I am preparing to mount my first outdoor turret Dahua camera. Before reading this forum I wasn't going to use an SD card in the camera because I couldn't see why. And it's a major PITA to insert and retrieve it. I am going to use Blue Iris and/or builtin camera features, no NVR. I noticed several people mentioned SD cards in their cameras. Can anyone point to advantages of having an SD card in the camera? Do any camera IVS features require it? It doesn't seem so. BI needs just a stream. Camera can write to a NAS or FTP if needed. I found that "Cliff Notes" mention an Automatic Network Recovery (ANR) that requires an SD card but it's for NVR. Will I miss anything if I don't put an SD card in the camera before I mount it?
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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SD cards are for backup... the camera can record to the card even if the network is down as long as it's getting power... The camera stores logs there and any error messages as well... SD cards are cheap enough to make it worth the while... There are special cards available cams...
SouthernYankee
IPCT Contributor
What happens when someone breaks in and steals your BI machine.
There is no need to reterive the sd card, you can access it from connecting to the camera.
I have three copies of all video, the SD card, BI, a NAS copy of BI.
There is no need to reterive the sd card, you can access it from connecting to the camera.
I have three copies of all video, the SD card, BI, a NAS copy of BI.
I never thought about it but I found that logs must be saved to NVRAM because there is no SD card in my cam but the log survives reboots and long times without power. My camera is still on my desk and I unplug it from the POE switch when I am done playing with it, so it's more off than on, yet the log events are there from the last time I changed the firmware (a day ago). And in my case the cameras will be powered from the same UPS that powers the core network in the house including the POE switch, so for me network down = power down.
If SD cards are mostly used for backup recording I think "Cliff Notes" should really recommend high endurance micro SD cards, not regular Samsung cards they recommend now. Examples are https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Endurance-32GB-Micro-Adapter/dp/B07B98GXQT and https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Endurance-Monitoring-Adapter-SDSDQQ-064G-G46A/dp/B00V5Q1N1I These types of cards are recommended for dash cams as well. I don't know who is in charge of "Cliff Notes" as I am new here. I hope somebody can pass on the message.
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fenderman
Staff member
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Log storage may vary depending on the camera..there are cams tgat cannot store logs without cards.
We have been using SD cards well before the high endurance cards came to market... you'll be ok either way... network failure or NVR failure can occur regardless of whether power is available...
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My plan was for BI to record motion events only, then let BI copy videos to the NAS and let the NAS upload them to my cloud in real time. Supposedly it's real time (as real as it can be with copying files), I don't know how it will work yet. BI doesn't recommend saving new videos to NAS. I am going to try it with iSCSI anyway and see if I can skip the local storage.
Guess im not doing something right. When i use ivms4500 from remote device and vpn into home, i cannot see recordings without sd card as one does not have a place for one. Its like ivms4500 only see cameras not my ivms4200 nvr on computer.
And yes i always use sd u3 cards when i can for reasons above as well. So far no issues few years. On motion i save about 4-10 days depending on 32 or 64gb, and action.
My 1tb storage server computer runnng win 10 saves about a month on 6 4mp cams and ssd for os.
And yes i always use sd u3 cards when i can for reasons above as well. So far no issues few years. On motion i save about 4-10 days depending on 32 or 64gb, and action.
My 1tb storage server computer runnng win 10 saves about a month on 6 4mp cams and ssd for os.
This thread also reminded me to upgrade my memory..128gb u3..pretty cheap
Samsung EVO Select U3 microSD Cards: 64GB $16 or 128GB $29
Samsung EVO Select U3 microSD Cards: 64GB $16 or 128GB $29
giomania
IPCT Contributor
- Jun 1, 2017
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I was not aware they had high-endurance cards, so maybe they are new? We recommended Samsung based upon the experience and trust we placed in @nayr and @fenderman, if memory serves. We can add something about high-endurance cards, but this raises some questions in my mind.
Do you think they make some special flash memory for those high-endurance cards? I would say probably not, and it is marketing, but perhaps they have manufacturing tolerances that are higher.
I really don’t know, but have heard of folks purchasing non-Samsung flash and having it fail prematurely.
Maybe others will add their experience, and we can come up with a consensus about updating the Cliff Notes guidance.
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Some of the high endurance cards are using MLC memory which has a higher write life cycle than typical TLC memory which is used in the majority of consumer cards these days.
