Wireless ip cam
- Thread starter abbas
- Start date
nayr
IPCT Contributor
you cannot setup a wireless network capable of streaming from 20 cameras; there is not enough bandwidth for that.. and more often than not 1 single camera on WiFi will suck and basically trash the wireless for everything else.. hell most off the shelf consumer WiFi will not handle 20 clients connected, in my experience you need carrier/enterprise class WiFi to get more than a dozen connections on an AP and maintain any performance.
Run wires or use Power Line Ethernet, or else your wasting your time and money.
20 cameras are going to need at least ~200Mbit bandwidth for HD streams, wired networking is required and a very powerful NVR w/Gigabit ethernet is required to handle that amount of data.
Run wires or use Power Line Ethernet, or else your wasting your time and money.
20 cameras are going to need at least ~200Mbit bandwidth for HD streams, wired networking is required and a very powerful NVR w/Gigabit ethernet is required to handle that amount of data.
Last edited by a moderator:
Zxel
Getting the hang of it
Everyones comment here on wireless (as in it sucks) is correct, however, this can be done (not that I'm recomending it).
You would need multiple wireless routers to handle the cameras, since as stated one wireless connetion (think router) would run out of bandwidth. Since most wireless cameras do not support wireless N, you will be limited to the G spec. As to how many access points (wireless routers...) will be need this will depend on the quality of your wireless connections.
If you have perfect wireless connectivity you could use as few as 2, however, it is rare to have perfect connectivity all the time on wireless (which is why it sucks
).
Once again wired is best, however, there are times it is not possible.
You would need multiple wireless routers to handle the cameras, since as stated one wireless connetion (think router) would run out of bandwidth. Since most wireless cameras do not support wireless N, you will be limited to the G spec. As to how many access points (wireless routers...) will be need this will depend on the quality of your wireless connections.
If you have perfect wireless connectivity you could use as few as 2, however, it is rare to have perfect connectivity all the time on wireless (which is why it sucks
).Once again wired is best, however, there are times it is not possible.
nayr
IPCT Contributor
I disagree Zxel, if he is thrown down to G spec each AP is going ot be limited to 54Mbps.. he is going to need 4 of them completely saturated to support 20 cameras and there are only 3 channels in 2.4GHz so that means one access point will be interfering with another so at least half the cameras are going to have even less bandwidth to work with... Not to mention such a WiFi network is horridly complex and needs very fine tuning to even operate.. this wont be 4 access points at default settings thats for sure.
All the cameras stream massive data 24/7/365, this will instantly destroy the network... That many devices trying to push that much data in such a small frequency band is just going to create a noise floor higher than the connection strengths and everything is going to be in a constant, connect, send some data, disconnect loop
The number of cameras he is trying to use will never work on WiFi, if its not possible to run wires then I argue its not possible for this guy to run 20 cameras.. something has to give.. most people whom come to these forums have a total wireless failure with as little as 2-4 cameras operating on the same frequency.
All the cameras stream massive data 24/7/365, this will instantly destroy the network... That many devices trying to push that much data in such a small frequency band is just going to create a noise floor higher than the connection strengths and everything is going to be in a constant, connect, send some data, disconnect loop
The number of cameras he is trying to use will never work on WiFi, if its not possible to run wires then I argue its not possible for this guy to run 20 cameras.. something has to give.. most people whom come to these forums have a total wireless failure with as little as 2-4 cameras operating on the same frequency.
Last edited by a moderator:
Zxel
Getting the hang of it
I heartily agree that setting up a 20 camera wireless network is not a recommended thing, only should be used if there is NO WAY to use wired connections. I also agree it wont be a simple thing - but some like challenges.
Your bandwidth calculations I have a problem with, you assume that what is needed is high resolution / high FPS camera connectivity, and abbas did not specify the camera models or resolution/fps needed for his/her application.
We simply don't have enough information here on what the cameras are being used for, there are several ways you could get this to work on wifi, there are even specialized access points for this kind of setup - it is possible, just not recommended/desired unless absolutely needed.
TechBill
Known around here
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,772
- Reaction score
- 1,182
We have 3 WiFi cameras installed in our home that works great for us however we are using on-board memory card so we don't really stream that much from the camera itself.
Only time WiFi get used is when I am at my desk, I use a monitoring software and stream from all 3 cameras but all still save the recording to the on-board memory card. Anytime I am not at my desk, it would shut down the monitoring software and hibernate. Also when we need to download a recording from camera and save it locally which is rare. And if we are remotely viewing the cameras.
WiFi is doable if your not streaming from all 20 camera at once and if camera have on-board memory card to save recording on. You still can use monitor software but more camera you use then you need to use lower resolution to stream to save bandwidth on WiFi or set up more WiFi access points. Our cameras settings allows us change settings on what resolution to save to the recordings and what resolution to stream at.
