Ukraine related: Was Ukraine Government Is Handing Out Guns To Citizens, What Happened to Gun Control?

[bigredfish]

Propaganda putting truth tellers on a propaganda list

Ukraine Issues Blacklist Of 'Russian Propagandists', Includes US Senator & Prominent Journalists | ZeroHedge

 

[tigerwillow1]

The same story hit newsweek too:
Tulsi Gabbard, Rand Paul Placed on List of Russian Propagandists by Ukraine

Starting with some of my base beliefs:
1. I consider Rand Paul one of the most knowledgeable and honest congress members
2. Tulsi has to me become one of the more level headed and honest political figures
3. Glenn Greenwald (one of the blacklist members) is on my very short list of trusted journalists

Adding to that, that they are Russian propagandists.

Simple logic says that russian propaganda is the truth.

 

[mat200]

The same story hit newsweek too:
Tulsi Gabbard, Rand Paul Placed on List of Russian Propagandists by Ukraine

Starting with some of my base beliefs:
1. I consider Rand Paul one of the most knowledgeable and honest congress members
2. Tulsi has to me become one of the more level headed and honest political figures
3. Glenn Greenwald (one of the blacklist members) is on my very short list of trusted journalists

Adding to that, that they are Russian propagandists.

Simple logic says that russian propaganda is the truth.

"Simple logic says that Russian propaganda is the truth." - I think we can fully test that thesis ...



In terms of Ukraine, they are in a battle for their existence .. and just like the USA when in battle, all sorts of nay sayers do get put into a penalty box if you threaten the actions which the national Government determines is required to win the war.

Just look at the narrative the United States put into play to force an alliance with the USSR to defeat Nazi Germany in WWII.

Just one example:

Both the UK and USA did what they could to deny the evidence of the brutality of the Soviet Union in WWII:

Records Relating to the Katyn Forest Massacre at the National Archives:

The official American response at the time was one of non-involvement. In a June 1943 telegram to Churchill, Roosevelt expressed approval that the British approach to Stalin was grounded "upon the obvious necessity of creating the most favorable conditions for bringing the full weight of the armed forces of all the United Nations to bear upon the common enemy....The winning of the war is the paramount objective for all of us. For this unity is necessary."

..

The Madden Committee ( in 1951 ) determined unanimously that the NKVD was responsible for the executions, and recommended a trial before the International World Court of Justice. The question of an American cover-up was less clear cut. In its final report, the committee concluded that American officials failed to properly evaluate and act upon clear danger signals in Russian behavior evident as early as 1942. In addition, the committee found that American policy toward the Soviet Union might have been different if information deliberately withheld from the public had been made available sooner.

..

ref:

Records Relating to the Katyn Forest Massacre at the National Archives

Summary of Events Enlarge From Record Group 59, General Records of the Department of State, Central Decimal File, 1940-1944, box 2919, folder 740.00116 EW/1010 53 Photos and Related Documents, Letter from Burton Y. Berry, American Consul General, Istanbul, Turkey Forwarding German Propaganda...

www.archives.gov

Thus, I would expect Ukraine to do whatever they need to do to maximize their chance for survival when the USA and UK did the same in the past. ( often the issue of survival was no longer the case for the UK and USA .. yet, they felt the need to manipulate the story as they saw fit .. )

 

[bigredfish]

I don’t deny it’s simply a tactic, I don’t begrudge them for doing what they think necessary for their survival.
I’m just saying as did @tigerwillow1 that they picked in this case, obvious known truth tellers and it’s gonna fall flat.

 

[bigredfish]

The same story hit newsweek too:
Tulsi Gabbard, Rand Paul Placed on List of Russian Propagandists by Ukraine

Starting with some of my base beliefs:
1. I consider Rand Paul one of the most knowledgeable and honest congress members
2. Tulsi has to me become one of the more level headed and honest political figures
3. Glenn Greenwald (one of the blacklist members) is on my very short list of trusted journalists

Adding to that, that they are Russian propagandists.

Simple logic says that russian propaganda is the truth.

You know things are off the rails when one of the most trusted journalists (oxymoron I know) we respect is a flaming liberal.