The really high end stuff was SLC but that's rare these days and only in smaller sizes but for more industrial uses.
As you say the marketing people got hold of things and realised they could charge more for MLC, but then if you look closely a lot of the older cards used to come with lifetime warranties, and then always check the small print as a lot of them were reduced to 5 years and a certain number of write cycles.
Transcend are usually pretty open about what technology they use, whereas other manufacturers like to keep it a secret (ie most likely so they can use whatever is cheapest at that point in time!)
The really high end stuff was SLC but that's rare these days and only in smaller sizes but for more industrial uses.
As you say the marketing people got hold of things and realised they could charge more for MLC, but then if you look closely a lot of the older cards used to come with lifetime warranties, and then always check the small print as a lot of them were reduced to 5 years and a certain number of write cycles.
Transcend are usually pretty open about what technology they use, whereas other manufacturers like to keep it a secret (ie most likely so they can use whatever is cheapest at that point in time!)
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Based on LOTS of experience here, the Samsung EVO Select cards have proven to work just fine for the long term in cams.
More importantly, is to make certain the cards are purchased from reputable dealers. Fakes are everywhere.
No need to retrieve an SD card to view it's contents, view it over the network.
They are not hard to install in cams, 5 minute job.
More importantly, is to make certain the cards are purchased from reputable dealers. Fakes are everywhere.
No need to retrieve an SD card to view it's contents, view it over the network.
They are not hard to install in cams, 5 minute job.
@giomania, @reverend explained it well. All I can add that it looks like all SD card manufacturers are quietly shifting their technologies from MLC to TLC (cheaper) while keeping the price constant or slightly lower and introducing these more expensive high endurance cards that probably still use MLC. While first I heard of high endurance card was 2-3 years ago Samsung introduced them in May 2018: Samsung Electronics Redefines High Endurance Memory Card Market with New PRO Endurance Card
Also the manufacturers are stopping honoring the warranty if their cards were used in surveillance/dash cameras (and even Raspberry Pi's) unless it was a high endurance one. See some info about Samsung and SanDisk here (middle of page): SD Cards We Recommend for Dash Cameras
And about RPi here (second post from the bottom): High Endurance SD card - Raspberry Pi Forums
Also the manufacturers are stopping honoring the warranty if their cards were used in surveillance/dash cameras (and even Raspberry Pi's) unless it was a high endurance one. See some info about Samsung and SanDisk here (middle of page): SD Cards We Recommend for Dash Cameras
And about RPi here (second post from the bottom): High Endurance SD card - Raspberry Pi Forums
I agree with everything else but this statement may have the following problem. If the cards were purchased long ago they were probably MLC and will keep working and be reliable. If someone purchases those cards now they may be TLC and under the same conditions will fail before the older cards. It will take a year or two to collect the statistical experience. Samsung themselves now recommends the Endurance cards for "surveillance solutions". See link in the above post.
fenderman
Staff member
- Mar 9, 2014
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take a guess as to why they recommend their more expensive cards...im not saying you should not use the high endurance cards..i would...but it doesnt seem like you plan on using any cards so its really irrelevant.
Even if i didn't plan to use cards the information may be useful to others. But I changed my mind because of this thread. I ordered the cards. High endurance. If it was a couple of years ago I would have followed the recommendations in the "Cliff Notes" but things change.
Now 3D TLC (pioneered by Samsung several years ago) is taking over the regular TLC. It has more longevity than regular TLC. Hopefully it will replace the regular TLC in SD cards soon.
Now 3D TLC (pioneered by Samsung several years ago) is taking over the regular TLC. It has more longevity than regular TLC. Hopefully it will replace the regular TLC in SD cards soon.
@looney2ns I'm in the process of ordering a few MicroSD cards for my 5231s. Do you typically run cards in all of your cams...? Are the cameras always recording to these cards independent of BI settings, 24/7? In your experience, roughly how much video can be cached on these cards with 64gb vs 128, assuming default 1080p settings? I see that the MLC cards are suppose to deal better with this type of heavy usage compared to TLC technology but Samsung does not seem to specify what's used in their cards. I know you've had good luck with the EVO select cards but I just wanted to consider the endurance cards. I appreciate your feedback.
Robert
looney2ns
IPCT Contributor
Yes, recording the 480DI, vbr, substream 24/7, I get roughly 26 days on a 128gb.
You can setup the cam to email on the event of a card error.