Bill
Only time WiFi get used is when I am at my desk, I use a monitoring software and stream from all 3 cameras but all still save the recording to the on-board memory card. Anytime I am not at my desk, it would shut down the monitoring software and hibernate. Also when we need to download a recording from camera and save it locally which is rare. And if we are remotely viewing the cameras.
WiFi is doable if your not streaming from all 20 camera at once and if camera have on-board memory card to save recording on. You still can use monitor software but more camera you use then you need to use lower resolution to stream to save bandwidth on WiFi or set up more WiFi access points. Our cameras settings allows us change settings on what resolution to save to the recordings and what resolution to stream at.
Bill
I'm sorry guys for high-jacking a thread but I have a question related to this.
Bill, can you describe your set up like what cameras you used, monitoring software you have and implementation. Thanks.
I've been an occasional visitor here and it's just now I felt the need to register. I'm in the process of trying to decide on how to set-up a 3-5 ip home camera system. I'm hoping to do it via wifi (if I can).
Thanks again.
TechBill
Known around here
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,772
- Reaction score
- 1,182
The camera we are using are Sharx cameras - http://www.amazon.com/Sharx-Security-SCNC3905-Definition-Weatherproof/dp/B00IAZ3R0C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417561495&sr=8-1&keywords=sharx
The camera can do PoE or Wifi only using a power adapter, we are using WiFi because we are renting the house we live in right now.
The power adapter cord that came with the camera is about 10 feet long and thin enough that we are able roll down the windows and run the cord over the top of the window then shut the windows on the cord. The power adapter is plugged into the outlet next to the windows inside the house.
We do not monitor our camera much but we do use the motion detect which would email us a screenshot each time a motion is detect and also record to the on-board storage memory card.
When I do monitor my camera from my desk to watch for delivery person / postworker or I am expecting someone, I would either use the cheap-o monitor software that came with the camera and it does the job fine since I am not using it to record or anything else. it have a small memory and CPU usage. We can use any video player that support RSTP streaming like VPN or Quicktime but you would need to open a player for each camera you want to monitor.
There are several different Android and Apple monitor apps that works fine with Sharx cameras.
What I like about Sharx camera is that they offer several different type of RSTP streaming to monitor from, I want to record to my on-board memory storage in high resolution and I can use a low resolution RSTP to monitor from so I have a better fps to monitor from and it does not effect my high resolution recordings that are saved on-board.
I have tried Blue Iris which works fine but it eat up a lot of CPU and memory if you use it to detect motion and record plus you would need to monitor it from a high resolution RSTP and if you monitor it via wireless then the more cameras you monitor at the same time will start to eat up your WiFi bandwidth. I ran the trial version and have not brought it yet. I haven't found no need to buy it.
A free source monitor/recorder is iSPY which keep crashing my Windows 7 with BSOD so I stopped using it. There other monitor program I have tried out but I can't remember them,
So far I am using the cheap-o monitor software that came with the camera and if I spot something in the video and need better resolution to view it then I would either log in the web browser viewer or start up the Quicktime player and connect to the high resolution RSTP stream to view it.
When we buy our own home in the future then we will install Ethernet and use PoE or buy one of them smaller bullet camera with no wifi, maybe Hikvision etc. But we know we want on-board recording and we love how it work out for us not having to have a DVR or NVR running in some closet so all of our future camera will have to be self-contained cameras.
One negative is that motion detect using video isn't perfect, like when it snowing or raining at night time then it triggering motion alarm because it reflecting off the IR at close range making it look like a big object in the camera view.
Sharx camera does offer alarm input that we can connect a different type of motion to it and disable the video motion. We plan do doing this and we are currently researching on which motion switch to get for it.
We also may disable on-board IR and buy a separate IR and mount it away from the camera so it not reflecting object back into the camera lens. Daytime snowing or raining does not trigger the motion detect since it not very visible as it is with IR at nighttime.
Bill
As an Amazon Associate IPCamTalk earns from qualifying purchases.
Thank you very much for the comprehensive explanation Bill. I really do appreciate it.
I'm leaning towards the Hikvision camera series (combo of DS-2CD3332-I and possibly DS-2CD2432F-IW) mainly because they are reasonable in price and good firmware out of the box. It's just down to how I implement it either wifi or powerline internet. Wifey basically just limited me to these two (so no POE for me). Good thing is the camera positions that I identified are within a yard or two of a power outlet. I'm also looking a low degree of monitoring similar to what you described like on-camera recording or NAS recording at most (no stand alone NVR or Blue iris-running pc maybe in the future).
Again thank you very much.
