When new Dahua cameras only support IE in 2023, should we look elsewhere?

[carteriii]

When Dahua introduces new camera models that only support Internet Explorer with a 32-bit ActiveX plug-in, at what point should we show them the same lack of respect & support they give us by going with another camera manufacturer with comparable camera models?

I just received a new Dahua thermal camera through Andy. Let me preface the rest of this discussion by saying that Andy is awesome and I want to support him as much as I can. Unfortunately Andy is also a victim of Dahua, along with the rest of us.

My nice new Dahua thermal camera, manufactured in June of 2023, with firmware dated May of 2023, only supports Internet Explorer (IE), and only with a 32-bit ActiveX plugin.

As everyone should know, even Microsoft doesn't support Internet Explorer. Even if you try to open a website with an old copy of IE, IE will redirect you to Edge and give you all sorts of warnings. Edge has an option to run in IE mode, but even this makes you jump through hoops. Then there are more hoops to get an ActiveX web plugin to install, and then you have to explicitly "whitelist" (my term) the URL(s) that you want to run like this and are told it will only run for 30 days. I just made it through that process, but I'm not comfortable that even Microsoft will allow us to jump through such hoops for as long as I hope any camera will live.

I run Blue Iris, so some of you may be thinking, "Just use Blue Iris", but Blue Iris doesn't manage configuration values on the camera itself. For this, some might suggest, "Oh, just use Blue Iris as your viewer while you make config changes through the Chrome browser". While that will work for some settings, it won't work for anything more sophisticated like drawing tripwires, intrusion boxes, etc. For that, you need to directly interact with an image. The thermal camera has even more settings that most of us have never seen before, and IMHO it's somewhere between pathetic and negligent that Dahua only supports IE with an ActiveX plugin for their latest & greatest thermal camera features.

I can't help but ask myself, why isn't there newer support? Well, Dahua is clearly focused on commercial/business use, not individual home owners like many of us here on IPCamTalk. Dahua also clearly wants people to use their NVRs rather than Blue Iris. Going one step further, I live in the US and Dahua probably doesn't really care about the US market because of all the hostility between our countries due to concern over the security of Chinese manufactured cameras, cell/5G tech, etc. The net is the sad realization that Dahua probably doesn't care even the smallest amount about me, or most of you reading this.

HOWEVER, I looked at Hikvision's website for their thermal cameras and they explicitly call out "Live view (plug-in free): Chrome 57+". That is so refreshing! I just bought this camera from Andy and I don't want to put him in a bad situation, but it feels like I should return this and instead by the comparable Hikvision model. I've been incredibly loyal to Dahua, largely because of Andy and his access to firmware, but have any of the rest of you gone with Hikvision for some of your cameras? Were you glad you did? I have invested a ton in Dahua cameras, but I really don't like to support a company that shows so little respect for a user like me/us, even if we are just a niche group of non-commercial power users.

 

[CanCuba]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. I just finished setting up a BoobieCam using Brave on Linux. Set the laptop up in front of the TV and dialed in the settings that way. Wife has a Windows laptop supplied by her employer and I don't want to install IE on it and I especially don't want to install a plug-in on it.

Fortunately, I'm using this cam strictly for face detection so I didn't have to draw any tripwires, etc. But I am having trouble (ie. I'm unable to) download videos in either .dav or .mp3 directly from the cam. .jpgs are fine fortunately.

As it's been repeated here by @wittaj (this isn't a criticism) that we're not the target market. But at some point, the professional installers are going to want to upgrade their own systems and IE with plugins will not be an attractive idea to them either.

You are correct in saying it's a poor business practice which is surprising for a large manufacturer such as Dahua. It's reminiscent of banks continuing to use old COBOL systems to run their banking systems (at least they did in Canada) which led to a huge panic when Y2K was bearing down on them.

Total respect to Dahua and Andy. Great companies and great hardware but people are losing their patience with IE dependant camera GUIs.

 

[bigredfish]

I dont have a thermal or Boobie cam, are they running V3 or V4 FW?

Im able to use Edge with IE mode on most of my cams going back to V3 FW and including V4 and V5. I also use Pale Moon 32 successfully on most

Chrome I just tried as I dont use it much, and Im able to make everything work in the NVR V4, Cams V4 and V5 FW.... I havent done anything special to Chrome, I just use if for work email...

