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bigredfish

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Russia & Pentagon Racing To Retrieve US Drone Wreckage In Black Sea

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

…..
Both sides are leveling accusations of trying to draw the other into direct conflict, in what marks a dangerous escalation in rhetoric based on the very real drone encounter and close-call, given the pair of Russian jets had stopped just short of shooting down the MQ-9, which Washington would have seen as a direct act of war:
Patrushev said the incident was further proof that the United States is a direct party to fighting between Moscow and Kyiv and said Russia had a responsibility to "defend our independence and our sovereignty."
Russia's Defense Ministry said it had scrambled jets after detecting a U.S. drone over the Black Sea and denied causing the crash.
Click to expand...
Even as the Kremlin says it's deploying assets to recover the drone, the Pentagon vows that it's working to prevent that:
Russia said the aircraft had lost control but White House national security spokesman John Kirby said the U.S. "obviously" refuted the denial.
He added the United States was trying to prevent the fallen drone from getting into the wrong hands. "We've taken steps to protect our equities with respect to that particular drone — that particular aircraft," Kirby told CNN.
Click to expand...
…. So now we're witnessing rival superpowers deploying assets in the Black Sea not far from the fighting in Ukraine in a race to recover the advanced Reaper drone
 
Griswalduk

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sdkid said:
The US has spent well north of 100 BILLION DOLLARS on that shitstain Ukraine. Meanwhile the EU has spent about 10 billion. Tell me why that isn't 55 Billion each. For that matter--- why in the F isn't the EU spending 100+ Billion and the US only 10 Billion? That makes a hell of a lot more sense to me--- it's your goddamned back yard. I DON"T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR DAMNED WAR. You pay for it.
Click to expand...
I have yet to hear of an American domestic problem that cannot be solved by appropriate funding. The real question is how to find this funding. Below is an example using the military spending figures given at the time an if anyone would like to offer different figures or get into how much tax avoidance in this area alone could be costing the American people I'll add or rework them. Please be aware has the potential to help make America great again but the process does not involve turning up for sound bites with hats and bottled water.

I replied in some detail why investing in Ukraine is a sound financially decision that can produce a healthy return to offset the national debt or be spent on worthy causes. It is the responsibility of government to make sure this happens but as can be seen from the graph the debt ceiling has been growing nearly as long as Zelenskyy has been walking this planet. Republican and Democrat governments have had their chance to sit down but they have refused to so for decades. This is the real problem. The swamp needs drained.

If it's any consolation we have exactly the same problems here in the UK.

1678888229637.png

In my view America is a big business not a charity. The people as shareholders should expect that any money invested by the government will result in a profitable return. The extreme opposite of this outcome is obviously bankruptcy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.

Buying costs + other costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.

The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.

This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.

Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.

Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.

In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself.
 
Griswalduk

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bigredfish said:
Russia & Pentagon Racing To Retrieve US Drone Wreckage In Black Sea

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

…..
Both sides are leveling accusations of trying to draw the other into direct conflict, in what marks a dangerous escalation in rhetoric based on the very real drone encounter and close-call, given the pair of Russian jets had stopped just short of shooting down the MQ-9, which Washington would have seen as a direct act of war:

Even as the Kremlin says it's deploying assets to recover the drone, the Pentagon vows that it's working to prevent that:

…. So now we're witnessing rival superpowers deploying assets in the Black Sea not far from the fighting in Ukraine in a race to recover the advanced Reaper drone
Click to expand...
CGI anyone?

 
sdkid

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Griswalduk said:
I have yet to hear of an American domestic problem that cannot be solved by appropriate funding. The real question is how to find this funding. Below is an example using the military spending figures given at the time an if anyone would like to offer different figures or get into how much tax avoidance in this area alone could be costing the American people I'll add or rework them. Please be aware has the potential to help make America great again but the process does not involve turning up for sound bites with hats and bottled water.

I replied in some detail why investing in Ukraine is a sound financially decision that can produce a healthy return to offset the national debt or be spent on worthy causes. It is the responsibility of government to make sure this happens but as can be seen from the graph the debt ceiling has been growing nearly as long as Zelenskyy has been walking this planet. Republican and Democrat governments have had their chance to sit down but they have refused to so for decades. This is the real problem. The swamp needs drained.

If it's any consolation we have exactly the same problems here in the UK.

View attachment 156945

In my view America is a big business not a charity. The people as shareholders should expect that any money invested by the government will result in a profitable return. The extreme opposite of this outcome is obviously bankruptcy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.

Buying costs + other costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.

The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.

This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.

Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.

Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.

In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself.
Click to expand...
"...the real question is how to find this funding..." No. That is the mindset of tax & spend Democrats who believe the Government is our Salvation. Reality is the government is our Damnation.

