saddam Iraqi army 20 to 30 years back, doesn't mean it will be the same now.
Anti Tank weapons have come a long way.
The pentagon has banned Iraqi forces from buying the latest RPG variants due to fear of it going to be ending up with ISIS, why because those latest RPG variants even in their export form/ clone variant has been able to penetrate the M1 Abrams.
ATGM is even more deadly then a RPG.

The challenger tank armor was also penetrated and its no rumor. There is a lot of cover up when western hardware is destroyed. The tweet I linked of M1 Abrams being blown up has been deleted even with Elon taking over twitter why because it will impact it sales.
First casualty of war is truth.
 
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Jokes from the front, some magic and a couple of mad cats. Always time for some humour :)

Those following should know the individuals mentioned below





 
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SJGUSMC21 said:
500k troops.....where TF did they get them from? Probably more like conscripts, aka: canon fodder.

I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. But this POS is destroying his own country. I wonder how long until they have had enough?
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Good question re the numbers. From what I have gathered there was approx 200k for the initial invasion. That didn't work out too well so they had mobilisation about 6 months later and officially declared they signed up another 320k. Unofficially this has never ended though. Also factor in Wagner Nazi group with prisoners 50k other groups from Chechnya, Syria and elsewhere guessing another 50k.

That's about 620k total in my book but those killed and wounded already (this is a huge figure) need to be subtracted.

Assuming the numbers reported are correct for me the only explanation is the continued unofficial mobilisation. There's widespread reports of people still willing or if not willing being abducted / forced to serve. Ethnic minorities far away from Moscow and St Petersburg receive special attention in this regard.

And all for what?

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The Russian people let him do this, so.....

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SJGUSMC21 said:
I have tremendous respect for the Russian people. But this POS is destroying his own country. I wonder how long until they have had enough?
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Reminds me of Joe Blogs videos about the demographic time bomb that awaits. He has several videos on this topic and one is linked below.

Before the war the population structure was already leading to a disproportionately high aged population that will need supported due to a low birth rate in the 80's / 90's. Of the lower \ middle age group there's a deficit of men compared to women. Factoring in the war many men ( rumoured 180k) have been killed / disabled and will be unable to work. Many (rumoured 700k) also left the country to escape mobilisation or relocated to other countries when western companies pulled the plug.

This deficit of men of working age is drastically increasing as they are continuing to be killed / wounded or are relocating. Hence the time bomb. An interesting video that explains it way better than i can.


 
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