I'm leaning towards the Hikvision camera series (combo of DS-2CD3332-I and possibly DS-2CD2432F-IW) mainly because they are reasonable in price and good firmware out of the box. It's just down to how I implement it either wifi or powerline internet. Wifey basically just limited me to these two (so no POE for me). Good thing is the camera positions that I identified are within a yard or two of a power outlet. I'm also looking a low degree of monitoring similar to what you described like on-camera recording or NAS recording at most (no stand alone NVR or Blue iris-running pc maybe in the future).
Again thank you very much.
fenderman
Staff member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2014
- Messages
- 36,901
- Reaction score
- 21,270
you cannot record to sd on the 3332...the 2432 is an indoor cam, but should be fine outdoors if protected from rain, but is not vandal resistant...
The 2532 (weak ir, if you have good lighing its not an issue) has an sd card slot as well as the 2732 (but is large)...you might consider a cheaper hikvision NVR with the 2332
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hikvision-DS-7104N-SN-P-with-4-Ethernet-ports-surveillance-DVR-NVR/1919007896.html
Another thing to consider is to have a professional wire puller pull the cable..these guys can do amazing runs often with no damage..in the long run it will be cheaper and WAY more stable.
You can make any camera wifi with a tiny wireless bridge...but powerline is a better solution...
The 2532 (weak ir, if you have good lighing its not an issue) has an sd card slot as well as the 2732 (but is large)...you might consider a cheaper hikvision NVR with the 2332
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hikvision-DS-7104N-SN-P-with-4-Ethernet-ports-surveillance-DVR-NVR/1919007896.html
Another thing to consider is to have a professional wire puller pull the cable..these guys can do amazing runs often with no damage..in the long run it will be cheaper and WAY more stable.
You can make any camera wifi with a tiny wireless bridge...but powerline is a better solution...
TechBill
Known around here
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,772
- Reaction score
- 1,182
If your going to record to a NAS then I would go wired or powerline adapters. I would avoid using WiFi or wireless for any off-camera recording.
I am not familiar with either brand but isn't 2432 an indoor model?
Bill
I am not familiar with either brand but isn't 2432 an indoor model?
Bill
Yup, 2432 is an indoor model. I'm kinda leaning into it mainly for its PIR and sd. Will most likely go with powerline internet but I'm also in the process of talking with a security/cabling guy for a quote on a couple of cable pulls. If not cost prohibitive I might just do it down the line.
My intended approach is to buy these decent Hikvision cameras first and initially set them up via combo of powerline and dedicated router (wifi) since I already have the needed stuff (from a recent office building closure sale I attended) and see how it goes from there. In case I find it inadequate then I'll follow what Fenderman suggested.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks Fenderman. I've seen all of the Hikvisions 3332, 2432, 2532 and 2732 operate and perform in person. They are all good cameras depending on the purpose. For my situation it seems like the 3332 and 2432 will fit the bill (i don't need my outdoor unit - which is the 3332- to record on camera). On the other hand I'll be placing the 2432s on my house's high ceiling in such I way the that I'd need (or the thief) a 15 footer ladder just to access the sd card.
The Hik NVR you pointed out really looks reasonable and with decent reviews. I will really consider it once if I decide to go to the NVR POE route.
Thanks again.
TechBill
Known around here
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2014
- Messages
- 1,772
- Reaction score
- 1,182
Keep in mind if you mount it too high then you'll get less of a face shot and more of a forehead to head shot which would be bad if the thief is wearing a hoodie.
I wouldn't go higher than 10 feet, I have one camera mounted at 12 feet but I am regretting that I mounted it too high now. I am going to lower it to about 10 feet during my Christmas break.
Bill
He he. You posted a very good point within seconds of each other.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, that's one of the very first thing I heard/ read when I started to plan for this set. I'm not sure why it got lost between the mix. Thanks guys for pointing that out.Yes, listen to techbill, he is spot on.
I really apologize to the OP for high-jacking his thread but I'd like to direct this to Fenderman: if you are not interested with the SD recording and wifi what would you pick as an INDOOR camera between the 3332 (for it's better low light capability, H.264 and SMB/CIFS NAS capability) and 2432 (for its PIR).
nayr
IPCT Contributor
for cameras at entry ways or monitoring approaches, the best height is just under average head height; and this varies from location to location.. People tend to look forward and down when they walk, even worse now with smartphones as people can walk around for miles without looking up.
in my experience people with there heads in the clouds are no threat.. height is best when combined with zoom to monitor objects from a distance and avoid close traffic from obscuring the view.. up close and personal, make it up close and personal, if possible.
in my experience people with there heads in the clouds are no threat.. height is best when combined with zoom to monitor objects from a distance and avoid close traffic from obscuring the view.. up close and personal, make it up close and personal, if possible.