 

[tigerwillow1]

You know things are off the rails when one of the most trusted journalists (oxymoron I know) we respect is a flaming liberal.

Greenwald is the rare honest flaming liberal, and I have a lot of respect for him despite his horrid political leanings. Tulsi is acting like she's seen the light about how dishonest and destructive the liberals are but I'm still suspicious with her. It's telling how the democrats went full blast to destroy her for daring to not be 100% pure with their agenda. You're right that ukraine picked the wrong people to smear. They're going to lose some of whatever credibility they have left.

 

[Griswalduk]

The same story hit newsweek too:
Tulsi Gabbard, Rand Paul Placed on List of Russian Propagandists by Ukraine

Starting with some of my base beliefs:
1. I consider Rand Paul one of the most knowledgeable and honest congress members
2. Tulsi has to me become one of the more level headed and honest political figures
3. Glenn Greenwald (one of the blacklist members) is on my very short list of trusted journalists

Adding to that, that they are Russian propagandists.

Simple logic says that russian propaganda is the truth.

See links if your after the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The actions to date are like chapters out of Joseph Goebbels playbook.

Nürnberg Rallies: The Stage for Hitler’s Propaganda

Hitler chose Nürnberg as the staging ground for his pronouncements and huge rallies. A master of mass-media propaganda, Hitler used films, newspapers, and the radio to whip up public support. Today his huge Congress Hall stands unfinished.

classroom.ricksteves.com

Julien Bryan

US filmmaker and photographer Julien Bryan was one of the few western photographers left in Warsaw upon the German invasion of Poland in September 1939.

www.ushmm.org

 

[Griswalduk]

Greenwald is the rare honest flaming liberal, and I have a lot of respect for him despite his horrid political leanings. Tulsi is acting like she's seen the light about how dishonest and destructive the liberals are but I'm still suspicious with her. It's telling how the democrats went full blast to destroy her for daring to not be 100% pure with their agenda. You're right that ukraine picked the wrong people to smear. They're going to lose some of whatever credibility they have left.

Just had a look at the article you linked to. Those mentioned wouldn't be household names in the UK but to be fair they sound like apologisers and enablers to me. Reminds me of the story of Lord Haw Haw. He also had an audience for a while. Link provided

Also I've yet to meet anyone who would admit to reading the Guardian Newspaper either

Lord Haw-Haw - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[bigredfish]

Hardly

 

[Griswalduk]

Video featuring Douglas Macgregor who has made it on to the aforementioned propaganda list. Not hard to see why mind you. Fortunately this video hasn't aged too well. He should try reading tea leaves

 

[bigredfish]

This is why I’m not following the conflict day to day. I have no idea who’s winning or losing this week. I do know that the 3 we mentioned are held in high regard as being opposite the typical MSM point of view and generally credible.

All I think I know is;
-There is a tremendous amount of propaganda going on from both sides

• The West wants this to continue and western arms makers are smiling ear to ear
• Putin is ultimately responsible for firing the first shots
• I don’t think it’s going as well for either side as they’d have us believe.
• I don’t believe Ukraine is/was exactly a model global citizen to begin with
• The US is spending way too much of my tax $ on the effort
• Biden has no idea what day it is and certainly isn’t calling the shots.

 

[tigerwillow1]

Those mentioned wouldn't be household names in the UK but to be fair they sound like apologisers and enablers to me.

Even though I disagree with you I can understand your conclusion for at least Glenn Greenwald if you weren't already familiar with him. I looked for some of his info in search engines and was shocked to see that he's widely portrayed as a russian supporter, for instance The Long History of Glenn Greenwald’s Kissing Up to the Kremlin . Greenwald, Tulsi Gabbard, and Rand Paul have one thing in common, wanting the USA to stop stirring up and/or getting involved in perpetual wars. I think Rand Paul's view is fairly well known. Here's one snippet from Greenwald:

"But how does any of this benefit the vast majority of Americans? Does that even matter? As of 2020, almost 30 million Americans are without any health insurance.....the ongoing infant formula shortage..... So many Americans are unable to afford college for their children.....monthly poverty remained elevated in February 2022, with a 14.4 percent poverty rate for the total US population….approximately 42.5 million Americans [are] living below the poverty line.”...Americans with diabetes often struggle to buy life-saving insulin."
Snips from Biden Wanted $33B More For Ukraine. Congress Quickly Raised it to $40B. Who Benefits?