 

[CanCuba]

Here's my BoobieCam version info:

System Version V2.840.0000000.18.R, Build Date: 2022-06-29
WEB Version V3.2.1.1261216

The BoobieCam needs a plugin to be able to view the live stream. Assuming this is due to it having two channels. Not sure what the reason for this is but I can still view the live streams from the same cam if I log into my NVR. It seems "amateurish" for lack of a better word.

Other than that, I can manage the rest of my system with Chrome, Firefox and Brave without issue. The only thing I'm missing from the NVR web GUI is the ability to cut videos and export them to my machine. But since I have the NVR HDMI output hooked up to a TV, I'm able to do that without issue and seems much faster than the web GUI.

 

[actran]

I started out with Hikvision cameras and was not happy with night time performance. Switched completely to Dahua and not going back.

I've had good success getting to camera web UI via Pale Moon 32-bit browser on Windows 10: The Pale Moon Project homepage

 

[bigredfish]

Here's my BoobieCam version info:

System Version V2.840.0000000.18.R, Build Date: 2022-06-29
WEB Version V3.2.1.1261216

The BoobieCam needs a plugin to be able to view the live stream. Assuming this is due to it having two channels. Not sure what the reason for this is but I can still view the live streams from the same cam if I log into my NVR. It seems "amateurish" for lack of a better word.

Other than that, I can manage the rest of my system with Chrome, Firefox and Brave without issue. The only thing I'm missing from the NVR web GUI is the ability to cut videos and export them to my machine. But since I have the NVR HDMI output hooked up to a TV, I'm able to do that without issue and seems much faster than the web GUI.

Yeah I forgot about the cut tool missing in Pale Moon. Good catch.

I use SmartPSS for all live viewing, playback, exporting so rarely use the NVR playback. Much better interface.

 

[wittaj]

First off you don't have to install Explorer as it is already on the computer (Microsoft simply hides it)....there are simple ways to get it again.

Second, while it is weird to us that they use a no longer supported browser, there is a reason...

Many manufacturers have focused the firmware around Internet Explorer (which was the standard once upon a time), even brand new cameras unfortunately. Keep in mind we are not the intended audience of Hikvision and Dahua, it is professional installers with specialized equipment and/or don't update their equipment (many still use laptops with Windows 7), so they are not going to invest in changing the firmware until they see a need. As such, those end users usually don't get into the userface like we do.

So until their professional installers and their intended market demand or require it, we won't see it and us complaining they don't care is irrelevant because we are not their intended market. They are not going to reinvent the wheel and throw out all firmware and start new until there is a need from their intended market. They use their existing firmware as the base and build on it. Some cameras work better than others with different browsers, but IE is the sure browser to work with these cameras.

We are just fortunate to be able to get our hands on these cameras and NVRs.

I am going to use what I feel is the best bang for the buck and as long as I can still access Explorer, it makes that decision easy.

 

[fenderman]

I started out with Hikvision cameras and was not happy with night time performance. Switched completely to Dahua and not going back.

I've had good success getting to camera web UI via Pale Moon 32-bit browser on Windows 10: The Pale Moon Project homepage

Thats because the particular hiks you purchased didnt have the proper sensors...Dahua also has and had cameras that perform poorly at night.

 

[bigredfish]

Here's my BoobieCam version info:

System Version V2.840.0000000.18.R, Build Date: 2022-06-29
WEB Version V3.2.1.1261216

The BoobieCam needs a plugin to be able to view the live stream. Assuming this is due to it having two channels. Not sure what the reason for this is but I can still view the live streams from the same cam if I log into my NVR. It seems "amateurish" for lack of a better word.

Other than that, I can manage the rest of my system with Chrome, Firefox and Brave without issue. The only thing I'm missing from the NVR web GUI is the ability to cut videos and export them to my machine. But since I have the NVR HDMI output hooked up to a TV, I'm able to do that without issue and seems much faster than the web GUI.

Just went back, same issue in Chrome on the NVR playback.; No cutting/download tool. Everything else seems to work fine

 

[Tinman]

I only have a few Dahua cams that still require IE and plugin. In Edge I use the IE Tab extension and it works pretty well, but you still need plugin.