You state that "investing" in Ukraine is a sound financial decision. Cool. Let the EU "invest" in it. They can reap all the profits. So--- why WON'T the EU do this? Because like you, they already know-- I don't think you actually believe it's a good investment-- you just want Uncle Sam to spend all that money so you don't have to. Nope. As I said before-- the EU can buy the weapons from us and give it to Ukraine if they want, you know, because it's such a "good investment". Hell-- it's such a good investment that you don't even need the US at all.

I loved the chart showing national debt. You didn't seem to grasp what it is saying though. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO FIGHT EUROPE'S WAR. I live in South Dakota. We became a state admitted to the Union in 1889, and we have had a BALANCED BUDGET every year since then. For 134 years, we have lived within our means and paid our bills. Not so at all nationally. You ae being disingenuous in saying that both parties are irresponsible and we need to "drain the swamp", while also espousing the kind of financial thinking that equates to the reason the swamp needs to be drained in the first place. Our own country needs the money spent in Ukraine. Our own infrastructure is suffering, and blowing that money on the Ukraine is NOT promoting the general welfare of the United States. Charity is wonderful, but it comes at the expense of other things. MAGA as a philosophy is that we need to take care of our own and PRIORITIZE that in policy and finance. So NO, most of us STILL do not want to send money to Ukraine at the expense of things and programs needed at home.
 
bigredfish

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Griswalduk said:
I have yet to hear of an American domestic problem that cannot be solved by appropriate funding. The real question is how to find this funding. Below is an example using the military spending figures given at the time an if anyone would like to offer different figures or get into how much tax avoidance in this area alone could be costing the American people I'll add or rework them. Please be aware has the potential to help make America great again but the process does not involve turning up for sound bites with hats and bottled water.

I replied in some detail why investing in Ukraine is a sound financially decision that can produce a healthy return to offset the national debt or be spent on worthy causes. It is the responsibility of government to make sure this happens but as can be seen from the graph the debt ceiling has been growing nearly as long as Zelenskyy has been walking this planet. Republican and Democrat governments have had their chance to sit down but they have refused to so for decades. This is the real problem. The swamp needs drained.

If it's any consolation we have exactly the same problems here in the UK.

View attachment 156945

In my view America is a big business not a charity. The people as shareholders should expect that any money invested by the government will result in a profitable return. The extreme opposite of this outcome is obviously bankruptcy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the sums I've seen are $1.7 trillion overall with $45 billion off this ear marked for Ukraine. My thoughts rightly or wrongly If i was running a business "not charity" and providing goods ( not necessary military equipment ) to this value are.

Buying costs + other costs + my profit = $45 billion selling price to customer. Rearranging this equation shows the cost to the tax payer is less than selling price but in this case there's more political mileage and publicity with the higher figure. My real cost guesstimate $35 billion.

The goods in question also need to be manufactured / assembled and the cost of such includes labour. Using the existing workforce or newly created employment my guesstimate of labour costs to take raw materials from the ground and make them into a big gun or a high tech missile is going to be $20 billion. i appreciate it could be higher or lower. Assuming this process happens in America and a tax rate of 20% the resultant is $4 billion in tax going back into the economy. There may be other deductions from this sum for example in the UK we pay national insurance at about 12% that flows back to the government funded public health service. The net income after these deductions is the employees take home pay for mortgages, car insurance, food and groceries, treats for the kids gifts for him and her. Again the ripple effect is the bulk of this $20 billion should stay in the USA economy.

This increase in manufacturing should also create employment in supporting areas and supply chains. For example the workers need fed, cars, vans, lorries roads need maintained, children need cared for while mum / dads at work. I'm sure there's maths to work all this out but I'm going to guess this generates another sizeable income. Guesstimate $5 billion which will be taxed and spent the same as above. With these deductions this very unscientific calculation has shown that $45 billion could really be $10 billion real world. Still a significant amount but less so.

Looking further ahead Ukraine will need rebuilt. With American being the largest contributor its returns should rightly be reflective of this . With preferential treatment there are many more billions to be made here in construction and the supply of materials, technology, labour and whatever else is needed to get the country going again. And don't forget that headline $45 billion still needs repaying.

Now we come to reparations for a needless war of genocide at the behest of a Nazi dictator. As well as footing the bill for the above rebuild, Russian should also be told you owe us $45 billion (and counting). Pay willingly and the sanctions can be eased gradually or refuse to pay and your oil and gas exports will be taxed.

In a nutshell if your running a powerful business like America the headline $45 billion investment can be flipped many many many times resulting in a huge return. It is infact a sound financial decision that could be used to ease the national debt or for the worthy causes mentioned. If your running a business and this doesn't happen the the problem is not with the customer its with the business itself.
Click to expand...
The problem with your investment return theory is that all of the money goes back into the MIC and select personal pockets. The US citizens will never see a penny.
 