And about Tulsi's view:
Gabbard says she will end “wasteful regime change wars” that she says have cost the United States trillions of dollars that should have instead been directed toward health care, infrastructure, and other domestic priorities.
From Tulsi Gabbard's Foreign Policy Positions

I do not agree with how Greenwald and Gabbard want to spend tax money in flaming liberal fashion. But what do they and conservative Rand Paul have in common? They question the USA getting involved in the Ukraine war, and for this they are branded as russian propagandists.

 

[mat200]

This is why I’m not following the conflict day to day. I have no idea who’s winning or losing this week. I do know that the 3 we mentioned are held in high regard as being opposite the typical MSM point of view and generally credible.

All I think I know is;
-There is a tremendous amount of propaganda going on from both sides

• The West wants this to continue and western arms makers are smiling ear to ear
• Putin is ultimately responsible for firing the first shots
• I don’t think it’s going as well for either side as they’d have us believe.
• I don’t believe Ukraine is/was exactly a model global citizen to begin with
• The US is spending way too much of my tax $ on the effort
• Biden has no idea what day it is and certainly isn’t calling the shots.

Everyone is losing on this war .. ( well most everyone that I can see )

Unfortunately, for Europe and those Hungry for food .. in the longer term, Russia can not "win" otherwise just a question of time before it eats the next country.

If Russia keeps control of the territory it has taken, it will just be in a stronger position the next time .. in control of more food, more commodities, more energy .. and the next battle will get harder once Russia has a chance to reload and re-arm.

We are in a similar situation to Nazi Germany and Czechoslovakia in WWII.

This really is bad for all of us that the USA and EU did not threaten Putin with destruction if he started this mess ... I still believe Trump would have told Putin about the Red Button next to his desk ...


"Did I shot 5 or 6 shots?"

but then again .. Russian Roulette has that name since Russian seems to like games like that ...

 

[bigredfish]

Don’t disagree, I guess it’s better to fight them in Ukraine than Poland. No good answers I suppose.

 

[Griswalduk]

Looking to history to find answers i offer as an example Neville Chamberlain. He was GB Prime Minister leading up to and at the start of WW2. His policy was one of appeasement and apology for an aggressive Nazi Germany. Again all the same reasons were given about money, corruption, taxes, who pays, bogey men and if war breaks out men wouldn't have time to get their afternoon delight

Besides the obvious, history has shown this all leads............to a baby boom

Great debate.

 

[mat200]

Helicopter pilots flying low ...

 

[Griswalduk]

BBC reporting Ukrainian troops knocking on the door of Kherson. Russian army cut off and vulnerable. See link for updates throughout the day.

7:56 Russian army near Kherson ‘highly vulnerable’, says UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-62330230

 

[Griswalduk]

Update on the Wagner group.

14:57 Russian media breaks silence on shadowy Wagner Group

"The site has been liberated by specialists from the Wagner private military company - the musicians, the orchestra," Poddubny said, listing words used mainly on social media to denote Wagner.

First time I've heard neo-nazis being referred to in a sanitised fashion. I don't know about making music but they're certainly dancing to Putin's genocidal tune.

I wonder can they play the skin flute or the pink piccolo

Wagner Group - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-62330230?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=62e2894321e03625cb4a22e9%26Russian%20media%20breaks%20silence%20on%20shadowy%20Wagner%20Group%262022-07-28T13%3A57%3A52.094Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:af03783a-35b3-4351-aa01-812d21c80e4d&pinned_post_asset_id=62e2894321e03625cb4a22e9&pinned_post_type=share

 

[mat200]

Good Summary .. imho there is more, it's about economic control of resources Oil, Natural Gas, Food ..

 

[N-i-k-s-o-n]

View attachment VID_20220729_122557_285.mp4