 

[carteriii]

I've had good success getting to camera web UI via Pale Moon 32-bit browser on Windows 10

Does Pale Moon support ActiveX plugins? That's what I believe is the root requirement by Dahua, which in turn requires Internet Explorer. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

as long as I can still access Explorer, it makes that decision easy.

Thank you. I think that's the advice I was looking for, or at least needed to hear. I did get it working, but I fear even basic IE support will go away since Microsoft seems to be getting more aggressive about sunsetting a lot of other things. It's an expensive camera to just "suck it up" and deal with, but I do agree wholeheartedly with @wittaj that I am very grateful to have access to these cameras with the larger sensors, manual control of exposures for LRP, ONVIF event support with BlueIris, etc. etc. Andy is also incredible, especially with his support getting us firmware updates, etc. Overall, we are very fortunate. I need to keep that in perspective as I get frustrated about a new "high-end" camera which requires 1990's browser technology.

For what it's worth, the thermal camera provides two streams very much like the dual stream (aka "boobie") camera. One is the standard camera image, and the second stream is the thermal image.

 

[Tinman]

Why Andy and Dahua always recommend you do firmware updates using the latest config tool and NOT IE or any browser as it may crash.

 

[duplo]

What is and was a bit annoying about the activeX plugin.. if you have different models / firmware versions then you need to install the plugin everytime again, because they are not compatible to each other.

I am using SmartPSS for configuration, never had any problem.

DahuaWiki

dahuawiki.com

 

[CanCuba]

First off you don't have to install Explorer as it is already on the computer (Microsoft simply hides it)....there are simple ways to get it again.

Second, while it is weird to us that they use a no longer supported browser, there is a reason...

Many manufacturers have focused the firmware around Internet Explorer (which was the standard once upon a time), even brand new cameras unfortunately. Keep in mind we are not the intended audience of Hikvision and Dahua, it is professional installers with specialized equipment and/or don't update their equipment (many still use laptops with Windows 7), so they are not going to invest in changing the firmware until they see a need. As such, those end users usually don't get into the userface like we do.

So until their professional installers and their intended market demand or require it, we won't see it and us complaining they don't care is irrelevant because we are not their intended market. They are not going to reinvent the wheel and throw out all firmware and start new until there is a need from their intended market. They use their existing firmware as the base and build on it. Some cameras work better than others with different browsers, but IE is the sure browser to work with these cameras.

We are just fortunate to be able to get our hands on these cameras and NVRs.

I am going to use what I feel is the best bang for the buck and as long as I can still access Explorer, it makes that decision easy.

Our issue is installing a plug-in on my wife's computer. Haven't tried and the company has the laptop locked down that it probably wouldn't be possible.

Still, I've managed to work around everything using Firefox or Brave so far.

 

[CCTVCam]

Dahua ought to adopt Firefox. Whilst not quite as trendy as chrome, it's readily available, easy to install alongside chrome and has the advantage that it's not being developed as much on the face of it so there are less updates to worry about / that Dahua have to adapt for.

I see Firefox as a very safe bet.

I agree IE needs to be ditched. Even with the IE hack, MS hassles you every time with a banner at the bottom telling you to switch to Edge. It's simply not worth it anymore and even with IE, some cameras continue to have saving issues. Best way forward is to re-write for something that's stable and been around a long time and going to be around a long time, and so far as I can tell Firefox fits the bill perfectly.

 

[wittaj]

I posted this way back when and it stopped all my MS hassles LOL

PSA - Microsoft Edge Updates and Explorer

So good ole Microsoft has snuck something in Windows that we need to be aware of (at least those that need to use Explorer for accessing camera GUI). They have now made it so you cannot uninstall Edge, but then they also snuck in some Task Schedulers that run constantly. Some on my computer...

ipcamtalk.com

Go into Task Scheduler and delete/disable any items Windows has added that will switch to Edge and remove Explorer.

They have now made it so you cannot uninstall Edge, but then they also snuck in some Task Schedulers that run constantly. Some on my computer are running every hour and some are once a day.

They are looking for Edge updates every 12 hours and I bet one day will just wipe Explorer off your computer.

I was wondering why Edge kept updating and kept opening up along when I would open Explorer.

So for those of us that lock down and disable Windows Updates, be sure to check your Task Scheduler for any updates they have hidden here.

Here where the ones that showed up in mine one day.

 

[CCTVCam]

Done thanks.