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gwminor48

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This is a Babylon Bee but it's so close to the truth satire could become reality.

babylonbee.com

Colin Kaepernick Sues Adoptive Parents For $21 Million In Reparations

NEW YORK, NY — Beloved Football superstar Colin Kaepernick has announced he will be suing his white parents for the cruel act of adopting him into a white family without his consent. Kaepernick's legal team announced he is seeking $21 million in reparations from the couple.
babylonbee.com babylonbee.com
 
Griswalduk

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sdkid said:
"...the real question is how to find this funding..." No. That is the mindset of tax & spend Democrats who believe the Government is our Salvation. Reality is the government is our Damnation.

You state that "investing" in Ukraine is a sound financial decision. Cool. Let the EU "invest" in it. They can reap all the profits. So--- why WON'T the EU do this? Because like you, they already know-- I don't think you actually believe it's a good investment-- you just want Uncle Sam to spend all that money so you don't have to. Nope. As I said before-- the EU can buy the weapons from us and give it to Ukraine if they want, you know, because it's such a "good investment". Hell-- it's such a good investment that you don't even need the US at all.

I loved the chart showing national debt. You didn't seem to grasp what it is saying though. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO FIGHT EUROPE'S WAR. I live in South Dakota. We became a state admitted to the Union in 1889, and we have had a BALANCED BUDGET every year since then. For 134 years, we have lived within our means and paid our bills. Not so at all nationally. You ae being disingenuous in saying that both parties are irresponsible and we need to "drain the swamp", while also espousing the kind of financial thinking that equates to the reason the swamp needs to be drained in the first place. Our own country needs the money spent in Ukraine. Our own infrastructure is suffering, and blowing that money on the Ukraine is NOT promoting the general welfare of the United States. Charity is wonderful, but it comes at the expense of other things. MAGA as a philosophy is that we need to take care of our own and PRIORITIZE that in policy and finance. So NO, most of us STILL do not want to send money to Ukraine at the expense of things and programs needed at home.
Click to expand...
My opinions flow from 1 assumption and that is the majority of America wants it to remain No.1
If not the alternatives are to be the world's No 2 or 3 or less and accept a place in accordance with this at the world table. Maybe America would be happy / happier with less influence, less resources, less stress but ultimately less money GDP. Taking the UK as an example who for a time was arguably once at the head of the table now sits number 5 / 6 with the influence and resources of that position. Most likely China would gladly assume America's seat.

My interpretation of the chart is somewhat different. It shows that irrespective of the political party governing at the time US national debt always increases. It shows US national debt will again increase irrespective of who is elected. It ultimately shows the way to bankruptcy irrespective of who is elected.. It shows radical change is needed before its too late. The radical change i propose is America starts making money.

Trading is one way of making money. Trading in military hardware is something America makes and does well and I'm sure the people employed directly and indirectly are feeling the benefits of increased production Also linked below is an article on the worlds top 10 companies making serious cash. 9/10 of these are US based. The reason i bring up tax.is the fact your potholes for example are not getting filled and GDP is $24 trillion is the net result of what's called " a double Irish with a dutch sandwich ".

If you view the UK situation from your US eyes it will be like looking in the mirror. Everything I've said applies equally here and we are going similar places facing similar choices with the political left and right unable or unwilling to change. This swamp also need drained, needs to make money and get a reasonable amount of tax from the avoiders. To answer the question. Yes I would invest more in Ukraine and In doing so would expect a bigger return.

Also of interest is a Joe Blogs report i previously posted about political party donations

www.businessinsider.in

Top 10 companies in the world by market cap

Market Cap (or market capitalization) refers to the worth of a company computed from the total value of all its shares.BI gives an overview of the world’s top 10 enterprises in terms of their 2023 market cap.Market Cap is an important metric in ascertaining the comparative value of firms with...
www.businessinsider.in www.businessinsider.in

www.freshbooks.com

Double Irish Dutch Sandwich Tax Avoidance: Definition & Explanation

Looking for Double Irish Dutch Sandwich tax avoidance technique? Read this in-depth explanation and find out how companies like Google and Apple minimize their taxes.
www.freshbooks.com www.freshbooks.com

en.m.wikipedia.org

Double Irish arrangement - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

 
Last edited:
Griswalduk

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bigredfish said:
The problem with your investment return theory is that all of the money goes back into the MIC and select personal pockets. The US citizens will never see a penny.
Click to expand...
Excuse my ignorance but what's MIC lol ?
 
bigredfish

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Griswalduk said:
Excuse my ignorance but what's MIC lol ?
Click to expand...
Military Industrial Complex - the cartel that runs our little business...

And from Wikipedia :
In the context of the United States, the appellation is sometimes extended to military–industrial–congressional complex (MICC), adding the U.S. Congress to form a three-sided relationship termed an "iron triangle".[10] Its three legs include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry; or more broadly, the entire network of contracts and flows of money and resources among individuals as well as corporations and institutions of the defense contractors, private military contractors, the Pentagon, Congress, and the executive branch.[11]
 
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